Headsmack: Conversations with Misfits
The Headsmack Podcast with host Paul Povolni invites you to listen in on conversations with misfits, mavericks and trailblazers. Join us as we explore the life of difference-makers and those who have stumbled, fumbled and then soared.
Be inspired as they candidly share their journeys and the aha moments that changed everything.
Headsmack: Conversations with Misfits
Alyssa Aviles / Creative Growth Partner & Design Educator
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
Alyssa "Lyss" Aviles got rejected from a graphic design program, told her work was not good enough, and went on to design challenge funnels that helped generate hundreds of millions in revenue for some of the biggest names in marketing.
She is an award-winning funnel designer, branding expert, and official Canva and ClickFunnels Ambassador who spent 16 years turning a self-taught skill into a career that put her in the room with Tony Robbins, Daymond John, Lisa Nichols, and Les Brown.
In this conversation with Paul Povolni, Lyss breaks down the difference between a website and a funnel using an IKEA analogy you will not forget, explains her three-step branding framework of identity, story, and style, and gets honest about losing significant business to AI in a matter of months.
She also names the thing almost nobody in marketing is willing to say out loud: people are quietly trading their authenticity for automation, and audiences are starting to notice.
This is a conversation about creative resilience, branding that actually means something, and what it looks like to stay human in an industry racing to remove humans from the loop.
BIO:
Alyssa Aviles, known online as The Lovely Lyss, is an award-winning funnel designer, branding expert, and official Canva and ClickFunnels Ambassador with more than 16 years of creative experience. Rejected from her university's graphic design program, she taught herself the craft while working as a barista, painting guitars and shoes for extra money, and shooting weddings and brand portraits on the side, before earning a design degree at Valencia College and moving straight into agency offers and freelance work. Her career changed when she volunteered a full year of free design work for faith-based entrepreneur Pedro Adão, a decision that put her at the center of the challenge marketing movement as it exploded, leading to design work on challenges for Daymond John, Grant Cardone, Tony Robbins, Dean Graziosi, Lisa Nichols, Les Brown, Stu McLaren, and Ryan Deiss. Her challenge funnel work is credited with generating more than $150 million in client revenue across coaching, wellness, real estate, and other industries. She has also shot humanitarian photography for nonprofits, including work in Haiti after the earthquake, and is currently writing a book on branding built around her identity, story, and style framework. She works from the St. Petersburg, Florida area and can be found at thelovelylyss.com.
LINKS:
Paul Povolni (Voppa) is the founder of Voppa Creative and a creative leader with over 30 years of experience in brand strategy and design. Based in Jackson, Mississippi, he has worked with clients internationally, leading teams in award-winning branding while serving as a coach and speaker. Paul delivers workshops and keynotes on brand strategy, creative thinking, and organizational culture, and hosts The Headsmack Podcast: Conversations with Misfits. His work centers on helping organizations lead with Clarity, Creativity, and Culture.
Hey, welcome to the Head Smack podcast. name is Paul Povolni and I am excited to have another misfit with me. I have Alyssa Aviles. I think I said that right. I said it right while practicing and I think I might've said it wrong when I actually said it out loud again. So, Alyssa is best known as Liz and is a multi-passionate creative with over 16 years of experience. She's designed for well-known names in marketing and teachers, aspiring entrepreneurs to create their own graphics and funnels without the overwhelm.
Paul (00:39)
Liz, how you doing?
Alyssa Aviles (00:40)
I'm good. I'm so excited to be here with you.
Paul (00:43)
Yeah, I've been looking forward to this chat. We've kind of known each other for a while. We've kind of flown in the same circles. And so when it came time to think of somebody else I wanted to have a good chat with, I thought of you and I think it's going to be a great time together.
Alyssa Aviles (00:58)
Excited.
Paul (00:59)
Yeah. So the way you, you know, as you can see, I'm into superheroes and stuff. And so I love origin stories. And so I like to start off by kind of hearing a little bit about you.
Paul (01:09)
What's your origin story? How'd you get started and you can go as far back as you want.
Alyssa Aviles (01:14)
man, I I I
Paul (01:15)
you
Alyssa Aviles (01:16)
don't want to spend too much time on this, but you know, I've always been a creative kid since I came out of the womb. My parents always had me in art classes and painting classes and photography classes and anything creative. They were just like put her in, just constantly have
Paul (01:31)
Yeah, yeah.
Alyssa Aviles (01:33)
her doing all that stuff. And I was very colorful and artsy as a child. And and of course they they, you know, dressed me up in these very tie-dye outfits and
Alyssa Aviles (01:42)
really fun nerdy stuff. I loved Disney growing up. And I I grew up as a PBS kid and literally learned about literature from a dog named Wishbone and you know loved reading
Paul (01:52)
Hahaha
Alyssa Aviles (01:52)
Rainbow. Like my I I love and like admire my parents so much for raising me like that. And not really shying away from being like, she's like, you know, a little artsy creative kid. They were like, let's actually fuel her and teach her and let her play with this sort
Paul (02:08)
Yeah, wow, yeah.
Alyssa Aviles (02:09)
of stuff.
Alyssa Aviles (02:10)
And my brothers weren't really like that. Like there might my parents enrolled my brothers in a few other things, but I was very artsy in middle school, high school. I was constantly doodling on things and painting things and wanted to be different. I was, you know, I grew up in a primary Christian school. And so you had uniforms and you had to do things a certain way.
Paul (02:28)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Alyssa Aviles (02:29)
And as a misfit and rebel, I was like, screw that. I don't want that. And so
Paul (02:35)
That's awesome. Yeah.
Alyssa Aviles (02:36)
I tried to do whatever I could to like.
Alyssa Aviles (02:38)
stick out and stand out and I got a detention a few times for wearing baggy cargo pants and for,
Paul (02:45)
Yeah, yeah.
Alyssa Aviles (02:46)
you know, I one time I dyed my hair. I I have grays now. I've I've let the grays grow and you know we call this wisdom. But back in the day I I had these like
Paul (02:54)
I've got plenty of that, yeah.
Alyssa Aviles (02:57)
back in the day I had these like chunky highlights and I thought it was so cool. And then the school was like, no, you gotta fix that. Like that's how it was, you know, back then.
Paul (03:06)
Yeah, yeah.
Alyssa Aviles (03:07)
So I didn't like shy away from that. I was really bullied for it and went from being a suicidal outcast kid to eventually leaning into who God has created me to be and just loving creativity and encouraging others to be creative and finding joy in the process. So went to college, thought I was gonna go into advertising. I was like, this is gonna be really fun. Sat in my first advertising class and I was like, no, I wanna be the one to design the campaign.
Alyssa Aviles (03:36)
Like to actually like visually design, you know, like what you when
Paul (03:37)
Right, yeah. Yeah, yeah.
Alyssa Aviles (03:40)
you and I really love doing. So I needed to get in the graphic design program, but back then YouTube wasn't a thing. Like it it
Paul (03:47)
Yeah.
Alyssa Aviles (03:48)
was, you know, it was just starting to kind of come on the scene, but like Googling, how do I design a logo? That was not a thing back then.
Paul (03:56)
Right, right, right, right.
Alyssa Aviles (03:57)
So I was part of a faith-based organization and they knew I was always drawing and doing stuff, and they were like, look.
Alyssa Aviles (04:04)
We will buy you Adobe Creative Suites. If you teach yourself how to do graphic design, you make posters for us. We'll pay for the software, which back then I think it was, I think it was still expensive. I think it was like seven or eight hundred dollars, right? For all remember all the CDs. Yep. Uh-huh.
Paul (04:15)
was super expensive. Yeah. Yeah, it came like on 100 CDs or something. I had to install one at a time.
Alyssa Aviles (04:25)
Yep. And so you know, I was a broke college kid and I was like, yeah, let's do it. Bet.
Alyssa Aviles (04:31)
You know, like let's do it. So I
Paul (04:32)
Yeah, yeah.
Alyssa Aviles (04:33)
started teaching myself how to do graphic design. Now at this time, I'm teaching myself how to do it. I'm taking art classes in hopes of getting in the graphic design program. I'm working at a coffee shop as a barista. I am painting on guitars and shoes just to make extra money.
Paul (04:49)
wow.
Alyssa Aviles (04:50)
And my dad had also given me a camera. So then I'm also doing photography just for the fun of it. Like when I say I'm multi-passionate, you can tell I'm multi-passionate.
Paul (04:59)
That's wonderful, yeah.
Alyssa Aviles (05:01)
And so, you know, while I'm doing all these things at the cafe I worked at, we had jazz nights. It was my favorite night of the week. And there was an amazing trumpet player. And we built this friendship. And he was like, hey, can you take headshots of me? Then it became, you know, hey, take photos of my, you know, girlfriend and I, then fiance and I. And then he asked me to shoot his wedding. And I was like, bro, I've never shot a wedding a day in my life.
Paul (05:26)
Ha ha
Paul (05:26)
ha ha ha ha ha ha
Alyssa Aviles (05:27)
I don't, I don't, I don't know about
Alyssa Aviles (05:28)
this. are you sure? This is like a really important day. He's like,
Paul (05:32)
Yeah.
Alyssa Aviles (05:33)
I love who you are. I see the value in what you do, and you deserve to be paid for what you do. I really want to pay you to shoot my wedding. Cause at this point, I was doing photography just for fun. And it was
Paul (05:44)
Right, right.
Alyssa Aviles (05:45)
the very first time that somebody saw saw that and and showed me the potential of.
Alyssa Aviles (05:53)
Like I can make this a career. Like this could be a service I could offer to other people. So I shot his wedding for I think it was like $125, which I'm sure wedding photographers are like, my gosh, you know. it
Paul (06:05)
Yeah, yeah.
Alyssa Aviles (06:06)
it was a ton of fun. And that started the entrepreneur thing for me. Like, I don't really consider the painting on guitars and shoes thing like entrepreneur. That was like, I need some quick money, I'll do it, you know.
Paul (06:16)
Right, right.
Alyssa Aviles (06:17)
But the photography was different. And so I started shooting weddings on the side and
Alyssa Aviles (06:21)
I needed a website. So then I taught myself how to make my own website and I need a business card. So now I've got all these different things going on where I'm actually making money as a photographer. I'm still teaching myself design, you know, like still painting on the side. And it it was just so much fun, but it opened up so many different doors and opportunities for me. So eventually, long story short, applied for the graphic design program at the school I was at. They denied me, they said my work sucked.
Alyssa Aviles (06:49)
And I you know, I couldn't yeah, and I spent like two years in art
Paul (06:50)
Wow. Brutal.
Alyssa Aviles (06:53)
classes. I know, right? it was so br
Paul (06:55)
Well, how could they even judge that?
Paul (06:57)
that really seems unfair. Like, aren't you a school that's
Alyssa Aviles (06:59)
Right.
Paul (07:00)
supposed to teach me to be a better designer if I'm not, you know, that doesn't make any sense. Yeah. Wow.
Alyssa Aviles (07:03)
Exactly. Exactly.
Alyssa Aviles (07:06)
And it's crazy because like they judged me based on like traditional art stuff. Like at that point it wasn't I didn't learn anything about graphic design besides what I was being taught. So like or what I was learning myself. So they didn't have a chance to see any of what I was designing or anything like that. But I was devastated, man. And I was like, I don't know. I guess I'm gonna have to, you know, lean into the photographer thing still. But
Paul (07:29)
Yeah, yeah.
Alyssa Aviles (07:31)
I eventually graduated and was still kind of playing around with things, still doing the photography. And I was like, I don't want to give up on the design thing. Like, I really love doing this. It's a
Paul (07:41)
Yeah.
Alyssa Aviles (07:41)
lot of fun. I really want to learn this. So I did eventually go to a community college. They had a two-year design program, Valencia College. And there they took me under their wings, taught me everything I needed to know. And before I graduated, I had job offers from agencies. I was already starting to freelance.
Paul (07:56)
Wow.
Alyssa Aviles (07:58)
It was a completely different, like,
Alyssa Aviles (08:00)
Pivot, right? And like they they
Paul (08:02)
Yeah, yeah.
Alyssa Aviles (08:03)
saw something that the other university couldn't. And I'm so grateful for like my professors and my teachers for like sitting down and taking time with me and guiding me and teaching me what they know because like I am who I am today because of the time and the love and encouragement that they poured into me in that in that season, you know? So
Paul (08:24)
Right, right.
