Jonathan Montoya / Owner of Maker AI. Affiliate Expert

Jonathan Montoya had negative $1,200 in his bank account and a full-time engineering job he hated. 

Six years later he has built three separate businesses to seven figures and taught over 65,000 students how to build a life outside the 9-to-5. 

In this episode he breaks down the exact YouTube-as-a-hub strategy that took him from broke to burnt out to free, the Facebook "comment ladder" trick that is quietly generating him millions of views right now, and how he used AI tools like Claude Code and Lovable to go from idea to a thousand paying software customers in under six weeks. 

If you have ever wondered whether you can actually build a business by learning in public, this conversation is your proof.

BIO:

Jonathan Montoya is a digital marketing entrepreneur, affiliate marketing educator, and AI software builder who has taken three different businesses to seven figures. After earning an electrical engineering degree from the University of New Mexico and spending years in a corporate engineering role he never loved, Montoya began posting a YouTube video every single day at 3:30 a.m. while his bank account sat at negative $1,200. Nine months later, in March 2020, he quit his job to pursue affiliate marketing and content creation full time. He has since built a following of hundreds of thousands across YouTube, TikTok, Instagram, and Facebook, ranked among the top affiliates worldwide for launches including Alex Hormozi's $105 million offer and Russell Brunson's Offer Lab, and served more than 66,000 students through his digital marketing and AI programs. He is the creator of Freedom Threads, a Facebook growth automation tool, and Maker AI, a platform built in partnership with WebinarKit founder Stefan Ciancio that helps entrepreneurs find, build, and market their own AI-powered software.

LINKS: 

https://freedomthreads.ai/

https://getmakerai.com/

Paul Povolni (Voppa) is the founder of Voppa Creative and a creative leader with over 30 years of experience in brand strategy and design. Based in Jackson, Mississippi, he has worked with clients internationally, leading teams in award-winning branding while serving as a coach and speaker. Paul delivers workshops and keynotes on brand strategy, creative thinking, and organizational culture, and hosts The Headsmack Podcast: Conversations with Misfits. His work centers on helping organizations lead with Clarity, Creativity, and Culture.

Headsmack Website

Voppa Creative Website

Transcript

Paul (03:30.775)
Hey, welcome to the HeadSmack Podcast. My name is Paul Povolni and I am excited to have another Misfit with me. I have Jonathan Montoya and he has taken three different businesses to seven figures. He has served over sixty six thousand students when it comes to digital marketing and AI. Jonathan, how you doing, man?

Jonathan Montoya (03:49.943)
Dude, I'm doing so good. How about you, Paul?

Paul (03:52.724)
I am doing great. I have been looking forward to this conversation since we connected several months ago and then we got to meet in person at an event. And I thought, man, I I wanna have Jonathan on the podcast. I wanna talk to him. He's doing amazing things. He's an amazing guy, so I appreciate you doing this.

Jonathan Montoya (04:10.583)
Yeah, man, I'm excited. yeah, it was fun that we got to hang out in in b in what was it, Arkansas. That was such a fun time, man. So excited we're doing this, ready to rock.

Paul (04:16.641)
Yeah.

Yeah, well and and I'm I'm eager to learn about everything that you've been doing. You've been doing some amazing stuff, especially in the area of of AI. And so I want to hear a little bit about your origin story, just to kind of bring folks up to speed of where you kind of started at and you can go as far back as as you wanna go. but tell me a little bit about your origin story.

Jonathan Montoya (04:39.767)
Yeah, yeah. I mean, I'll I'll start like kinda in in the high school days because that's kind of where I started I thought I knew what I wanted to do. at that time everyone was telling me, hey Jonathan, you have to you know, graduate high school, go to college, get your degree, live your life. I'm like, Okay, that's what I gotta do. so after that, you know, I g I went to college. I went to UNM in in New Mexico and

Basically got my degree in electrical engineering. gotten married that same year that I graduated. Awesome year. and then I got a job in that field. I started working. I was, you know, I I thought I was happy. You know, I had gotten a good job. The money was pretty good at the time. And you know, I just started

A after every single day, I was just like, okay, this is starting to feel the same. This is this is the same thing every day, right? So and then I just never I I never loved the corporate structure, man. It was just like I've always been kind of a a a misfit or a rebel, right? So like you know, just people telling me what to do, just I hate it, man. Like, so just you know

Paul (05:37.241)
Yeah.

Paul (05:48.183)
Yeah, yeah.

Paul (05:53.581)
Ha ha.

Jonathan Montoya (05:55.357)
As the days went by, I was just like, okay, I I I need to figure out maybe maybe some sort of side hustle. I you know, I I I need eventually maybe I can possibly leave this job. I never thought I could leave a job because like I had spent hundreds of thousands, you know, on this degree, and this was like the hardest thing I've ever done, still till this day, by the way. so, anyways, I I started getting into all kinds of side hustles at the time I

Paul (06:10.925)
Yeah, yeah.