Alyssa Aviles (08:26)
I left that that school. I was freelancing and still doing the photography thing on the side. At this point, I was no longer doing weddings. I was doing a brand portraiture. And I loved doing that. I loved like, you know, I would, I would probably like if you and I were friends back then, I'd be like, hey, let's hang out. I want to do a brand style like photo shoot for you. Let's do something nerdy. Let's go to the comic book
Paul (08:46)
Ha
Alyssa Aviles (08:46)
store and like, like, let's do something really fun, right? And
Paul (08:48)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Alyssa Aviles (08:49)
I loved doing photo shoots like that. And I really loved capturing people in their element.
Alyssa Aviles (08:55)
I also really love doing humanitarian stuff. So I was starting to shoot for some nonprofits and went to Haiti after the earthquake to take photos there and really just fell in love with like capturing people's stories. And so all of this was like really great. It was fun. But then there was one big problem, which was I didn't know anything about business. And so like, you know, you you know, like when
Paul (09:18)
Yes, Achilles heel of most creatives. Yeah.
Alyssa Aviles (09:22)
Right. It's like, you know, when you first start out, you're like, you're like so pumped, you're so excited, things are growing, but you don't know about starting an LLC or like, you know, paying taxes. And now granted, I did have help back then. I did set up an LLC and I did have somebody that was doing my taxes for me. I I was wise enough to know that I should not do that by myself.
Paul (09:42)
You
Alyssa Aviles (09:43)
But I still didn't know how to really successfully run a business. And so,
Alyssa Aviles (09:51)
Things were getting dire. I ended up working a full-time job where originally I was only supposed to be a graphic designer and then eventually became the person that did like everything. I don't know if you've ever been
Paul (10:01)
yeah, yeah.
Alyssa Aviles (10:02)
in a position like that.
Paul (10:04)
And I've seen those job descriptions for, know, looking for
Alyssa Aviles (10:07)
Drop job description.
Paul (10:10)
a designer that can, you know, do photography websites, know, code, illustration,
Alyssa Aviles (10:14)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Paul (10:17)
design, sushi. You know, like, it's like this impossible list of things that they expect to find in a creative.
Alyssa Aviles (10:26)
Right? It's wild. So that's what happened to me. And they didn't increase my pay. I started, I was working over time, and I started just having emotional breakdowns. Like we would go, John and I were dating back then, and we would go grocery shopping. I would randomly just break down in tears in the in the store. And then one time I went to a car dealership to help my brother, you know, choose a car. And I was like breaking down while he's like
Alyssa Aviles (10:52)
buying his first car. And you know, like I'm just like so emotional all the time because of the stress of what I was in.
Paul (10:54)
Wow, yeah. Yeah. Right, right.
Alyssa Aviles (10:59)
So my husband was like, look, you've got to bet on yourself. You gotta get out of this. And you know what? If we're in debt, we're in debt. You'll figure it out. You need it, you need to like go because I would rather and he's a mental health therapist. So he's like, I would rather see you take the time to rest and heal and us deal with this stuff. But then I know that you're capable of doing this. Like you've done it before.
Alyssa Aviles (11:22)
And so
Paul (11:22)
Yeah.
Alyssa Aviles (11:22)
he had a lot of faith in me. So I quit that job, started freelancing, living paycheck paycheck to paycheck, feast or famine, very common, very common thing for creatives. I feel
Paul (11:34)
Right.
Alyssa Aviles (11:35)
like, and you and I can talk about this later. I feel like we're starting to kind of see this cycle a bit again just because of how quickly the market is shifting. But you know, I so I did that and I was like, I don't know what I'm gonna do. It was really tough. And I met with a friend of mine for lunch, her name's Liz Lopez.
Alyssa Aviles (11:52)
And she at the time was learning from Lisa Nichols. And so I sat with her and she's like, you need a mentor in your life. And I was like, okay, well, mentors are expensive. I don't want one. I'm broke. Like, and
Paul (12:03)
Right, yeah, yeah, yeah. Right, right.
Alyssa Aviles (12:07)
and you know, I I don't know about you, but like back then there wasn't really any creative that was kind of like doing coaching or like mentoring for like business.
Paul (12:17)
Right, right.
Alyssa Aviles (12:18)
Like I felt it was fine for some some people, but
Alyssa Aviles (12:21)
I didn't really see anybody in the space like doing like what you and I would see now in the marketing and coaching space. So I I looked around on Facebook. I thought I saw one that I really liked, but I joined her program and she wouldn't let people talk to each other in the program, which was kind of weird. It was $97
Paul (12:37)
Wow.
Alyssa Aviles (12:37)
a month. And it was really that you were just getting like one call with her and access to her courses. And I was like, I don't, I don't know about this. And
Paul (12:45)
Yeah.
Alyssa Aviles (12:45)
then one day I'm doom scrolling on Facebook. I come across an ad from a guy named Pedro O'Dale.
Alyssa Aviles (12:51)
The copy really kind of pulled out to me. And I
Paul (12:54)
Yeah, yeah.
Alyssa Aviles (12:55)
go to his funnel and I'm like, his funnel looks like crap. I go I I always like to Google things you know, before like naturally you and I like when we're working with a client, we research. You know, like
Paul (13:07)
Right, right, right.
Alyssa Aviles (13:09)
we're looking things up, we're trying to see. So I'm looking him up. I don't really see anything besides the fact that he's won a two comic club award, which for anyone who's not familiar,
Alyssa Aviles (13:18)
That means you've made seven figures in a funnel on a software called ClickFunnels. So I saw that he that he had this award and I'm like, man, homie's made seven, you know, a million bucks and like he doesn't even have a website. Like, come on. So like I'm like judging the hardest right off the bat. And then his
Paul (13:37)
So how did you know that
Paul (13:38)
his website was bad? Like where did that training or where did that learning come from?
Alyssa Aviles (13:43)
So it he didn't even have a site. That's the worst part. Like, like he had he had the funnel. He had a funnel, but like like a website, like a, you know, a traditional
Paul (13:47)
I thought you said you looked at a funnel of his. Okay, okay, okay. Yeah.
Alyssa Aviles (13:52)
website. He didn't have that. But the funnel, okay. So that's that's actually a really good question because I didn't really know what a funnel was. Like when I saw that. Like for me, I was thinking like it's a it's a landing page. You know, I'm looking at it.
Paul (14:06)
Yeah, yeah.
Alyssa Aviles (14:07)
And I mean, I I I don't know if I could pull it up from the archives. I could show you. It was, it was
Paul (14:11)
Ha ha ha.
Alyssa Aviles (14:12)
just like
Alyssa Aviles (14:13)
A white blank page. It had a logo that he had made for a hundred X. It was just like a font. And it was like this brush styled, you know, X and typewriter styled one hundred. And it had a photo of him. And then it had all the copy was in this font called caveat brush. Do you know which one that is? Look
Paul (14:32)
I could imagine. Yeah. Yeah.
Alyssa Aviles (14:36)
it look it up and you're gonna be like, my gosh. Like
Paul (14:38)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Alyssa Aviles (14:40)
not
Alyssa Aviles (14:41)
not good for screens, not legible. And I was like, this is like, this is not appealing at all. But the copy really like stood out. So I was like, you know what, whatever. Let me fill out the application and like try to get in this like he was running a free 30 day masterclass, which we now call challenges these days, right? So I I fill it out and I go to submit my info and it shows an error.
Alyssa Aviles (15:07)
I'm like, man, I just spent like 15 minutes fill filling
Alyssa Aviles (15:10)
out those applications there. So I message him on Facebook and I'm like, hey, just letting you know your website's broken. He's like, my gosh, I'm so sorry. Like, here's the link to my group. Get in. Don't worry about it. You know, whatever. So I get in, do the 30 days, and I see my life already changing because now I I find a community that I'm like.
Alyssa Aviles (15:32)
I I'm in love with the community. These are my people. Like we're going through very similar things. And not everybody was a creative, but I felt like we were going through very similar situations. It was faith-based. and I really liked Pedro's teaching style. And so he made an offer at the end of that 30 days. I I want to say it was like I think it was $1,500 back then. And I I was like dead broke. I I'm, you know, I'm like,
Paul (15:55)
Hmm.
Alyssa Aviles (15:56)
I'm like way in credit card debt. I'm like, there's just no way. But
Alyssa Aviles (16:01)
John saw how encouraged I was. And he was like, sell whatever you need to. Like sell the couch, sell the motorcycle, sell whatever you need to in this house. Like, it's okay
Paul (16:10)
Wow, wow.
Alyssa Aviles (16:11)
if we go into additional debt. Sell what you need, get in that group. So I did just that. Went on Facebook Marketplace, sold what I could, got the money.
Paul (16:18)
Hahaha
Alyssa Aviles (16:20)
and and I joined I joined what was a hundred X back in the day. So a few months later, he decides, like, hey, let's all go to California and meet up for the first time, which it
Alyssa Aviles (16:31)
Whenever I talk about it, I'm like, this does sound really culty. You know? It's like I you know, like I just know these people online and that's it. Yeah,
Paul (16:33)
Let's get matching clothing and shoes and yeah.
Alyssa Aviles (16:40)
yeah. And then drink this cool aid. you know, like
Paul (16:42)
Hahaha.
Alyssa Aviles (16:43)
like I'm like, this is kind of culty, but but again, like I was already starting to get to know the community online and there was just something so different about it than what I had experienced before.
Alyssa Aviles (16:55)
And so flew out to California and met everyone. I'm not gonna go too into the details, but I got to know Pedro and Suzette and the family a little bit more, ended up staying at their house. they were super hospitable and generous with giving me a place to stay because my plans had fallen through. And I'm like, who does that? Like, I'm a stranger, you know, like
Paul (17:14)
Yeah, wow.
Alyssa Aviles (17:15)
they're a Portuguese family, so hosp hospitality is a really big thing.
Paul (17:18)
Yeah.
Alyssa Aviles (17:19)
and you know, that night, like I really felt like the Lord was like.
Alyssa Aviles (17:24)
Give him a year of design for free. And I was like, that's insane. Like, who does
Paul (17:28)
Wow.
Alyssa Aviles (17:29)
that? Nobody does that. Especially, especially
Paul (17:31)
Yeah, yeah, right.
Alyssa Aviles (17:33)
when somebody has money, you know? And like I'm I'm a broke starving artist. Like what? But I I yeah, but he's got two comic
Paul (17:37)
Right, right. And he's got two commas. Yeah.
Alyssa Aviles (17:42)
club award. And and this is before, you know, spoiler alert, Pedro ends up being he ends up becoming really famous. Okay. But this is before he ends up, you know, getting famous and whatnot. So
Alyssa Aviles (17:53)
I I attend his teachings. It's very clear he doesn't have a designer. He is posting, you know, Word documents inside the group. And I'm like, man, like, you know when you see something and you're just like, this could be so much better. And like you see the vision in your head and you're like, I know how to bring this to life. So I started doing that.
Paul (18:11)
Yeah, yeah. I think as creatives,
Paul (18:14)
we can't help that. Like everything we look at, we judge. I think we go to a restaurant and
Alyssa Aviles (18:18)
That's so true. It's so true.
Paul (18:20)
we look at the menu and it's like, the layout. mean, the spacing, the way it flows. I mean, yeah, we are
Alyssa Aviles (18:27)
Yes.
Paul (18:28)
judgmental by default because that's kind of the realm we live in. You know, it's kind of like a copywriter. A copywriter edits everything
Alyssa Aviles (18:31)
Yes. Yeah. huh.
Paul (18:36)
they read, you know.
Alyssa Aviles (18:37)
That's true.
Paul (18:37)
and so
Paul (18:38)
with a designer where the same way is, is we just,
Alyssa Aviles (18:40)
Mm-hmm.
Paul (18:41)
it's not, it's not judgment. It's just. look at things critically
Alyssa Aviles (18:46)
Yeah.
Paul (18:47)
because that's just the way we're wired. We're wired to look
Alyssa Aviles (18:49)
Yeah.
Paul (18:50)
for those things for balance and composition and contrast
Alyssa Aviles (18:52)
Mm-hmm.
Paul (18:53)
and all the, all the laws of good design. You know, it's, hard to turn that
Alyssa Aviles (18:56)
Uh-huh.
Paul (18:57)
off.