Jonathan Montoya (06:21.387)
I was getting into things like crypto and forex trading. I remember I was buying courses on on on stock trading and stuff like that. so I started I did that for a few years, won money you know, made some money, lost some money, mostly lost money, which was a lot. But but yeah, so that went on for a while. I was like, okay, this is not gonna work. This is this is like

Paul (06:31.425)
Yeah, yeah.

Paul (06:39.353)
Ha ha ha.

Jonathan Montoya (06:46.037)
Okay, cool, you can make money, but like at the end of the day, it's like I it it was still wasn't like what I wanted to do, right? So eventually I c I kept trying to figure things out. I got into like e-commerce, I got into Amazon FBA, so that kind of world. Again, bought some courses, spent thousands on courses, all the extra money I was making with my engineering job, I was literally just pouring into courses, mentors, got into that whole e-commerce thing, you know, built a pretty decent like clothing brand.

Paul (06:51.928)
Right.

Jonathan Montoya (07:15.005)
it was one of those things where like you had a Shopify store, you would you know buy the the clothes from Alibaba and then they would automatically ship it. You know, it was a cool business model. Never made a crazy amount of money, just enough to just like enough. So like you you're we weren't losing money, but it was like we weren't making enough to quit the job, right? So anyways.

Paul (07:15.517)
wow.

Paul (07:25.069)
Nice.

Paul (07:37.241)
But it was also kind of your first foray into a new world, right? It was it was your first foray into a new world of of e com and and selling stuff online, right? Yeah.

Jonathan Montoya (07:42.157)
What was that?

Jonathan Montoya (07:47.947)
Yeah, yeah. I mean, I I wasn't this was all new to me, right? I I knew nothing about nothing besides school, you know. but yeah, so so you know, moving after that, I was like, I don't wanna do this either, man. Like I I I wanna do something else. You know, at this time I was still working my job. I I got into like the whole like digital marketing world. So that's when I found like Russell Bronson and I found some other like big YouTube mentors. I bought their program.

Paul (07:54.105)
Yeah.

Jonathan Montoya (08:16.077)
And then I I was like, this is cool. The reason why I like that man was because all the other things was just like just trying to make extra money, right? And when I found this, I remember Russell talking about you have a calling and

Paul (08:18.881)
Yeah, yeah.

Jonathan Montoya (08:32.929)
And you can actually serve people at a higher level. And that hit me so hard, man. I was like, my gosh. I'm like, all this other thing, yeah, you can make money with trading and whatever. All there's all kinds of weird ways to make money, right? but I was like, that hit me so hard. I was like, my gosh, okay.

Paul (08:37.069)
Wow, yeah.

Paul (08:45.196)
Right.

Jonathan Montoya (08:51.561)
So, what do I need to do? So, I started reading, you know, a lot of his books. One of the best books I've ever read was Expert Secrets. He talks about building a loyal following, a brand, if you will. building like a calling that's so deep that people just just follow you, right? So I was like, okay, that's what I need to do.

I was terrified to get on camera. I was terrified to to even like sh take a photo of myself. Like, dude, I never wanted to like talk on camera, make a YouTube video, anything like that, be on a podcast, right? but I realized I was like, well, this is what I need to do. So

Paul (09:14.873)
Ha ha ha.

Paul (09:25.089)
Yeah. Yeah.

Jonathan Montoya (09:30.859)
What I started doing is I just started putting myself out there. my you know, I still have my first content on YouTube, which was like six years ago. And it was horrible, right? But I was like, dude, I was doing a YouTube video every single day. I would get up at 3 30 a.m. because I was so hungry to get to get out of this job every single day, every single day, 3 30 a.m. would make a video every day. eventually, I'll give you kind of the timeline here. So I started this in like May of 2019.

Paul (09:40.716)
Mm-hmm.

Paul (09:44.077)
Well.

Jonathan Montoya (10:00.745)
Actually during that time, my bank account was negative twelve hundred. and that's when I actually made the jump to go into this whole personal brand thing, right? So anyways, nine months later, or March of 2020, two weeks before the pandemic, I I finally was making enough money after doing a video every single day and just being consistent, doing all the boring work, I was able to quit my job as an engineer. it was crazy because it was two weeks before the pandemic.

Paul (10:04.866)
Wow.

Paul (10:10.551)
Yeah.

Jonathan Montoya (10:30.481)
And yeah, man, it it ever since then I've been just thousand miles an hour just building and building and I haven't lost that vision of building a brand, of building that that loyal following, that that vision, right? So yeah, it's a little bit about my backstory.

Paul (10:30.68)
wow. Wow.

Paul (10:46.121)
Wow. So how did your wife and family feel about you venturing into this online world after spending all that time in, you know, having a secure job and spending all that time in in investment in in college?

Jonathan Montoya (10:59.223)
Yeah, so my wife was amazing. She was like super supportive of everything. It was more me, the way I felt about myself during that time. Cause like if you think about it, I was like losing all this money, like trying all these different side hustles. So in my mind, I was just like, man, I just keep failing and failing and failing. It was and it was just more on on myself, but my wife was so supportive the whole time. She was like, You'll figure it out, you'll figure it out, you'll figure it out.

Paul (11:27.769)
Yeah, yeah.

Jonathan Montoya (11:28.851)
And and I did. and she believed in me and more than myself, I I think. And and yeah, man. And my family, you know, they're a little like they didn't really understand when I quit. They're like, You're why are you quitting your engineering job? Like you spent years trying to get this thing. they weren't like

Paul (11:41.305)
Ha ha ha.

Yeah.

Jonathan Montoya (11:46.202)
crazy opposed to it, but I'm sure they were worried in the back of their minds. right now probably not anymore. But but yeah, but it was it was no no one ever like said, hey, we need to really talk. Like everyone was pretty supportive. Yeah.

Paul (11:50.071)
Right, right.

Paul (11:58.734)
Yeah, yeah. Well and a lot of people sometimes face either that internal resistance or that ex external resistance to trying something new, especially trying something ad adventurous and something that's kind of out there. And so it's kind of interesting hearing those stories of, you know, what what was what was the resistance that you felt? And did you feel any resistance from anywhere at all?

Jonathan Montoya (12:19.513)
yeah, I mean, I I I thought resistance every day, man. I mean, who wants to get up at 3 30 a.m. after you know working? You know, I used to work 50 hours a week and or more than that sometimes, and then having to get up early to make this YouTube video where the first sixty videos you're getting five, twenty, thirty views, right? So yeah, that's a ton of resistance, man. But I think the vision was just a lot stronger than

Paul (12:43.341)
Yeah, yeah.

Jonathan Montoya (12:47.405)
Then the day to day, I was just like, okay, I know. I remember reading the book Compound Effect, which is I think it's Darren Hardy, but one of my favorite books of all time. It was like, it basically the principle is like, hey, do this one little thing every single day. 1%, better 1%. Just keep stacking these little wins, right? For me, it was like making a video every day, no matter how hard it was. And one day you're gonna see how that compounds. And for me,

Paul (13:06.977)
Yeah, yeah.

Jonathan Montoya (13:14.167)
You know, the big one was nine months because I was able to quit my job, make enough money. but I'm telling you the first like sixty to ninety days, it was like dead, man. Like nothing was going on. I'm like, man, why am I doing this? Right. So yeah, I I faced resistance every day. Yeah. So it was it was wild.

Paul (13:27.097)
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. So what were those first videos about? You know, you said you you were you were consistently making them, making them daily, getting up super early to make them. What were they about?

Jonathan Montoya (13:40.312)
Yeah, that's great. So at the time I was I had finally like got into like affiliate marketing, which was for those who don't know, it's like essentially

promoting other people's products. so I was doing affiliate marketing and I was actually making some money with it. so naturally I was just teaching. but one of my hacks actually and I actually still do this till today. I I this is one of my best hacks I've ever I've ever figured out. But

You know, I obviously I was trying to learn affiliate marketing. I was like trying to learn marketing and trying to learn, you know, all the things you have to know with with that whole thing, right? Funnels and websites and SEO, everything, right? There's so many so much to learn. So I I didn't know any of this, right? So naturally what I would do is I would learn and then I would make a video that next day. So I was literally learning while I was teaching. and that helped me learn and like really understand for myself, right? Because when you have to teach something, it you really have to like

Paul (14:19.459)
Right, right.

Jonathan Montoya (14:43.211)
understand what's going on, right? so yeah, dude, it was all about like affiliate marketing, you know, funnels, AI or not AI, you know, how to get traffic, how to post on Instagram, Facebook, all the things that kind of revolve around the digital marketing world. Again, I knew zero about anything, right? So for me it was just teaching what I was learning in real time. and that's kind of what I'm doing now actually, because I'm trying to learn this kind of new skill with AI. So I'm

Paul (14:44.163)
Right, right, right.

Paul (15:11.939)
Right, right.

Jonathan Montoya (15:12.205)
I'm you know, I'm learning, then I'm teaching next next day or next week. So but yeah.

Paul (15:15.105)
Yeah. Yeah. I think that's amazing. And I think I think somebody needs to pay attention to that because, you know, we we sometimes get resistance in ourselves when we think that, man, I can't really teach until I have it all figured out. And I've I've, you know, I ha I'm no longer making any kind of mistakes. I've got it, you know, I'm an expert now, I'm a guru now, I'm I'm, you know, really good at it. And what you are doing is, you know, as you were learning, you were also sharing what you learned.

And that made a big difference for not only you and the learning sticking, but also in gaining an audience, right?