Alyssa Aviles (18:58)
It's so true. It is so, so true. So I I began to take what he was teaching and I started making Word document or not Word documents. I started taking the Word documents. I started making it look better. So I started making these really well-designed PDFs and Canva. And I started making some wallpaper graphics with his quotes and like for your desktop and for your phone. And I just started doing this in the community for free. And every time I posted, engagement went up. People were like, my gosh, I love this. Thank you so much.
Alyssa Aviles (19:26)
Pedro noticed and called me one day.
Paul (19:27)
That's awesome, wow.
Alyssa Aviles (19:29)
Right. And so he called me one day and he's like, hey, you know, I kind of see that you've been like posting this stuff. Like, you know, like I I I love it. And I I thought I I was in trouble. I was like, shoot. Like he's gonna, he's probably big mad that I'm doing this, you know. So I yeah. So
Paul (19:45)
What are you doing to my cool documents?
Alyssa Aviles (19:49)
I'm like, hey, hey, hey, like I hope you don't mind. Like I promise it's not leaving this group, it's staying in inside the community.
Alyssa Aviles (19:55)
And so he's like, Well, you know, I can you design for me? Like, can I pay you? I like can we like send me your rates? I want to pay you and like I want to hire you to do some stuff. So I'm like, well, in the back of my mind, I'm like, the Lord told me if he needs help, serve him for a year. So I'm like, hey, don't worry about it. Let's just see how this relationship goes. Like, I wanna see, I want to show you what I can do. And so I did that. And I I have to tell people, I'm like, he did offer to pay me for the year. Okay. And I
Paul (20:24)
Hahaha
Alyssa Aviles (20:25)
Like I politely declined it every single time. And then when the year came up, I did actually bail home quite a bit. But but like
Paul (20:32)
Yeah, yeah.
Alyssa Aviles (20:33)
that was such a learning and growing experience for me. And also during that time, as you know, like when COVID happened and the pandemic happened, like Pedro was starting to do online challenges because Russell Brenson had already been doing them at that time. And Pedro kind of took the model, tr tweaked a few things, made it better.
Alyssa Aviles (20:54)
And he was one of the first online marketers that was making seven figures on the back end of a challenge, which at that time was completely unheard of. Like that was
Paul (21:02)
Yeah, yeah.
Alyssa Aviles (21:03)
just like, whoa, what the heck? Like, how is that even possible? So he
Paul (21:07)
Explain to somebody that's listening what the back end of the challenge means.
Alyssa Aviles (21:11)
okay, cool. Yeah. So for anyone who's not familiar with challenge marketing, I mean, you've probably seen it in some sort of capacity online.
Alyssa Aviles (21:18)
But essentially, a challenge is a time-based online event. Well, sometimes it could be in person too, but it's a time-based online event where you are given a challenge to focus on one thing. And every day you attend this challenge, you're gonna learn about this one thing broken up into little bite-sized pieces because the goal is to give you wins every single day. And the goal for us is we wanna build.
Alyssa Aviles (21:46)
know, like, and trust. And this is one of the fastest ways to do it is challenges allow you to share your expertise with other people. They get to experience you in a way that they may have never experienced you before. And you fall in love with them. And then at the end of the challenge, you get invited to take the next step with that person. And that can look different for so many different people. You might go to a membership at the end of a challenge. You might be offered to purchase a course at the end of the challenge.
Alyssa Aviles (22:15)
You might get offered to join a coaching program for a certain amount of time. It there's so many different ways that you could run a challenge and send people on the back end. So that's what I'm referred to on the back end is like the transformation on the back end of that challenge and that next offer step that you are encouraged to take. So that that was a really big deal back then to make seven figures on the back end of it. And he created a faith-based community, was really growing that. So that got Russell Brunson's attention.
Alyssa Aviles (22:45)
And then all of a sudden, things like things like blew up. It
Paul (22:48)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Alyssa Aviles (22:49)
it honestly seemed like overnight. And and I was his designer. So I had to go along for the ride. And and
Paul (22:57)
Hahaha
Alyssa Aviles (22:58)
and thankfully before this happened, he had been encouraged me because I was doing website design. He encouraged me start learning funnels. Like learn everything you can from Russell Brunson. Start playing in click funnels. And thank God I did because
Paul (23:11)
Hahaha.
Alyssa Aviles (23:13)
like things
Alyssa Aviles (23:14)
Things shifted super fast overnight. And all of a sudden we are doing challenges with people like Damon John from Shark Tank, Grant Cardone, Tony Robbins and Dean Graziosi, Lisa Nichols, so full circle moment. My friend was coaching
Paul (23:30)
Wow.
Alyssa Aviles (23:30)
for Lisa Nichols, and now I'm designing a challenge for Lisa Nichols,
Paul (23:34)
Wow, wow.
Alyssa Aviles (23:35)
Les Brown, gosh, well, Stu McLaren, Ryan Dice. I we've
Alyssa Aviles (23:41)
We've done so many challenges with so many different people in different formats and it it has just been absolutely a wild journey and a wild ride. And and I was the one that really like there were no other challenge funnels back then or challenge things to model off of. So Pedro and I were just winging this. Like, let's see if this works. Let's see if that
Paul (24:01)
Wow, wow, yeah, yeah.
Alyssa Aviles (24:03)
works, you know? and and it is kind of fun to think that way. I'm like, my gosh, like that is kind of crazy. Like we kind of pioneered the
Paul (24:10)
The kind of pioneering
Paul (24:11)
and trailblazing. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Alyssa Aviles (24:12)
Yeah, and developing, you
Alyssa Aviles (24:14)
know. So it's been fun. It's been a wild ride. But honestly, like that that's kind of led me to where I'm at now because I started doing more funnels. I started to I don't wanna say I I've always kept the branding and design part of me. I still absolutely love that. But what I started to kind of shift more into was the marketing side of things, which I feel like
Alyssa Aviles (24:37)
You do the same thing. Like you, you're you love I like I see all your posts. You love marketing and like you're starting to do more AI
Paul (24:41)
You
Alyssa Aviles (24:42)
stuff and whatnot. And I really feel like designers have to make this shift more into understanding marketing and more into understanding psychology and funnels and all the different things. So I don't work for Pedro full time anymore. I was like a contractor then full time. Then I was on retainer for him. And now I just get called in every so often for certain projects. But
Alyssa Aviles (25:05)
I I'm doing my own thing. I'm currently reevaluating what I want to do. We were just briefly talking about this before on
Paul (25:10)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Alyssa Aviles (25:12)
the call because AI has completely shifted the the game today. And so yeah,
Paul (25:16)
Right, right.
Alyssa Aviles (25:17)
that that's the long origin story. The the short long origin
Paul (25:20)
That's amazing. That's amazing. No, I love that.
Paul (25:24)
It's always good to hear people's origin stories because you kind of see them, you know, where they're at now. And you're like, well, that's so unattainable. You know, they've just, they're just magic.
Alyssa Aviles (25:32)
Mm-hmm.
Paul (25:32)
They're just got something about them. And then you hear somebody's story and you realize, you know, it's a journey sometimes. And it's about those
Alyssa Aviles (25:38)
Yeah.
Paul (25:39)
random responses to a Facebook post. It's those connections. It's those moments of, you know,
Paul (25:46)
decision that kind of lead you
Alyssa Aviles (25:48)
huh.
Paul (25:48)
to where you're at. And it's not always a clear path. It's not always a perfect path. And it's not always a straight path, you know. And so
Alyssa Aviles (25:54)
Yeah.
Paul (25:55)
it's great hearing those stories because that encourages somebody else in the space that's like, okay, well, you know, I think I could do it too. You know, I've got those moments as well. So when it comes
Alyssa Aviles (26:01)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Paul (26:04)
to, know, you've designed a lot of funnels and I don't want to spend a ton of time on this, but I do want to talk about funnels and are they still a thing?
Paul (26:15)
And what makes a good funnel? that's probably a too long conversation we could have on a podcast, but you know, is there something that you could share with somebody that they can maybe do that evaluation that you did for him? You know, yours was mostly aesthetically,
Alyssa Aviles (26:27)
Yeah. Yeah.
Paul (26:29)
but you know, now that you've done funnels, you know, what would you say makes a good funnel and makes it effective?
Alyssa Aviles (26:35)
That's a really good question. And you're right. I feel like you and I could dive into a whole episode talking about, you know, funnels
Paul (26:41)
Yeah.
Alyssa Aviles (26:42)
and funnels are fun. And it's funny because I talk about it every so often on my profile, and people are still like, I don't understand a funnel at all. So I'm gonna just take a little bit of time to explain what a funnel is for those of you who are like, Yeah. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Yeah.
Paul (26:56)
Right, because some people think landing page, website, funnel are the same thing. They're interchangeable,
Paul (27:01)
but they're very different things.
Alyssa Aviles (27:04)
Or they think it's like funnel cake, or you know, like or like
Paul (27:07)
hahahaha
Alyssa Aviles (27:09)
my parents still don't understand what a funnel is, or I've had my neighbors like, what what do you do exactly? So that all right, so there's websites, landing pages, and funnels. And everyone's really familiar with websites. Typically, when you start a business, you're encouraged to have a website. And I still encourage people, yes, have a website, but it is also really important to have a funnel because
Alyssa Aviles (27:32)
Websites are like informational brochures and funnels are very intentionally well-designed customer journeys. So you think about Walmart versus IKEA. When you go to Walmart, you walk in and you could choose your own adventure. You could do whatever the heck you want.
Paul (27:45)
Right.
Alyssa Aviles (27:46)
You could go anywhere you want in the store. But you go to IKEA, and what do they do? They have an escalator that goes up the staircase and they encourage you to walk through the showroom. Now you can take some shortcuts, but you get the point where it's like you they guide you along the way in the store.
Paul (28:01)
Right, right.
Paul (28:02)
It's a controlled experience, yeah.
Alyssa Aviles (28:02)
And then when you exactly.
Alyssa Aviles (28:04)
And then when you go downstairs, you go section by section. And it's like, yeah, I do need this light bulb. And yeah, I actually need this like shelf too. And yeah, I also need that. Like
Paul (28:16)
Right, right.
Alyssa Aviles (28:16)
you start realizing like you're being upsold into other things as you're going through IKEA. So a funnel is exactly that. It's a series of steps that you are taking a stranger on.
Alyssa Aviles (28:29)
To hopefully encouraging them to become a customer of yours. And there's so many different funnels out there. There's different formats, different strategies. You've got book funnels and membership funnels and challenge funnels and webinar funnels. But I always encourage people to consider how you can add a funnel in your business because it is so intentional with highlighting one thing at a time and having one CTA.
Alyssa Aviles (28:57)
So, you know, like if you go on a website, typically you have your navigation at the top. It's got, you know, six different options up there. And then you're looking on the home page and it might have like three or four options there. You might go on there and sure, you might get the information that you need. But in some cases, like you're mentioning with you know, restaurants and looking at menus before, you might get overwhelmed or like, I don't
Paul (29:18)
Right.
Alyssa Aviles (29:18)
really know if I should do this. But a funnel is like,
Alyssa Aviles (29:21)
Here's your problem. We totally get you. We have the solution. Here's what could happen if you take our solution. Look at all the other people and what they've done. So you could kind of see right off the bat, like, all right, I'm way more aware of this. I can see that they know what they're talking about and I'm ready to take the next step. So
Paul (29:40)
Yeah.
Alyssa Aviles (29:41)
that that's why I love funnels. And, you know, I
Alyssa Aviles (29:45)
I encourage people to take the time to look and see what other people are doing in their businesses. I encourage people to test out funnels. Russell calls it funnel hacking. You know, I like to go through funnels and buy things just to see how they have it structured and what they're doing and to take note of what they're doing so I can apply it to other clients as well. But what makes a really good funnel is when you branding, I think is a really huge part of this.
Alyssa Aviles (30:13)
but I also think when you really understand what your customer needs. So it's not just like the branding part of it, but it's really honing into like one solution that you're like, I've got this in the bag, like I'm the pro expert at this.
Paul (30:29)
Right, right.
Alyssa Aviles (30:30)
When you can get really clear on the messaging for that thing, that's what's really gonna make a funnel work. And it funnels can be super ugly, but if you've got like that core messaging, that core offer, you'll be fine.
Paul (30:42)
Right,
Paul (30:42)
right. Yeah. You, you clearly understand the person's problem. You clearly
Alyssa Aviles (30:46)
Mm-hmm.