Jonathan Montoya (15:52.002)
Yeah, yeah, that's that's the biggest thing. I mean, you know, I I I knew like at the time I was I think I was monetizing with like some affiliate courses I was promoting and in some software. I think yeah, it was ClickFunnels at the time I was trying to win the Dream Car Award. but you know, the most important thing was the personal brand. Was like if I can build this loyal following, doesn't you know

It doesn't really matter what I do in the future, like I'll still have this very strong personal brand, right? And that's still one of the main things I focus on today is like continuing to grow the personal brand, grow the the the trust that I have with my audience, you know.

Paul (16:31.297)
Yeah. Yeah. So at what point, what was the tipping point where it actually started working? You know, you mentioned after about nine months or so, you were able to quit your job. What what what was the tipping point that finally put you in that place where you were like, man, this this is working. I think I can make this work. and what was what was the the measurement for knowing when that time was?

Jonathan Montoya (16:53.377)
Yeah, I mean I for me, I was like I I I needed a certain amount of money that I had to make consistently to be able to quit my job. at the time it was I think it was like six thousand a month that I needed to make. But I was like, I'm I just want to, you know, kinda like double that. And like so 10K was kind of my number. It's like, okay, if I can consistently make 10K a month with this thing that I'm doing while I'm still working my nine to five job.

I know I can make it work full time. so about six months in was when the when everything started to kind of come compound. started building an email list, started building a a small YouTube channel. I think at the time, maybe I had a thousand subscribers, which again is not huge, but they were pretty like loyal people and they they were buying the things I was promoting. so I was making money, I was building an email list. about six months in I started to make some money.

Paul (17:41.805)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Jonathan Montoya (17:49.9)
And then closer to nine months in I or from the six months to the nine months, I started making a lot more. So it was like, so this is kind of the timeline. It was like, you know, one month, two months, three, four, five, a little bit, and then six, pretty big spike. And then from six to nine, it was like it went up kind of a lot, like relative to what I was making before, right? So at that at that point, I was like, okay, we're going all in with this. If I can make it work while I'm working 50 hours a week, I know I can make it.

Paul (18:08.504)
Wow.

Jonathan Montoya (18:19.853)
work you know full time doing this right so that was kind of my timeline and I think the biggest part of it was just really doing the boring work and getting up early and and making a video every day like that was like the number one thing that I would say it is just really being consistent with that with that boring process right and yeah man

Paul (18:24.631)
Yeah.

Paul (18:39.685)
Right, right, right. So w at that six month point, you know, what what changed to then zoom up that trajectory to the ninth month point where you had this momentum and you had this exponential growth? what changed?

Jonathan Montoya (18:53.773)
Yeah. Yeah. So I mean, from so I I was making a YouTube video every day. So I was focusing on YouTube. I was still doing like TikTok and Instagram and all those other things, but YouTube was always my main focus. It still is till today. But the reason I love YouTube is because it does compound, right? So if you build your channel in the right way, so like building essentially creating content that

can can be seen you know six months down the road. That's how I kind of initially built that YouTube foundation. So I was, you know, the videos that had made like six months ago were starting to get found and recommended on YouTube. Now part of that strategy was

Paul (19:38.039)
Yeah, yeah.

Jonathan Montoya (19:41.45)
you know, b creating content that people wanted to watch later. Like I still have people watching my videos from five years ago because it it's relevant to what they're searching, right? If people go to YouTube and type in a certain keyword, you know, sometimes my video pops up, you know, maybe it's from five years ago or or whatever. So and that's why I love YouTube, right? I love things that stack on each other. you know, there's things like Instagram and Facebook, which I love by the way, but you only get like a big bump in views like the first day, maybe

Paul (19:52.086)
Right, right.

Jonathan Montoya (20:11.389)
two days. part another thing that I did Paul that was one of my hacks as well was like I would use the bump in views like on you know like TikTok and and and Facebook and Instagram but I would flood them to flood them to my YouTube channel, right? So basically I built like a I want to say like a YouTube in YouTube engine, right? So essentially I was you know I was doing all the things that I needed to for YouTube to be naturally

Recommended by YouTube itself. But then I was using all these other platforms as distribution, right? So I'll I'll give you an example. this is actually one I did the other day. So so there's a video I made the other day on like there's like this AI video. Like, hey, this is the five best ways to use Claude, which is an AI tool. Now

I made the YouTube video, 15 minute video, whatever. But then I made a short form video on like Instagram and TikTok. I was like, you know, like 20, 30 second video, same hook, same everything. I'm like, do you want to see the full video? Go to my YouTube channel, right? Boom. Distribution. Same thing with my Facebook. you know, I I'll make a post, like a text post. like, hey, five, five ways to use Claude. that's unfair, right? And then then I'll I'll I'll point people to the YouTube.

Paul (21:20.237)
Yeah.

Jonathan Montoya (21:33.23)
video. so that what that does is if you build the video the right way, it'll get found, you know, three, four, five, six months later, naturally. But if you're using all your other socials for distribution, you're able to give that boost. and then YouTube's like, I need to really boost this like right now. Right. So I I still do that till today. I mean I you probably follow my stuff on Facebook every once in a while.

Paul (21:56.867)
Yeah, yeah.

Jonathan Montoya (21:58.134)
but you'll notice a lot of my call to actions. I'm like, I'm just trying to get people to my YouTube video, right? I'm always just trying to build the brand, the personal brand. Cause I know if people watch my content, you know, a lot of people will resonate with my story. They'll follow, they'll subscribe, they'll follow on all other platforms, they'll build it, you know, they'll they'll join my email list, all that good stuff, right? So yeah, that's what I did six years ago, and I still do that till today, man. Same thing, just on a higher level.

Paul (22:25.965)
Wow. So for a lot of people, you know, when when they talk about building a platform, they talk about building a website. And it sounds like instead of simply building a website as your platform that you direct everybody to, you're using YouTube as your platform that you're sending everybody back to. that's pretty I think that's pretty big head smack for somebody because they might not have thought about it that way, you know, because they're thinking, you know, I need to build a website.

And then I also have all these other stuff that I do, YouTube and TikTok and Instagram. Whereas your strategy, it sounds like has been that your main direction that you're pointing everybody to is not a website, but YouTube instead. And I think that's that's a pretty, pretty interesting, interesting concept that maybe somebody hasn't thought about is that YouTube is the platform that you're sending people to and all these other channels are simply funnels towards YouTube.

Jonathan Montoya (23:21.293)
Yeah. Yeah, I mean and basically if you visualize it, i so I have like YouTube as like the main hub, right?

picture YouTube here and then everything else is like Instagram, TikTok, Facebook, X, all goes to YouTube. But then from YouTube, that's when I send them to my funnels, to my email list. And then now I, you know, now I'm building my list. But the reason I like YouTube is because really it builds a very loyal audience, right? People are able to

Paul (23:44.759)
Right. Right. Right.

Jonathan Montoya (23:53.55)
you know, resonate with my story. I'm able to teach them something. shorts are great, I think, for like you know, discovery and like kind of viral traffic, if you will. but it doesn't really build that that big trust with like YouTube, right? So I'll I'll I'll give you another example. Like I I I don't get like a ton of views on my YouTube. Sometimes I do, but you know, I I'll average like

three to seven thousand views on YouTube, which which is okay. and then like on Instagram, you know, I can get a hundred thousand views or whatever. You know, but YouTube, they're like watching ten minutes of you and they're learning something, whereas the other platforms are just watching a few seconds, right? So that's kinda how I see it. I'm not it's not all the same. If I you know, I I want people to watch a YouTube video and then go to my offers because now they're really ready to buy, right? 'Cause they're they're

Paul (24:25.209)
Yeah.

Paul (24:39.904)
Right, right.

Paul (24:49.838)
Yeah.

Jonathan Montoya (24:51.639)
What's the word? Pre pre sold, I guess you can say, but yeah.

Paul (24:55.201)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. They're they're they're interested. They've sh they've they've raised their hand and said, I'm I'm interested in what you're saying. And then what's next for me? And so I love that. And so so the strategy is you've got all these spokes, you know, these these, you know, Instagram, TikTok, whatever. Spokes go down to the hub of f YouTube and then from YouTube to close the deal, to sell sell whatever you wanted to sell, it goes to just simply a website that is

for the closing and for the sale, or do your websites serve a different purpose as well? How how are they are they simply just the funnel to close the deal after you've got their attention with YouTube, or do your websites serve a different purpose?

Jonathan Montoya (25:37.914)
so from I mean it depends on the offer. I I kinda have different offers now. because I you know, I sell software, I sell info, you know, courses, stuff like that. but typically we're all send them i is like a funnel, right? So but I I have a a lot of different funnels and we could get into that if you want. But I mean, for example, one of my funnels is like a low ticket, so it's like forty-seven dollars on the front end, and then you know.

On the back end of that, there's like a maybe like a $2,000 coaching program or something like that. but you know, from YouTube, I'll send them to like a $47 product. That's one like funnel. Another one is like a webinar funnel, right? So from YouTube, I'm like, hey, by the way, I have this 90-minute presentation that's gonna teach you XYZ. Then I send them to a funnel that you know, that sends them to a webinar, right? And then of course I have my just straight call you know.

Like I'll send them to like a my software homepage where they'll buy like my software. So kinda I ha I have a a variety of funnels that I'll send people to depending on the video. but those are kind of the main ones.

Paul (26:49.517)
Wow, wow. and hopefully that has helped somebody to look at how they're even creating their architecture of their business. because you know, for a lot of people they've been just it's the website, it's the website, it's the website. but YouTube is such a powerful platform for building this attention and also putting your brand out there, creating a personal brand. And the the great thing about it is like you said, there's people still finding your five-year-old videos.

Jonathan Montoya (27:02.297)
Yeah.

Jonathan Montoya (27:18.297)
Yeah.