Paul (30:46)
show how you can solve that problem and you clearly
Alyssa Aviles (30:49)
Yeah.
Paul (30:49)
say, this is the one choice you have, you know?
Alyssa Aviles (30:52)
Yeah.
Paul (30:53)
and whereas a website, you know, is pretty much, well here click on, you know, these five links across the top. And as you scroll down, you can go
Alyssa Aviles (30:59)
Mm-hmm.
Paul (30:59)
bounce here and bounce there and bounce there. But the funnel is very much, you know, you have one decision at the end of this. Yes or no. Are you in, you know, have we articulated your problem? Well, is it, you know, have you
Paul (31:11)
Do you realize we can solve this? Okay, now make a decision. What do you want? And do you
Alyssa Aviles (31:15)
Yeah.
Paul (31:15)
think that for most people they make an error in their marketing by sending people to a website instead of a funnel?
Alyssa Aviles (31:24)
Think so because you know, when I was a website designer, I saw that I I still see the value in websites, but the biggest thing with the funnel is that you are capturing that person's information, where a lot of websites you don't necessarily have that unless you add in a pop-up of some sort to encourage people to get on the email list or put your name in email to get a coupon code, right? Technically, that is a funnel. and so
Paul (31:49)
Yeah, yeah.
Alyssa Aviles (31:50)
But a lot of people forget to do that on their website. So I you know, that's the other thing I kind of forgot to mention about a funnel is you're intentionally doing this and and creating a system where you're getting that person's information so you can follow up with them, you can nurture them, you can offer them other offers that you have. You don't have to be constantly emailing them, selling them stuff. Guys, I email my list like once every four months. But you know, like I'm a d
Paul (32:15)
hahahaha
Alyssa Aviles (32:18)
I'm not an email expert.
Alyssa Aviles (32:19)
But like,
Paul (32:19)
Yeah.
Alyssa Aviles (32:20)
you know, like, but I love to encourage my people when I can or I'll let them know, like, hey, Canva just did this, you should be aware of this. And so I think that's a really big difference too with like websites and funnels is that you're creating a system with a funnel where a website really is more of just like you need information, you're curious, there's no urgency to really take the next step on a website.
Paul (32:42)
Yeah, yeah. And I think you could probably get pretty nerdy with this and even some of those steps along the way, because it's not always a single funnel with a single action, but it's getting them
Alyssa Aviles (32:53)
Mm-hmm.
Paul (32:54)
to put in information that then takes them to the next page. Cause it's not just a single page. It's not just one page.
Alyssa Aviles (32:59)
Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Paul (33:01)
It's sometimes it's, you you click on this, you enter your just
Paul (33:05)
name and email and then that takes you to something else that then kind of controls your your like you were talking Ikea kind of controls your path to a final direction. Is there anything I'm missing with that? Is that the way? Okay. Yeah.
Alyssa Aviles (33:18)
You nailed it. That that's the way that most of these funnels work. So
Alyssa Aviles (33:23)
and when we think about lead magnets, ma I'm sure all of you guys have opted into a lead magnet before where you saw a video on social media and they're like, drop this word and we'll send you our guide. And then, you know, they they send you an automation, you go to a page, you put your name and email in, and then you go on a confirmation page where sometimes you'll get what was promised to you there.
Alyssa Aviles (33:43)
And sometimes you'll see an invitation to take the next step, right? It's two pages, but now they're inviting you into the next thing. If you say yes, you're gonna probably go to a third page. So oftentimes, funnels, like you said, they are multiple pages. And depending on the type of funnel, it will guide you to a different step. Pending on what you've selected or what you've said no to, you might be taken to one thing or another thing. So
Paul (34:06)
Yeah.
Alyssa Aviles (34:07)
You you could get real geeky with the customer journey and what you want them to see and do. Yeah.
Paul (34:10)
With those steps, Yeah, I was
Paul (34:13)
seeing some pretty elaborate.
Paul (34:17)
not wireframes, what's the term, a sequence of steps
Alyssa Aviles (34:18)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Paul (34:21)
on creating a funnel. And some of them are truly mind blowing. But if you do them right, they don't feel as mind blowing as what they actually are because some of it is conditional logic and behaviors and cookies
Alyssa Aviles (34:29)
Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yep.
Paul (34:34)
and data and all of that stuff. So, one of the things you talked about early on was, first of all, Pedro's branding was way off.
Paul (34:47)
Where does branding play a part in that? Because one of the things that I've noticed with people within the funnel community is branding isn't that important for a lot of them.
Alyssa Aviles (34:56)
Yeah.
Paul (34:57)
You know, it's kind of like slap words on a page, you know, and
Paul (34:59)
whatever. Have you had to face that battle or have you found yourself working with people who get branding?
Alyssa Aviles (35:08)
Thankfully, I found myself myself with people who understand branding and they see the value of it. But but you're right. And it it's funny like hearing you say that too, because I for some people will like they know me for designing what I call branded funnels because, like you said, some people just kind of do the work just to get the work done and that's it. And even now with AI, you can create a funnel within a few minutes. And people forget that branding component. Then and you and I both know, like,
Alyssa Aviles (35:37)
Branding really is the heartbeat of a business. When you nail down the branding and a person just feels like they know you and they understand your voice and they recognize who you are and they see the value and all that stuff. Like there's so much power in it. And I, you know, I I geek out about branding. I love studying other brands. You can tell in my background here, I've got like Grogu. For anyone who's not watching and just listening, I got like a statue of Grogu here. I got a bunch of Lego here. I've
Paul (36:04)
Yeah, nice.
Alyssa Aviles (36:05)
got all this stuff.
Alyssa Aviles (36:06)
I love like studying big brands, personal brands, things like that. And so anytime I'm working with a client, that is like one of the first things I'm asking them about is well, how do you want to be known? Or how are you currently known to your people? And then, you know, when we're building out funnels, we'll also consider are you gonna be targeting warm traffic? So people who already know like and trust you, or are you targeting cold traffic where you've gotta build that relationship? And I feel like you gotta lean more into the branding and those sorts of cases.
Alyssa Aviles (36:35)
So it's super important. It's super vital. And when people don't necessarily have like a really large brand like Pedro's, for example, or even when we first started, he he had nothing. Like all he had was the hundred X logo that he created and he chose the color orange, which is funny because the orange is the color of creativity. Like I love the color orange.
Paul (36:54)
Yeah. Right. Right.
Alyssa Aviles (36:58)
and
Alyssa Aviles (36:59)
And he he chose that. And I was like, you know what? This is actually very fitting for his person for his personality. He's
Paul (37:04)
You
Alyssa Aviles (37:05)
very expressive, very like, you know, very creative, even though he won't consider himself a creative like I would. Like he's very creative, very out of the box, friendly. It grabs attention. And so I just kind of leaned a little bit more into that. And he didn't like black and orange as a combo because he felt like it was too Halloween y. I love black and orange. I'm a huge fan of.
Paul (37:27)
Yeah, yeah,
Alyssa Aviles (37:28)
color palette. I love it.
Paul (37:29)
yeah.
Alyssa Aviles (37:31)
So for him, we leaned more into the navvies, like navy with oranges and navy tends to be a little bit more of a trusting color. So, you know, I had to lean into that for him. But when I'm working with people that don't have their branding together, then I sit with them before we work on their projects. I'm like, okay, well let me help you. Let's at least like talk through a few things and I can help at least give you a framework for it. And then I'll see what I can do about like putting this together.
Alyssa Aviles (37:56)
And I just kind of go, I create create the thing, and then they're like, my gosh, like this feels like me. And I'm like, yes, like that's so fun. Like it's so
Paul (38:03)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Alyssa Aviles (38:05)
fun when you can land on a page and like you feel something for that person, even if you don't know them. Like,
Paul (38:14)
Right.
Alyssa Aviles (38:14)
I recently went through a funnel for a guy named Scott She Shepherd. I just bought his book. this is an amazing book funnel, by the way. This guy, Scott.
Alyssa Aviles (38:26)
You should have him on your podcast. great book.
Paul (38:28)
yeah. The penpreneur, yeah.
Alyssa Aviles (38:31)
Yeah. So like I went through his funnel and it was so well branded. And I was like, I feel like I know this guy. Like I feel like I've been
Paul (38:38)
Yeah.
Alyssa Aviles (38:38)
friends with him for a while. Branding is is such a cool experience when it's done right. So yeah, you know, like I I see the value in it. I really wish more people would see the value in it. I think it's kind of.
Alyssa Aviles (38:53)
I don't that there there's a a gift within now, I feel like with AI, because like sure you could create a brand within create a brand within, you know, like like a few minutes using AI. But I
Paul (39:03)
Yeah, yeah.
Alyssa Aviles (39:04)
really feel like it because you and I have experienced this, like branding is a long term play. It is not something that,
Paul (39:10)
Yeah, yeah.
Alyssa Aviles (39:12)
you know, it's gonna happen within a minute because AI told you to. It is a long term experience in play. So yeah, it's it I love doing that in funnels. Like branding funnels is my jam.
Paul (39:21)
So
Paul (39:22)
talk about, know, you know, I've talked to a lot of creatives on this podcast and one of the things that I've found is, you know, sometimes there's slightly different views of what the word brand and branding and marketing
Alyssa Aviles (39:36)
Mm.
Paul (39:36)
mean and how they're different and kind of where they cross over and where one stops and hands off to the other.
Paul (39:44)
And so talk about that for a moment is how you see it when you, know, with the, multimillion dollar brands that you've worked with that have generated millions of dollars.
Paul (39:53)
And you've talked about how branding has impacted some of those. How do you define branding or how do you explain it to somebody that's like, well, I have a brand, here is what I created
Alyssa Aviles (40:05)
Yeah.
Paul (40:06)
quickly on Microsoft Word or with AI. So how do you talk
Alyssa Aviles (40:09)
Ha
Paul (40:10)
to them about the differences and why it matters and why they need to be concerned about brand and branding?
Alyssa Aviles (40:19)
Yeah, that's so good. So I'm in the process of writing a book about this right now because I I really believe that, especially in a world where everything is so automated and we're starting to kind of see a lot of things are starting to look the same because people are using the same prompts and they're generating the same sort of look. Like branding is what is really gonna make you stand out and be different in this space. And so there's so many different amazing branding pioneers out there. And I
Alyssa Aviles (40:45)
Wholeheartedly agree with them. It really comes down to being about identity and feelings. So when I'm describing or I'm teaching branding to people, I'm like, okay, it's there, there's like a Venn diagram. And it really is the intersect of who you are and what you do, and then what people think about you. Like your brand is there. It really is that combination of those things. And so I, you know, I always try to encourage people, like, hey, it's not just the color, like, sure.
Alyssa Aviles (41:13)
Color really stands out. That is the most recognizable thing statistically. That's the most recognizable thing that people will associate with brands. But it's more than the color. It's more than the logo. It really is, it
Paul (41:25)
Right, right.
Alyssa Aviles (41:26)
really is something deeper. And so as I've been writing this stuff out, and even as I've been teaching it over the years, like I I was taught growing up that branding really was v visual. Like I, you know, a lot of a lot of times a lot of people teach branding
Paul (41:40)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Alyssa Aviles (41:41)
as like visual first.
Alyssa Aviles (41:43)
And I'm like, it's not that. And then, you know, I started learning from other people where it was also, you have to think about the customer, you think about what their needs, and you really got to think about the niche first. And then the more I got into it, I was like, it doesn't start there. It actually starts with you. It really starts with the heart. Like branding is an inside out sort of thing. And which I think is such a beautiful, like human nature sort of thing, because when we really understand that and we understand that.
Alyssa Aviles (42:14)
The best part of our branding is us and that like being human is our superpower. And
Paul (42:19)
Yeah.
Alyssa Aviles (42:20)
like if we truly can't be authentic ourselves, our customers aren't gonna understand that either. And this this applies from small brand to large brand because I believe there are large brands that have abandoned their core values and that are breaking trust with their people, you know, but it starts it starts
Paul (42:35)
Yeah, yeah.
Alyssa Aviles (42:37)
off small. So that
Alyssa Aviles (42:39)
You know, that's how I like to explain branding. That, you know, it really at the core of it, it really is about identity and feelings. And then when I teach it to people, I've lately I've been teaching it in a simple three step process where it's identity, story, and style. And if you just kind of remember those three things but spend the most time on the first one, you'll be fine.
Paul (42:58)
Yeah,
Paul (42:58)
I love that. I love that. Wow. Yeah. So talk about that for, for just a minute. cause, cause I think putting it that simply, think for some people it's like takes away the complexity cause cause
Alyssa Aviles (43:10)
Yeah.
Paul (43:11)
different people talk about branding and sometimes they make it overly complicated. Sometimes it's marketers
Alyssa Aviles (43:15)
Yeah.
Paul (43:17)
and they're talking about branding, but they're really talking about marketing. so
Alyssa Aviles (43:20)
Yeah.
Paul (43:21)
explain those three steps, you know, briefly. then I do
Alyssa Aviles (43:24)
Mm.
Paul (43:24)
want to start talking about AI and how it's impacted everything.
Alyssa Aviles (43:27)
Yeah, sure. Cool. yeah, so three steps identity, story, and style. So I had a much larger framework. I was teaching a challenge on branding. I'd broken it up into ten days. And, you know, now everything is getting faster. And now AI can do things faster. And money loves speed. You hear all that sort of stuff. And I was like,
Alyssa Aviles (43:46)
Gosh, I gotta break this down into a much more simple framework. And so
Paul (43:50)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Alyssa Aviles (43:51)
the more I thought about it, I was like, man, it really is this. Like it really starts from the inside and then it goes out. So when you spend more time focusing on loving who you are and discovering who God's created you to be, so understanding like your strengths, understanding your differences. And I I don't like to say weaknesses, so like really understanding what makes you different from other people because
Alyssa Aviles (44:15)
You and I are both branding experts and there's a thousand million other people that are also branding experts. So what makes
Paul (44:19)
Right, right. Yeah, yeah.
Alyssa Aviles (44:21)
me different than you? And like you so you gotta start thinking about all those little things. And then also I encourage people to do things like your personality test. Like, are you introverted? Are you extroverted? Because how you function may change how you communicate and how you're creating content and how you're showing up and if you're gonna be on stages. And so some people just
Alyssa Aviles (44:44)
really ignore like I know myself, like I I struggled a lot with depression, like growing up for for from like the bullying and then like a lot of religious trauma too. And so like the more that I've grown comfortable in who God's created me to be and like and and like who I am, the more I've been like confident in like changing things and whatnot. And so like back then I was kind of taught like, you know, you you
Alyssa Aviles (45:10)
It's too selfish to like think about you. You know, like, like, like, yeah,
Paul (45:13)
Right, right.
Alyssa Aviles (45:14)
you know, like don't don't think about all that stuff. And now I'm like, man, yeah, like
Paul (45:16)
Yeah, you're fully yourself, yeah.
Alyssa Aviles (45:18)
you're too full of yourself, like all this stuff. But now I'm like, okay, I understand like what boundaries I need to be successful. And I understand the types of relationships that I want in my life. And I understand that I need a mentor in my life. I don't do well on my own. I understand that
Paul (45:34)
Yeah, yeah.
Alyssa Aviles (45:35)
I need to be in a community. And and as silly as it sounds like.
Alyssa Aviles (45:39)
A lot of people just don't take the time to think about themselves in that sort of way of, well, what do I truly want? And what really is my purpose? And what do I like want to do and who do I want to serve? And so you have to start asking yourself these like deeper questions and really getting to the heart of it. So the identity piece is that and really understanding who you are. And then once you understand who you are, you're going to show up better and love your people better as well.
Alyssa Aviles (46:07)
And so I really think there's so I have Gus Bunse even talking about that now. I really believe there's like a a an energy that comes with that and how you show up for your people. And you know, there's been so many times, I'm sure it's been the same for you, where it's like you start on a project for a client and they're kind of nervous because they're like, Well, I hired another person, I paid them all this money and they didn't like do the job for me. They ghosted me or like stump
Paul (46:29)
Right, right, right.
Alyssa Aviles (46:30)
and and like I'm like, how could a person do that? Like, like
Paul (46:34)
Yeah,
Alyssa Aviles (46:35)
Like we love what we do. Like we we love our people,
Paul (46:37)
yeah.
Alyssa Aviles (46:38)
you know, we show up for our people. And so, the identity piece is that, right? Starting from a foundation, really exploring that, growing into that, becoming more confident in that, figuring out how you can serve and love your audience better. And then the next piece is story. So story is a a huge thing. And you and I could go into like a whole nother episode breaking it down. Like, like this is one of my keynotes, is talking about this whole thing, but
Alyssa Aviles (47:03)
Story is the next piece and it's figuring out like you started with the origin story and yeah, like I I love that. So figuring out your origin story, but then also the story that you want to tell and the stories that are going to connect with your people. So then I encourage people just to like think about stories in your life. So think about cr crucial core moments in your life that have transformed you and have taken you from one place to another. You gotta think about your own transformation.
Alyssa Aviles (47:30)
And then think about the stories of your people. What are they going through right now? What are they struggling with? Where do they want to be?
Paul (47:36)
Yeah, yeah.
Alyssa Aviles (47:37)
Where are they at in this moment? And then you got to think about the people that you've helped. What are the stories of success for them that you can share with other people? So there's a whole storytelling component right there.
Paul (47:46)
Love that. Love that. Yeah. Yeah.
Alyssa Aviles (47:49)
And then the final piece of style. And that's where that's my favorite part. That's the fun part. It's the it's the visuals, you know, it's it's
Paul (47:56)
Right, right, yeah.
Alyssa Aviles (47:57)
It's choosing your colors and choosing your vibe. I'm very much into the energy woo-woo vibey sort of stuff. And and and so that's where you start having more fun with okay, are there is there a color you want to be recognized for? Is there a thing that you want to be recognized for? is there something that you say all the time that you want to be recognized for? And so you know, with me, I go to funnel hacking live every year now and I'm always wearing hats. I have these painted hats.
Alyssa Aviles (48:26)
That I hired artist to make for me. And I always have a hat on. And it's so funny because sometimes I'll go to these events and I'll talk to someone and they'll be like, my gosh, you're list, where's your hat? You don't have your hat on. Like like the one time I don't have, you know, my hat on.
Paul (48:37)
I know. I showed up to a networking
Paul (48:43)
event in a green shirt and people were like, what are you doing? Like, I was totally expecting you to be in a black shirt because you're always in a black shirt. And I was like, I'm in disguise. know? Right, right, right.
Alyssa Aviles (48:55)
The one day you're off brand. That's
Alyssa Aviles (48:58)
so funny. But it's isn't that funny how people recognize that, right? Like, and and you might not they
Paul (49:01)
Yeah, yeah, they noticed the patterns. Yeah.
Alyssa Aviles (49:04)
notice the patterns exactly. And so style is the vibey part of things, the things that you want to be known for, the really fun things, the the vibe, the energy that you want to put off, and the experience that you want to create for your people. So that that's it. And it's very simplest format. It's in my new book. Yep.
Paul (49:20)
I love that. Love that. Is that in your new book? Is that in your new book?
Alyssa Aviles (49:24)
Yep. Yeah.
Paul (49:24)
yes. That's that's those
Paul (49:26)
three things are reason enough. And I'm sure there's way more gold in there. But just those three things are reason enough to get get a list of new book when it comes out. So let's talk about AI. I can't believe we're almost up
Alyssa Aviles (49:36)
Yeah. Ooh, let's do it.
Paul (49:38)
to an hour already. But this has been amazing. So let's talk about AI. But I want to
Alyssa Aviles (49:43)
We're good. Okay.
Paul (49:45)
but I want to talk about AI in the in the in the
Paul (49:50)
maybe the context of what are we not concerned about enough when it comes to AI? Because there's a lot to be, and I've talked to some of the best AI people around on this podcast, and they of course share the wonderfulness of AI, you know. But
Alyssa Aviles (50:08)
Yeah.
Paul (50:09)
as a designer, as somebody that's helped people with building brands, with building websites, with building funnels and things like that,
Paul (50:17)
What are the things that we're not concerned about that we should be right now?
Alyssa Aviles (50:21)
Yeah. So I think right off the bat for me, and this is also probably because I work with a lawyer, copyright stuff. You know,
Paul (50:28)
Yeah.
Alyssa Aviles (50:31)
when you and I design brands and and we are creating logos and things for clients, we're doing research, we're seeing what's out there, we're making sure that what we design isn't too similar to what else is out there and and AI is trained off of what
Alyssa Aviles (50:47)
is out there. And so there are many instances where you might go to ChatGPT and be like, I want to create this logo and this is what I wanted, da da da. And it might create something for you based off a logo that already is on the interweb somewhere. And you technically don't own the copyright for that. Like AI created it. You didn't, sure, you put the prompt in, but like you didn't actually create that. And so there are a lot of like little copyright thing. I don't want to say little because I'm sure it will bring many lawsuits in the future. But
Paul (51:14)
Yes.
Paul (51:15)
Yeah. Yeah.
Alyssa Aviles (51:16)
Like
Alyssa Aviles (51:16)
my my lawyer Peter Nieves, he was telling me like there's over a hundred AI lawsuits out like right now, which is and it's only gonna get bigger. So that's a
Paul (51:25)
Right.
Alyssa Aviles (51:25)
big thing I feel like a lot of people aren't talking about. Like if you want to create your own brand, you want to stand out, and you're in the you're in this time of like you're you're at the part where you've done the identity, you've done the story, and now you're working on the style. Let's say you want to create a logo and all this stuff, like
Alyssa Aviles (51:43)
I always encourage people to start typographic, start simple, typographic. And then when you have the funds, hire a designer to make something custom and truly unique for you. And that way
Paul (51:51)
Right.
Alyssa Aviles (51:52)
you own the copyright, you own everything to that. So that that would be one of the biggest things. My other really big concern, I feel like this is kind of like my head smack moment, is that I I am starting to see people trade their authenticity for automation. And
Paul (52:06)
Mmm.
Alyssa Aviles (52:06)
it's gotten to the point where, like, there's some people out, like, sure, I enjoy following them, but I
Alyssa Aviles (52:12)
I hate that I have to be like, is this them or is it like AI that's posting for them? And
Paul (52:15)
Yeah. Right. Right.
Alyssa Aviles (52:19)
the more I started kind of questioning that with certain people, I'm like, man, like I hate having to ask that question. Like it sucks that I even have to like ask that. And then part of
Paul (52:28)
Yeah.
Alyssa Aviles (52:28)
me is like, you know, do I even want to continue spending with them and buying with them if I know that majority of their stuff is AI? And
Alyssa Aviles (52:37)
And of course, there comes the it's a very nuanced conversation because like you can
Paul (52:40)
Right.
Alyssa Aviles (52:41)
train AI models. Like I use AI every day, right? You can train
Paul (52:44)
Yeah, yeah.
Alyssa Aviles (52:45)
models based on how you talk, based on your voice, based on how you think, with your frameworks, all that sort of stuff. But still, like I, you know, I see people that are like creating full AI avatars with themselves and and like doing UGC videos with AI avatars, and I get kind of nervous about.
Alyssa Aviles (53:04)
you know, legality stuff and you know, like like and
Paul (53:06)
Right, right, right.
Alyssa Aviles (53:08)
then I'm like then I'm like, no, like I I kind of get nervous about like AI using my likeness and like what if it gets used in the wrong way? You know? So like for example,
Paul (53:15)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Alyssa Aviles (53:17)
I for example, I I I just wrote wrote about this in my book too. Like I was on TikTok one night scrolling and I saw an ad from Mr. Beast, you know, Jimmy. And so I I like see this ad, it looks like Mr Beast, it sounds like Mr Beast, but I'm like, something's a little off
Alyssa Aviles (53:34)
You know, like like a little
Paul (53:35)
Yeah, yeah.
Alyssa Aviles (53:36)
like I could tell something's a little off. And in the video he's talking and he's like, I'm gonna give away a thousand iPhones. These are brand new iPhones, you know, like showing the phone off. And all you have to do is click the link below and give two dollars and you'll be entered to win this iPhone. I'm like, wait a second, Jimmy would never ask people
Paul (53:53)
Wow, yeah.
Alyssa Aviles (53:54)
for money. Like, but but like then I'm like, okay, this is a TikTok ad. So TikTok approved this. It looks just like so. Then I, you know, I'm like, let me just see. So I click on the link.