Paul (27:18.381)
And that's getting their attention. And so it's also got a lifespan beyond just one simple ad or one simple thing that gets attention. It it's always there and it's gonna be there for a long time. And so it's amazing how that's worked for you. So so that strategy is that your primary strategy right now for getting customers?

Jonathan Montoya (27:41.73)
Yeah, yeah. I mean I do that. I do that till this day. I I've I've recently started using Facebook a ton. Facebook is I at least the time like right now, it it we're I'm getting a ton of reach. So, you know, I I I wanna use that to grow the YouTube channel, right? So you know, sometimes I'll push people to my funnels directly on Facebook, but

again, most of the time I'm using the Facebook reach to just send them to my YouTube channel. so that's working really well right now. I I will say as well, but back in 2020, 2021, the whole like, you know, pandemic thing happened and

Basically that's when TikTok really was like a huge thing, which was I was one of the first movers to to really get on TikTok for business. and I was, you know, I had built a following to like four hundred thousand followers. but again, I was making a TikTok video and then sending them to to YouTube. the reason why I say that is because some of these platforms will they'll they'll give you more discoverability and traffic.

And they'll have like their their time, right? So th there's a time where Instagram gave you more views than other platforms. there was a time TikTok did. There was a time, you know, X or Twitter did. so these there's these weird cycles where these, you know, these new platforms try to like really push your content. So right now, Facebook is making a comeback and I I'm really pushing it hard. Like we're posting ten, fifteen times a day on on on a personal Facebook and just just getting people to, you know, to all our products and and and stuff like that.

that so it you know personal brand YouTube.

Paul (29:28.94)
Now Facebook does like to keep views and eyeballs on their platform. How are you facing any kind of resistance from them sending people off the platform to things like YouTube and other other channels?

Jonathan Montoya (29:34.136)
Yeah.

Jonathan Montoya (29:43.224)
Yeah, there's a way to do it. So if you go look at my channel or my Facebook account, you'll notice what I do is I'll I'll create like a like a post, like a if you ever've been on Facebook, you'll see like the colored background has like the red or black, simple posts, like super easy. it'll be like hey, hey, here are like I said that example, here are five ways to use Claude for your business, and then you have a little arrow pointing down.

What you do then is you know if I say there's five ways, I'll have five comments, so I'll give some value comment number one, comment number two, and all the way to five. And then the last comment, I'm like, hey, by the way, if you want to see the full video on on me explaining the process, go check out this video. But that's in the comments, right? So you know, a lot of people do wrong is they'll put the YouTube channel or YouTube on the actual post, and yeah, Facebook will definitely throttle that because they don't want people to leave the platform. But the

Paul (30:31.459)
Yeah, yeah.

Paul (30:42.905)
Right, right.

Jonathan Montoya (30:42.939)
The reason why the I call it the comment ladder posts. the reason why those work so well is because if you have a really good like hook and headline and people are now in the comments, they're reading it, right? So Facebook's like, this is a good post, people are actually reading. so then they're gonna push that out.

Paul (30:56.588)
Right, right, right. Yeah.

Jonathan Montoya (31:00.221)
and that has been insane. Like I'm getting millions of views this way. I even spoke on on stage for Russell Brunson about like that strategy and and I even built the software around that whole like threads model, right? So I'm not sure how long it's gonna last, but it's been working great for the last year and a half and and we're just pushing it hard. I actually I just built a a brand new page from scratch on Facebook. This was a business page, not my personal, and and now we're we're posting like twenty three.

Paul (31:17.102)
Ha ha ha.

Jonathan Montoya (31:29.935)
30 times a day, just and that one's brand new. So we're trying to kind of really push the limit there. But but yeah, so that's what we're doing.

Paul (31:36.568)
That's awesome. So so what's for the the threaded comments thing you you said you built a software, where can people find out about that?

Jonathan Montoya (31:44.876)
Yeah, so so basically it's called freedomthreads.ai. And essentially what it does is it takes that framework that I just mentioned and just does it for you. and we even built like a Chrome extension where it plugs into Facebook and it like will will it'll add it in the con it'll add the post for you and then the comments below it.

But yeah, man, Freedom Threads is basically something I built for myself because I was like, I need a way to do this in volume, right? So you know, I built it for myself and then naturally people wanted it. So yeah, it's something we sell now. We have thousands of members using it. and we're we're all we're always adding like new stuff to it, for example.

Paul (32:11.16)
Yeah. Right, right.

Paul (32:17.955)
Yeah.

Jonathan Montoya (32:26.835)
Like it it it helps with short form videos and and and it creates images for you for you and a bunch of really cool things that we do now. But but yeah, it's been it's been fun, man. Just trying to just trying to be more efficient with our time, right? So

Paul (32:37.132)
Yeah. Well I

Right, right. Well, you know, that you know, posting you know, five different comments or ten different comments after a post is time consuming. It's awesome that you've created a solution for that for yourself that then became something that you also made available. So it sounds like primarily from zero or broke to you know, doing well was primarily affiliate marketing, right? Is that that that was the biggest thing? And so so now you've talked about AI and I I I want to talk about

Jonathan Montoya (32:47.565)
Yeah.