Alyssa Aviles (54:04)
And and it looks like a Mr. B site, but I can tell off the bat,
Paul (54:08)
Wow.
Alyssa Aviles (54:09)
like as I'm looking through it, I'm seeing misspellings. I'm seeing like this, like he would never do this. Like I can start to see like this is not, this is not, I know Jimmy enough to know that this is not who he is and not his voice. And so,
Paul (54:22)
that it's off-brand, yeah.
Alyssa Aviles (54:23)
yeah, it's off brand. So, you know, of course I report it, block it and whatnot, but there are people that they they may not know that, they may not see that and they might
Alyssa Aviles (54:33)
Sent put their credit card information in and they might share it with friends. And, you know, I I've I've I've seen people do that where they share very blatant AI misinformation. And so that part of it makes me really concerned. I I'm really hoping and praying that more like social media platforms will do like AI generated labels and you know, like just like identifying what it really is AI. But it it gets so tricky where, you know, we're starting to see with Instagram right now.
Alyssa Aviles (55:02)
People use Canva to create their graphics. They might use the background remover tool. And and Instagram's like, it's AI generated. And people are like, no, wait, like I literally just used the the background remover tool. I created it. Like what? So it it is gonna get very interesting. That is true. Yeah.
Paul (55:14)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, and watermarks are a big discussion right now too. You know, is watermarking your content and different
Paul (55:22)
people feel differently about it. You know,
Alyssa Aviles (55:24)
Yeah.
Paul (55:25)
some are like, yes, I want to know if it's fake. And people are like, I don't want people to know it's fake. I'm, you know,
Alyssa Aviles (55:28)
Mm.
Paul (55:31)
I'm using it as a tool. You know, I don't have to let people know.
Paul (55:35)
you know, created by Photoshop, you know, or created
Alyssa Aviles (55:37)
Yeah.
Paul (55:38)
by illustrate, like it's a tool that I'm using. there's a lot of mixed
Alyssa Aviles (55:40)
Yeah.
Paul (55:41)
feelings to that. And even with, with content generated by AI,
Alyssa Aviles (55:45)
Mm-hmm.
Paul (55:46)
I'm, you know, I wrestle with her too, because, you know, I had had somebody that's, you know, that, that does a lot of stuff within AI and they were bragging, yeah, all my emails that I send out are written by AI. And I was like, should I unsubscribe? Like, you know, like, it's not
Alyssa Aviles (56:03)
What's the point?
Paul (56:03)
Yeah, it's not from you. It's not from your head. But then there's also the other side of that is, well, you know, they trained it. they, you know, they made it speak in their own voice and probably fed it some of their
Alyssa Aviles (56:13)
Yeah.
Paul (56:14)
intellectual property. And so it is kind of from them, but it's not from them. So
Alyssa Aviles (56:17)
Yeah.
Paul (56:18)
I think, I think that's kind of the era that we in is we're in is we kind of had this love, hate, distrust, love,
Alyssa Aviles (56:25)
Yeah.
Paul (56:26)
excited, frustrated type time when it comes to AI, because it's, it's so
Paul (56:34)
different from anything we've experienced as humans before, and we're not
Alyssa Aviles (56:38)
Mm.
Paul (56:39)
prepared for that.
Paul (56:40)
You know, I don't
Alyssa Aviles (56:40)
Yeah.
Paul (56:41)
think we're, I don't think we're mentally, socially, know,
Alyssa Aviles (56:45)
Mm.
Paul (56:45)
emotionally, creatively, you know, all of that. don't think we're prepared for it. And so we don't
Alyssa Aviles (56:50)
Yeah.
Paul (56:51)
fully know on how to react because how we feel about it one moment could change the next because just like this email, like, you know, for me, my first reaction was, if, you know, if AI writes these emails, I don't want them, you know, but then you're thinking, but they probably spend time training it and it's their IP and all of that stuff. so,
Alyssa Aviles (57:08)
huh.
Paul (57:10)
Do you have those same wrestlings or am I just weird?
Alyssa Aviles (57:13)
I do. I I have been wrestling with this for quite some time because especially in the marketing space and with the people that I've worked with, there has been a massive shift to like AI in the last six, seven months. No, we're eight months into the year. Eight months, like eight, nine months. man, time flies by. Like
Paul (57:32)
Yeah.
Alyssa Aviles (57:33)
it it really rapidly shifted. I I lost a significant amount of business to be completely transparent because I was.
Alyssa Aviles (57:41)
You know, on contracts with some people and retainers with some people. And then they all started learning, well, you could build funnels with AI. And it's really easy. All you have to do is XYZ. You can build a funnel out. You don't have to pay five, 10K, you know, for a funnel designer anymore. You could just build it out within a few minutes of AI. And I'm like, well, shoot, my my unique selling proposition was that I used to be like, while I still do it, I can build funnels very fast. I could build very well-designed funnels within 24 hours if I needed to. and that's just from like
Alyssa Aviles (58:10)
Years of like last minute pivots and deadlines and things with working with Pedro.
Paul (58:13)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Alyssa Aviles (58:15)
But you know, I can't compete to a robot that can do it within 20 minutes. And so,
Paul (58:19)
Right.
Alyssa Aviles (58:20)
you know, the the there has been this really massive shift. And it it has in in many ways, I I was, I'm not gonna lie, I I was really discouraged about it. I have since then been reframing and reshaping things and reimagining things and whatnot. But I was like, man, like
Alyssa Aviles (58:38)
This sucks. You know, like, like, like, you know, like I don't
Paul (58:41)
Right, right, right.
Alyssa Aviles (58:43)
want to be replaced by a bot, you know. and my clients love me, you know, and and several of them have come back and they have me, you know, fix what the AI has created and make it better, right? They use it as a foundation and like it really is. It really is. Mm-hmm.
Paul (58:52)
That's a whole industry in itself. That's a whole industry is fixing AI stuff. Yeah.
Alyssa Aviles (58:58)
Yep, 100%. So, you know, it's been interesting watching the market change so much and leaning more into that. And now everyone's like creating their own.
Alyssa Aviles (59:07)
New things like making your own AI app and then like selling your own
Paul (59:10)
Right, right.
Alyssa Aviles (59:11)
AI app. Now everybody has their own app and you know, like all this stuff. So I was on the fence with it. And and then I had some like ethical concerns and environmental concerns. But the more I've like looked into it and the more I've researched it, I've been way more open to it. And there, there's been a few little like keynotes and conversations that I've heard from other creatives with how they're using AI. And I was like, okay, you know what?
Alyssa Aviles (59:36)
I just need to come up with like boundaries with how I want to use AI and how I don't want to use AI. You know, so
Paul (59:40)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Alyssa Aviles (59:43)
for me right now, I use AI to do a lot of custom coding on funnels. So like I have ideas, and I'm like, it'd be so cool to see this come to life. That normally
Paul (59:52)
Right.
Alyssa Aviles (59:53)
would take me days to figure out on my own with CSS and HTML
Paul (59:56)
Right, right.
Alyssa Aviles (59:57)
and building natively in the builder. But now I prompt to Claude, hey, this is what I'm thinking, this is what I want to do. I want this to be the functionality.
Alyssa Aviles (01:00:05)
I'm gonna put it in this software. I make it as detailed as possible. And then I'm able to inject that code inside of ClickFunnels or go high level, whatever it may be. And I'm able to do things faster that way, which I love that. I love AI AI for being
Paul (01:00:18)
Right, right, right.
Alyssa Aviles (01:00:19)
able to do things like that. And I love it for organizing things. Like I have it go through my downloads folder every week and reorganize everything I in my downloads folder. I have it take a look at my emails and and especially the
Alyssa Aviles (01:00:33)
Emails I don't read. And you know, just to kind of give me a summary of like, okay, what are people talking about? Is there something that I should be paying attention to? So I'm starting to use it a little as a second brain, but I'm trying to use it as like a thinking partner as well. And like almost like an admin assistant for me, where it's like, okay,
Paul (01:00:52)
Yeah, yeah.
Alyssa Aviles (01:00:53)
I like, can I have AI do the things that I don't really love doing and that I don't want to spend time doing?
Alyssa Aviles (01:01:00)
so I've been way more open to it. I've been learning more about it. The other day I tested Claude with ClickFunnels and I asked it to create a style for me inside a ClickFunnels. So a style is essentially like a Canva brand kit where you could put all your logos and fonts and colors and everything. That's what a style is in ClickFunnels, where you will tell the funnel, like, apply this branding to this funnel. So I taught Claude, I said, All right.
Alyssa Aviles (01:01:26)
Here is the brand kit, color response. Here's everything you need. this is how you do it. I I taught it step by step how to do it and I let the agent do it and I watched in real time while it went, it clicked, and it set up the style for me. And I was like, this is awesome because I could go to sleep, I could ask it to do this for me, and I wake up and I can continue running. So like while I sleep, I can have the AI do
Paul (01:01:49)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Alyssa Aviles (01:01:50)
certain things for me. So I've been way more open to it, but man.
Alyssa Aviles (01:01:55)
It's been a it's been a wrestle. I'm not gonna lie. I've been I've been, you know, wrestling with the tension of it and what it can do.
Paul (01:02:00)
Right,
Paul (01:02:01)
right, right. Well, and I think that's, that's the thing too is, you know, with, with the types of clients that you've had, with the ClickCup ClickFunnel community, it's a very different community than, most business owners, know, they're very much
Alyssa Aviles (01:02:16)
That's true.
Paul (01:02:17)
get it done quick, you know, do it myself. you
Alyssa Aviles (01:02:20)
Mm.
Paul (01:02:20)
know, and some of them don't care about branding that like, and so
Alyssa Aviles (01:02:24)
Mm-hmm.
Paul (01:02:24)
they want to jump onto something like AI very quickly because
Paul (01:02:30)
A lot of them don't care about the things that they should be caring about, at least not early on. They start caring about it
Alyssa Aviles (01:02:34)
Sure. Yeah.
Paul (01:02:35)
later, but early on they don't care about it. And so that's, that's a tough market to convince to take a step backwards, you know,
Alyssa Aviles (01:02:44)
Mm-hmm.
Paul (01:02:45)
but, but for a lot of business and even business owners, if there's a business owner that is all in on AI and they're fine with the stuff that AI generates is realizing that they're probably not your ideal client.
Paul (01:02:57)
you know, because they're fine with the slop that's coming out of AI, you know, it's kind of like trying
Alyssa Aviles (01:03:02)
Yeah.
Paul (01:03:03)
to, you know, convince somebody that loves, you know, fast food, junkie fast food. And you're like, I have, but I have steak, but they're like, I'm fine with these greasy gross burgers, you know, but, but I have steak and I have these better things, you there's a better way to eat. There's a better way to, live. No, I'm fine with the slop, you know,
Alyssa Aviles (01:03:23)
Yeah.
Paul (01:03:23)
And so
Paul (01:03:24)
those, you know, those are the clients that sometimes it's just like, let them go, you know, let them do
Alyssa Aviles (01:03:29)
Mm-hmm.
Paul (01:03:30)
their thing. And when you're ready, when you're, you're not healthy, when things aren't going the way they need to be going. And then I'm here for you. I'm here for that moment.
Alyssa Aviles (01:03:39)
Hundred percent.
Alyssa Aviles (01:03:41)
Yeah. No, you nail you nailed it. Yeah, like that's exactly that. So it it is kind of funny seeing everyone now being like, Hey, I slopped this and hey, I slap that. And it's very interesting seeing how different markets are responding to AI. A lot of creatives are mostly against it. And so, you know, I I wanna be a voice of reason and a voice of hope in this space. I don't want to just like doom
Paul (01:04:05)
Right, right.
Alyssa Aviles (01:04:06)
and gloom all the time. Like
Alyssa Aviles (01:04:08)
I've seen some marketing gurus that are out there like everyone's gonna lose their job and and like graphic design I like I've seen
Paul (01:04:15)
No. No.
Alyssa Aviles (01:04:16)
you comment on this stuff where it's like graphic designers don't are like fired or like don't hire a designer ever again in your life. Me too.
Paul (01:04:21)
I hate those posts. I hate those posts. know, fire, fire your designer.
Paul (01:04:26)
You know, now I can do this, you know? And it's like, you've probably never hired a designer. You've probably never worked
Alyssa Aviles (01:04:28)
Yeah, yeah. Right.
Paul (01:04:32)
like, you know, last week you were driving Uber and now you're, you
Alyssa Aviles (01:04:36)
Mm-hmm.
Paul (01:04:36)
know, now you're saying graphic designers are dead. Fire your
Alyssa Aviles (01:04:39)
Yeah.
Paul (01:04:39)
graphic designer, fire your copyright or fire your whatever. And it's like, that's dumb.
Alyssa Aviles (01:04:45)
No,
Alyssa Aviles (01:04:45)
no, there's still room for it. And
Paul (01:04:47)
Yeah.
Alyssa Aviles (01:04:48)
you know, I the the benefit of AI, like kind of how I mentioned earlier, is like now we're starting to see a lot of because people are doing the same prompts, we're starting to see very similar things happen over and over and over and over again. And so the beauty
Paul (01:05:01)
Yeah.
Alyssa Aviles (01:05:02)
is that us as creatives, we can now step in the gap and be like, okay, like sure, if you want to use that content, you can, but like let's make it unique to you. Like people are
Paul (01:05:10)
Right,
Paul (01:05:10)
right.
Alyssa Aviles (01:05:11)
craving
Alyssa Aviles (01:05:12)
the benefit of all the automation and stuff is that pre people are craving authenticity and they're craving
Paul (01:05:16)
Right.
Alyssa Aviles (01:05:17)
human connection. And so like
Paul (01:05:19)
Yeah.
Alyssa Aviles (01:05:19)
I I really believe that like in-person events are the way to go. I still think virtual events do really, really well live, not pre-recorded. Live always out converts the pre-recorded stuff. But I really think that like in person
Alyssa Aviles (01:05:34)
Whether it's small or like a really large event, that is where a lot of the value is at because people want the face to face thing. Like, I don't
Paul (01:05:40)
Right, right, right.
Alyssa Aviles (01:05:42)
think as many people would be listening to you and I talking now if it was like our AI avatar scene, you know? So yeah.
Paul (01:05:47)
Right, right, right. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. I think you're absolutely
Paul (01:05:52)
correct in that is, is I think, I think the pushback is going to be for more of those live interactions for, you know,
Alyssa Aviles (01:06:01)
Hm.
Paul (01:06:02)
and I think that's going to be a differentiator for some businesses where it's like, Hey, if you call us, you're going to talk to a real person,
Alyssa Aviles (01:06:08)
Yeah.
Paul (01:06:09)
you know, or if you, you send, if you contact us, if you message us, a real person will get back to you within 24 hours.
Alyssa Aviles (01:06:16)
Yeah.
Paul (01:06:17)
And I think those kind of things is where you can find a way to humanize your business will be the differentiator for a lot of businesses in the future that people are just gonna push back. Because I think as humans, think it's the way God made us is we like people, people like
Alyssa Aviles (01:06:32)
Yeah.
Paul (01:06:33)
people, people like people faces. during the pandemic, that was probably one of the most devastating things for a lot of people that.
Alyssa Aviles (01:06:40)
Yeah.
Paul (01:06:40)
has created
Paul (01:06:40)
a PTSD forum because, you know, they missed being around people. They missed the human face, you know, and then the mask,
Alyssa Aviles (01:06:45)
Mm. Yeah.
Paul (01:06:48)
of course, we couldn't see faces. And it was like, I want to see a smile when I go out in public. want
Alyssa Aviles (01:06:52)
Yeah.
Paul (01:06:53)
to, you know, I want to see a human face. And so I think that is like, I think you're absolutely right. And that is that, that human engagement, that human event. I mean, I've started going to networking events. went to a networking luncheon today, you know, just to,
Alyssa Aviles (01:07:07)
Yeah.
Paul (01:07:08)
just to be around humans, you know, just
Paul (01:07:10)
to put pants on and go outside and see real human beings, you know, and hand out some, dare I say it, business cards. my, you know, yeah, yeah.
Alyssa Aviles (01:07:19)
That's
Paul (01:07:20)
And so, because I think we're just made that way. I think we just need
Alyssa Aviles (01:07:23)
Yeah.
Paul (01:07:24)
that.
Alyssa Aviles (01:07:25)
Yeah, for sure. I definitely think and you're you know, we're starting to kind of see this now with just culture. People are craving to be with one another and also physical stuff. I we're starting to see a shift to like e like no not e com like physical analog goods or like making a comeback. So naturally
Paul (01:07:42)
Yeah.
Alyssa Aviles (01:07:43)
us as nerds, you know, like my husband used to have a VHS collection. We recently sold it because we're we're trying
Alyssa Aviles (01:07:51)
BHS is making a big comeback right now. And CDs, like my husband recently started, like we've been collecting vinyl for a while. I love the art and the style of vinyl, but my husband started going to a CD shop, picking up some CDs, and he had heard from the shops like teenagers are going in there every weekend and buying CDs. Like that is now like CD sales
Paul (01:08:13)
Wow.
Alyssa Aviles (01:08:14)
are starting to like skyrocket, which is so interesting. Then you're seeing stuff like Pokemon cards and trading cards in general.
Alyssa Aviles (01:08:21)
really skyrocketing right now. Live selling on apps like Whatnot and eBay are skyrocketing right now. And it's because people want in person, but they also want tangible things. Like I feel like we're kind
Paul (01:08:32)
Right, right.
Alyssa Aviles (01:08:33)
of entering this like, maybe we are a little tired of everything being online. You know, maybe like
Paul (01:08:37)
Yeah, yeah.
Alyssa Aviles (01:08:39)
I bought this book because I like physical book rather than doing,
Paul (01:08:42)
Yeah, yeah.
Alyssa Aviles (01:08:44)
you know, an ebook on an iPad or anything like that. So it is very interesting seeing how
Alyssa Aviles (01:08:49)
AI is impacting even our culture and like the way that people are responding and what they're buying and what they want to do. So we're I I'm very interested to see what's gonna happen in these next few years because AI is rapidly
Paul (01:09:01)
Yeah, yeah.
Alyssa Aviles (01:09:02)
changing too, you know?
Paul (01:09:03)
Yeah. And
Paul (01:09:04)
I think it's too early to make a call. mean, there's a lot of AI profits out there. I mean, this, it's AI is just a baby. Like it's literally been only three years or so that it's been around. And I mean, it feels like it's been way longer and it's
Alyssa Aviles (01:09:20)
Yeah.
Paul (01:09:20)
so ingrained into what we do. right now I couldn't imagine, you know, existing with that AI because I've incorporated into so much of what I do.
Alyssa Aviles (01:09:29)
Yeah.
Paul (01:09:29)
But you know, it's too soon to make a call. And I think what
Paul (01:09:33)
what happens is, you once you stretch too far in one direction, there's always a bounce back like we bounce back. And so if there's, you know, somebody on the extreme left, then we'll kind of bounce back and hopefully sometimes land in the middle. But when there's too much AI and too much automation and too much, you know, things being impersonal, then there will be a bounce back where people say I want
Paul (01:09:55)
the analog experience. want something I can
Alyssa Aviles (01:09:57)
Yeah.
Paul (01:09:57)
hold. I want somebody I can see. I want to shake a hand, you know, type thing. And so I think you're
Alyssa Aviles (01:10:01)
Yeah.
Paul (01:10:02)
right in that is, is that there will be a spring back and we're starting to see it already, but people are saying, you know, this overly digital, overly communicated, overly connected society that we're in doesn't feel human, doesn't feel like what we're wired to be. I mean, I've even considered
Paul (01:10:20)
getting a flip phone and just like getting rid of my iPhone.
Alyssa Aviles (01:10:22)
Same.
Paul (01:10:24)
And you know, just like, you know, I saw I saw a little device where you can actually get like, I've got an Apple watch, but
Alyssa Aviles (01:10:30)
Uh-huh.
Paul (01:10:30)
my lifestyle is not worthy of this watch. And I actually bought a little Casio watch, a little Casio digital ladies watch. Problem was, I've got I've got big wrists. And so it felt like a little
Alyssa Aviles (01:10:39)
Yes. huh.
Paul (01:10:42)
tiny bracelet. So my wife wears an Albert, you know, you know, I think
Alyssa Aviles (01:10:46)
Yeah.
Paul (01:10:47)
we kind of want to do that sometimes it's just like,
Alyssa Aviles (01:10:49)
Mm.
Paul (01:10:50)
from all of it. And I think AI
Alyssa Aviles (01:10:52)
Yeah.
Paul (01:10:52)
has triggered that. think COVID triggered that is just
Alyssa Aviles (01:10:56)
Yeah.
Paul (01:10:56)
like humans like humans. I mean, it was from the very beginning like that. Like God said, it's not
Alyssa Aviles (01:11:00)
Yeah.
Paul (01:11:01)
good for man to be alone. So let me create him an iPhone. Let me create him. No, it was a person. was a,
Alyssa Aviles (01:11:08)
Yeah.
Paul (01:11:08)
let me give him an angel. No, let me give him a puppy. No, was, me give him another person. And I think we've
Alyssa Aviles (01:11:14)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Paul (01:11:15)
always been wired towards that. And anytime that we're pulled too far from that.
Paul (01:11:19)
I think naturally we kind of spring back into it.
Alyssa Aviles (01:11:23)
Yeah, yeah, that's beautiful.
Paul (01:11:26)
So what else
Paul (01:11:27)
is exciting you? You we talked about the negatives of AI. What part
Alyssa Aviles (01:11:30)
Mm-hmm.
Paul (01:11:31)
is exciting you? What are some of the things that excite you? You shared some, but what are some of the things that exciting you?
Alyssa Aviles (01:11:34)
Yeah.
Alyssa Aviles (01:11:35)
You know, the the potential to get my time back is probably the most exciting thing because I I feel like I'm kind of going through a millennial midlife crisis. I've been going through this for probably like the last year now. Where
Paul (01:11:47)
Yeah.
Alyssa Aviles (01:11:50)
I'm like, man, do we want to start a family? And then like we're trying to figure out like if we want to move, but like I'm I well, you need money to do that. I'm constantly working and like we're still paying off a lot of debt right now. And like
Alyssa Aviles (01:12:02)
I I've been feeling really stuck and trapped in some ways. And so I'm like, man, like what if AI could lift some of the the burden and like give me some of my time back? So, you know, kind of like how I mentioned before, with I'm teaching it to do certain things in my funnels for me, like that saves me time. That gives me a little bit of my time back. And I, you know, I was encouraged recently. I went to an ads event in Atlanta with a girl named Ashley Brock. She has a
Alyssa Aviles (01:12:30)
Company called Paid Ads Academy. And while there, one of her best friends is Kellen Faulkner with the Young Common Business. And I had seen ads for her all over the place. And what her company does is they teach businesses how to use AI in the business so you get your time back. They had a $19 million launch with a team of only 20 humans and 150 AI employees. And I was like, whoa, that that is insane.
Paul (01:12:52)
Wow. Wow. Yeah.
Alyssa Aviles (01:12:56)
And and so, you know, even before we started, she had asked everyone, well, where's everyone at with AI? Let me address concerns. The the water stuff came up, the environmental stuff came up, like all that sort of stuff. So she she addressed that stuff. But then she was like, you know, the core of it is humans still run the business. The AI is what is just helping us do these things and offloading all of this work so we can actually shut off our laptop. She's like, the whole company.
Alyssa Aviles (01:13:24)
Shuts off the computers at 5 p.m. and they go live their life. It's not
Paul (01:13:27)
Wow.
Alyssa Aviles (01:13:28)
like you have to be on call and be like, well, you forgot to do this or you got to work late. And, you know, in the marketing space, everything's so volatile. Like I've had to build funnels in the middle of the night before or fix things at 1 a.m., you know? And
Paul (01:13:38)
Yeah. Wow.
Alyssa Aviles (01:13:40)
so, like, when she was talking about her company being able to do this and how every employee has a series of AI employees that they've trained, that they've worked with. and the whole goal and mission is like, what if we can be
Alyssa Aviles (01:13:54)
profitable and get our time back and we let AI do the things that we hate doing. Like, what would life
Paul (01:13:59)
Yeah.
Alyssa Aviles (01:14:00)
look like if if that was possible? And she's proved that it's possible. And so that was actually really encouraging to me. Like I just saw that that talk last month. And I so I've been thinking about AI in that way of okay, what else could I have it do that I don't really enjoy doing right now? And
Alyssa Aviles (01:14:19)
I still really believe there's gotta be a balance to it. Like I still always wanna make
Paul (01:14:22)
Yeah, yeah.