Jonathan Montoya (33:03.118)
Yes.

Paul (33:10.412)
that and what you're doing with AI. You're doing amazing things with AI at the conference we're at. you spoke on what you're doing with AI briefly on there as well. So tell me about that transition. Are you still doing affiliates or have you transitioned totally to AI? What's what's the new version of Jonathan look like?

Jonathan Montoya (33:10.563)
Yeah.

Jonathan Montoya (33:27.339)
Yeah, dude, that's such a great question. you know, it's funny, I yeah I I've only been doing, you know, this this whole like of this whole business stuff for, you know, only six years. And it's just crazy. I I've seen a lot of my mentors like just evolve over time, right? Just they're maybe not doing the same things. They're I don't know. I just seen I've seen that a lot in

I started like trying to like figure that out for myself. I'm like, what what do I want to do like long term? Right. So, so I I really started getting into AI because part of it was like, okay, I need to figure out like what my new identity is. and and another thing is like the thing that got me to where I am was just learning new skills, right? So

To answer your question, yes, I still teach affiliate marketing. I I do it heavily every day. I I affiliate a bunch of products, softwares, courses. there's a big launch coming up soon, so I'm really going like all in with that, you know. So I still do it very heavily, I still teach it heavily. but part of like learning or part of like how I got to where I am today is just learning the new skills. And you know, obviously everything's kind of evolving to AI, and I'm like, I want to learn.

So, you know, part of my personal brand now is like I'm teaching AI, right?

What now we can use these skills in marketing, in affiliate marketing, and creating content and building funnels. So essentially it's just another branch of of what I've already taught. It's not like I'm teaching, like, you know, hey, this is how we this is how you build a restaurant, right? It's not something totally different. so that's how I see it. a lot of my students have been loving the content. And you know, it's crazy because you know, we

Paul (35:10.849)
Right, right.

Jonathan Montoya (35:18.415)
evolve as like creators and and and entrepreneurs, but so does your audience, right? If you're doing the right things, if if you're teaching your students correctly, which is crazy, we've we've had over sixty five thousand

people by our programs and something. we've you know we've served 65,000 people. So a lot of that, a lot of those people have gone on to make millions, right? And my one of my students, Camila Markson, she's made, I think close close to maybe 10 million at this point. you know, Daniel Chow, Nathan Bachers, like they've they're all seven figure business owners now. They all evolve. What was that?

Paul (35:37.69)
Yeah, yeah.

Paul (35:51.322)
Yeah, I've had them on my podcast, yeah. I've had them on my podcast, yeah, they're amazing.

Jonathan Montoya (35:56.726)
Yes, yeah, exactly. Yeah. So it's just yeah, it's just crazy because as if we're doing things right and and teaching our students, then they evolve as well. So anyways, getting back to your question. Yes, so we're definitely get going heavily in AI, but just really just adding it as a branch to what I've already taught. I'll give you another example. So there's a big, you know, affiliate launch coming up.

Again, I'm still doing affiliate marketing, but now we can use AI to kind of help build lead magnets, build funnels quicker, get traffic quicker, right? So it it's again, it's the same thing we're doing, just you know, just doing it quicker and more efficient. So hopefully that answers your question.

Paul (36:36.45)
Yeah. Yeah, well a a and and it also prompted another question for me is when when did AI first blow your mind?

Jonathan Montoya (36:47.063)
My mind. definitely not when it first came out. It was pretty horrible. I remember messing with Chat GPT and I was like, this is just not good. I think it was in October of 2025. so not that long ago, but that's when I figured out that AI can actually create software. And that was like, my gosh, this is insane. So this was at an AI conference I was at.

Paul (36:51.406)
Ha ha ha.

Paul (37:13.305)
Yeah.

Jonathan Montoya (37:17.119)
which I'm speaking at this year by the way, which I'm pretty excited about. but anyway, so that conference, I was like, my gosh, this is very powerful because to be honest, I've always actually wanted to create software like back in twenty nineteen, but I didn't have hundreds of thousands of dollars. but I figured out I can build software.

Paul (37:20.58)
That's awesome.

Jonathan Montoya (37:37.41)
with a hundred bucks, two hundred dollars, right? So my first software that I built was Freedom Threads and then you know we got that to over a thousand members monthly reoccurring and you know it's crazy because I built it in probably like a month.

And I got it to market in like a a month and a half. So pretty quick, right? now obviously we're always refining it and stuff like that, but but we got it to market quickly, right? And that was just mind blowing, man. I was just like, this is crazy. so naturally we started we built a software just I think in April of twenty twenty six. no, no, I'm sorry.

Paul (37:59.244)
Wow. Wow.

Paul (38:09.624)
Yeah. Yeah.