Alyssa Aviles (01:14:23)
sure like I'm doing a human first approach. So for me, like I'm still old school. I still write my own emails, I still write my own social media posts.
Paul (01:14:32)
Yeah.
Alyssa Aviles (01:14:32)
sometimes I'll take the post and I'll run it through Claude and be like, does this make sense? Like, can you like can you turn this up for me? Like sometimes I'll do that, but it's
Paul (01:14:39)
Right, right.
Alyssa Aviles (01:14:40)
still me like writing everything, you know?
Paul (01:14:43)
Yeah.
Alyssa Aviles (01:14:43)
and so I I am excited about that potential the most of
Alyssa Aviles (01:14:49)
being o able to offload those certain tasks. And then and then like I mentioned before, like really getting creative in the process. I can't go too much into the details of this, but like I was hired, white labeled, I was hired to like work for an agency and I was working with a client that is in the food industry. And so, you know, they had a funnel that was designed by a previous agency that wasn't really on brand and they are now at, you know, seven figures and they want to up level their brand. And so I'm like going through
Alyssa Aviles (01:15:18)
Okay, we're gonna do this, we're gonna do that. So while I'm building out the funnel, because I'm still old school, I still like to build things out natively in the builder and I'll just inject code where I want to inject code. I hate having to like go to Claude and like prompt something, and then I'm like, it looks good, but it needs to fix this one thing, and then I go to fix that, and then it breaks another thing. And then I'm like re-prompting and re-prompting and re-prompting. But but like I like.
Paul (01:15:40)
Yes, yes.
Alyssa Aviles (01:15:43)
There's beauty in the creative process that I feel like a lot of people are skipping over by fully trusting AI. So while I was in this funnel for this client, I was like, man, it'd be really cool if I made like recipe cards like in this section of the funnel. And the recipe cards would have a certain like feature on it. So I described the idea to Claude, prompted it, came up with the code, made it mobile friendly as well. So on desktop, it looks one way, on mobile looks another way.
Alyssa Aviles (01:16:12)
Took me probably 30 minutes to get it to the way that I really wanted it to be. I injected the code in, designed the rest of the funnel. But I'm like, I probably wouldn't have come up with that idea if I had not gone through the process of like building it out and like like
Paul (01:16:24)
Right, right, right.
Alyssa Aviles (01:16:26)
really kind of going through that. But like, you know, I ended up hearing through the agency that she loved it. It's one of her favorite like things in the funnel. So I'm like, that
Paul (01:16:31)
Yeah.
Alyssa Aviles (01:16:34)
is so cool. You know, like I I love that now we're kind of given this opportunity to.
Alyssa Aviles (01:16:39)
lean into our creativity a bit more. And like if we've had ideas that have been stuck up here forever, making it come to life, you know, I a lot of people
Paul (01:16:47)
Yeah, yeah.
Alyssa Aviles (01:16:48)
that are building apps, that's that's something where it's like they've had this idea, they wish it existed. And now you have the the availability to
Paul (01:16:55)
Right, right.
Alyssa Aviles (01:16:56)
and accessibility to do to do that. You know? So I'm very hopeful for AI in in that sense of things where it's like I can still charge what I'm charging.
Alyssa Aviles (01:17:06)
It's still me. This is just helping me work faster and be able to shut my computer at five PM and go to the beach, go live my life, take the dog out, you know, whatever it may be. Yeah.
Paul (01:17:16)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Paul (01:17:18)
I think AI is, you know, I think it's better to be AI augmented than it is to ignore it. I think,
Alyssa Aviles (01:17:25)
Yeah.
Paul (01:17:26)
I guess if we want to bring it back down to superheroes, it's kind of like Iron Man. Like, you know, there's a real person in there.
Paul (01:17:34)
but it's augmented
Alyssa Aviles (01:17:34)
Yeah.
Paul (01:17:35)
by technology, right? And so I think with AI, the healthy way to use it is to let it augment what you already do, but not
Alyssa Aviles (01:17:44)
Yeah.
Paul (01:17:44)
totally replace you, not take you out of the loop. And they talk about
Alyssa Aviles (01:17:47)
Yeah.
Paul (01:17:48)
having a human in the loop.
Paul (01:17:49)
when creating stuff is make sure a human looks at it before it just goes out there. And I think that's the way I kind of want to live is I want to, I'd rather be AI augmented than let it just replace the stuff that I do. I still like getting,
Alyssa Aviles (01:18:03)
hundred percent.
Paul (01:18:03)
I still like getting my hands dirty, you know, in building and creating and whatever. And I think, I think that's a healthy way to look at things.
Alyssa Aviles (01:18:11)
Yeah, definitely. I I I really believe that it also carries like the energy of God also when you're in that creative process that a lot of people
Paul (01:18:19)
Yeah.
Alyssa Aviles (01:18:20)
just like they they skip over and you know I and I totally get especially in the marketing world, you you'll hear all the time like like money loves speed, just like don't think it, just get it done. And now AI lets you do that super, super, super fast. And like I'm like, cool, that's great that you did that, but
Alyssa Aviles (01:18:39)
Like I wanna experience the creative process in this thing. I wanna like step my feet in the creative flow of of God and and the creator
Paul (01:18:46)
Right, right.
Alyssa Aviles (01:18:47)
and all this stuff. And I and I really do believe that there is this like beautiful energy that comes with it. Well, like you said, like the humans, like we are the ones that are like managing it, we're the ones that are publishing it, and we're the ones overlooking it and overviewing it. And even Callan with the uncommon business, the one that did the nineteen million dollar launch, like that's how she runs her company too, where it's like.
Alyssa Aviles (01:19:08)
At the end of the day, the humans are managing the AI employees and the humans are reviewing everything that they do. They're the ones that are pressing publish and like giving approvals and doing all these things and coming up with the ideas. Like they're just like using the AI to assist them with, you know, assist them with all this other stuff. And so, and she believes the same thing. Like that it has to have that human energy. There's such a beautiful thing with that. that I feel like a lot of people just are kind of glazing over right now. So
Alyssa Aviles (01:19:37)
Yeah, I mean, it's interesting.
Paul (01:19:39)
Yeah,
Paul (01:19:40)
well, and I think even as artists and creatives, we do like to keep our hands on stuff. We do like the tacticalness
Alyssa Aviles (01:19:46)
Yeah.
Paul (01:19:48)
of creativity, but creativity
Alyssa Aviles (01:19:50)
Mm-hmm.
Paul (01:19:51)
is a lot more than just output. Like it's a journey sometimes.
Alyssa Aviles (01:19:53)
Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Paul (01:19:55)
making mistakes and that mistake becomes a feature. know, that mistake
Alyssa Aviles (01:19:59)
Yeah.
Paul (01:20:00)
becomes a direction, that mistake becomes a pivot in what you were once creating. And I've done that so many times. I'd be creating something in Photoshop and I clicked the wrong thing and I'm like, that wasn't what I wanted to
Alyssa Aviles (01:20:10)
Mm-hmm.
Paul (01:20:13)
click on. But wait, now that I look at, you know, setting it to difference instead of multiply actually, you know, makes it look a little better. so
Alyssa Aviles (01:20:21)
Mm-hmm.
Paul (01:20:21)
You know, I think with AI, you miss that journey of creativity. You know, you miss that,
Alyssa Aviles (01:20:25)
Yeah. Yeah.
Paul (01:20:27)
the discovery, the mistakes, the stumbles, the pivots,
Alyssa Aviles (01:20:31)
Mm-hmm.
Paul (01:20:32)
and you might get something nice out of it, and you can get something beautiful out of it. But like how much more beautiful would it have been if a human was in that loop, you know? And
Alyssa Aviles (01:20:42)
Yeah.
Paul (01:20:43)
so I think there's a market for AI-generated content, but I don't think the market for human-generated stuff is ever going away.
Alyssa Aviles (01:20:51)
Yeah, for sure. It will always stay. There's always gonna be, in my opinion, I feel like there's more value in the human. You know,
Paul (01:20:57)
Ryan.
Alyssa Aviles (01:20:57)
like I I want to support the human. I want to I want to know that where I'm buying from, I trust them and I I see that they're using humans. Like I get really turned off with like AI, like fake AI avatars, like doing testimonials and stuff like that. And I and and and I'm hoping legally they'll crack down on that too, you know? but
Paul (01:21:14)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Alyssa Aviles (01:21:16)
but you know, like
Alyssa Aviles (01:21:17)
it it will be interesting to see like what happens with the whole AI Avatar thing. I've seen people are making mad money doing the AI Avatar thing. I'm like, you what? Mad props to you. But like, I don't know. I I I just kind of feel a little weird about it. I'm like, I I want to actually see you and and like and like, you know,
Paul (01:21:33)
Right, right, right.
Alyssa Aviles (01:21:35)
hear things from you. And so I still wrestle with that. I I I because I we have many peers that do that and and they have fun with it and they love it. But I'm like, man, like I
Alyssa Aviles (01:21:45)
I r I really want the real you. You know. Yeah.
Paul (01:21:47)
Yeah, yeah, it is it is it is a struggle with,
Paul (01:21:51)
you know, seeing that the people that are making, making a lot of money with AI,
Alyssa Aviles (01:21:56)
Mm-hmm.
Paul (01:21:58)
doing things that they've replaced themselves, it's AI avatars
Alyssa Aviles (01:22:01)
Yeah.
Paul (01:22:02)
creating it. And you're like, they're making so much money, you know, but it's like, but I, know, authenticity, you know, and creativity.
Alyssa Aviles (01:22:07)
Yeah. Yeah.
Paul (01:22:10)
And it's this, this, you know, and I guess it's envy, you know, which we need to kind of be careful about.
Paul (01:22:16)
But, but
Alyssa Aviles (01:22:16)
Yeah.
Paul (01:22:17)
you know, there's always going to be like, we talked about earlier, there's always going to be a market for that fast food slot. People are going to be totally happy with it. They're satisfied with it and they're going to make a lot of money with it. And you've
Alyssa Aviles (01:22:28)
Yeah.
Paul (01:22:29)
got to decide, well, what, what matters to me kind of going back to your three things that you talked about, you know, about
Alyssa Aviles (01:22:33)
Yeah, yeah.
Paul (01:22:35)
your identity, who am I? What do I care about? What matters to me? What do
Alyssa Aviles (01:22:37)
Your values.
Paul (01:22:38)
I, yeah. What do I like? What do I not like? And just being comfortable with that and, and, and
Paul (01:22:45)
being at that and not letting envy or any of those other things kind of distract you from being you.
Alyssa Aviles (01:22:52)
Yeah. You nailed it.
Paul (01:22:55)
Well, this has been an amazing conversation. my goodness. you know, it's, going on over an hour and, and we could probably keep going and going and going. Yeah. We
Alyssa Aviles (01:23:05)
We could keep going.
Paul (01:23:07)
could turn this into a Joe Rogan style podcast and just get, go for, go for hours, go for hours.
Alyssa Aviles (01:23:10)
Which is hours later.
Paul (01:23:12)
Yeah. And so, so if people want to get ahold of you, how did I get ahold of you? how do they kind of get into your world a little more?
Alyssa Aviles (01:23:20)
Sure. So my website is thelovelist.com. It's still under construction, but it's pretty fun if you go there. You should check it out. and on social media, I am at the Loveless as well. So that is a nickname that my friends and clients would give me when they would introduce me to other people. They'd be like, meet my friend the Loveless. And I was like, I'm gonna use that as my business name and as my as my screen name. So yeah, that's
Paul (01:23:40)
That's awesome. Yeah.
Alyssa Aviles (01:23:43)
So that's that's what we're doing around here. You can find me mostly on Facebook and TikTok at this time. I'm considering reviving the YouTube channel. But yeah, that's how you can connect with me. Yep.
Paul (01:23:52)
All right, yeah. And that's where you'll find out the latest updates on the book and when it comes out.
Paul (01:23:57)
And I encourage everybody to get that book. I think it's going to be amazing.
Alyssa Aviles (01:24:01)
Yeah.
Paul (01:24:02)
Thank you so much, Liz. This has been so good.
Alyssa Aviles (01:24:04)
You're so welcome. I have a blast with you. All right, have plenty.
Paul (01:24:07)
Alright, have a great day.
Alyssa Aviles (01:24:08)
Bye.