Jonathan Montoya (38:21.443)
February of 2026, called Maker AI, which actually just helps people build software and gives them all the frameworks that we use. but anyway, so yeah, so that's that's what we're doing now is like really just helping people build software and and using all the marketing knowledge that I've taught people from from before. How do we get traffic? How do we build pages? And how do we build a system to get pro you know customers and sales? But but yeah, that was like the craziest thing, and it still blows my mind. I think I've built

dozens of softwares now in just the past eight, nine months. four of them are over a thousand members and the other ones are just like kinda just me having fun, man. It's just like a video game to me. I love building, so

Paul (39:02.714)
Yeah, yeah. I remember, yeah, for me, with AI, it was a similar experience to when I first held an iPad and found myself playing with an iPad. I I'd had an iPhone, of course, but I was I you know, I got an iPad and I was playing around with it and like a few hours later I'm like, wait a second, I've been doing all this stuff with just my fingers. And for me it was like one of those

Boom, like you know, head smack moments of I've I didn't touch a keyboard, I didn't touch a mouse. This is a new way to do things that I've never experienced before. And I hadn't had that experience until AI. And for me, you know, AI is not that old. Like it's only been a couple of years, you know, and that's what is is mind-blowing, right? And so for me, it was the same thing with AI, where I knew what I told it, and then when I saw what it gave me back, I was like.

Jonathan Montoya (39:36.505)
Yeah.

Jonathan Montoya (39:43.897)
Three years. Yeah.

Paul (39:56.313)
Whoa, that's mind blowing. Cause I I didn't have to give it all these other things that I would normally have to give a person or something else. I only gave it very little and it gave me back this amazing kind of stuff. And so it sounds like the same kind of thing happened for you with, you know, building the software is, you know, you were you were talking to it, you were telling it to do stuff, and what it gave back was exponentially.

Jonathan Montoya (39:58.382)
Yeah.

Jonathan Montoya (40:22.52)
Yeah.

Paul (40:22.83)
greater than if you had had to hand code it and hand type it all out and and whatever, right? And so w what what was talk me through that experience. What what was the what was the toolbox that you used for that? And talk me talk me through that a little bit. For somebody that might be like, okay, that sounds interesting. You've piqued my interest in this software stuff. what was that experience like before you built Maker AI? What was that experience like for you?

Jonathan Montoya (40:26.422)
yeah.

Jonathan Montoya (40:46.817)
Yeah, I I I've definitely evolved from like the first freedom threads I created, but I can walk you through that process. So one note before I go into it, I I do feel like I did have quote unquote an unfair advantage because of all the marketing knowledge that I had, right? So I do want to mention that because I was like, you know, I I've I've taken three companies to over seven figures. this new company, Maker AI. we're we're getting close to that.

Paul (41:05.935)
Yeah.

Jonathan Montoya (41:16.823)
so I think we could do it by the end of the year. but I do the same thing every for every business and I just wanna kinda mention that as well because it a lot of the things we do is like you know, building webinars, building low ticket funnels and be able to run ads to these things, getting affiliates to promote. so those are all the things that that have helped build all my businesses. So we can go we could go more into that in a little bit later. But

to answer your question, so the first stack that I used to build Freedom Thirds was Manaus. you know, at the time I was like, hey, I you know, I this is how I post my Facebook, the comment ladder.

You know, and I just talk back and forth with it. No, this this sucks. We need to do this. you know, back and forth, back and forth. so we built that, the you know, initial MVP, right? for you know, basically something that we can use and start selling with manus. now eventually I moved that to Claude Code.

Which I believe is just superior to any other coding right now, any other like AI coder. it is a kind of technical, so I don't recommend it for everyone, but now that's what I use to like completely code everything on Freedom Threads. Even like before we got on this podcast, I was like, hey, we you know, I need to change this, this, and this. Boom, it changes it in just like a few minutes, right? So that's kind of the stack with with Freedom Threads. Maker AI, which is our the big one that we're

Paul (42:43.108)
Wow.

Jonathan Montoya (42:51.201)
a partner on that with I don't do you Stefan Siancio he he's the owner of webinar kit do you are you familiar with that one anyways that one has like 20 30 thousand users he he's massive and that he doesn't have a big personal brand which I'm trying to help him with but anyway so we're we're partnered on makerai and we built that with lovable which is like a it's like a a wrapper

Paul (42:55.419)
no I don't.

Paul (43:01.037)
Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Paul (43:08.506)
Yeah.

Jonathan Montoya (43:19.671)
Like it it's almost like a a super easy way to use clawed code because essentially lovable uses clawed code. getting kind of technical here, but lovable if you want to build a app is probably the one of the easiest ways. I would say ninety nine percent of people should use lovable. and we built all of Maker AI using lovable. and and that one's just taking off. So but yeah.

Paul (43:28.312)
Yeah, yeah, that's good. Yeah.

Paul (43:41.624)
Yeah. So walk me through Maker AI. What is it? What does it do? What what won't it do? And who's it for?

Jonathan Montoya (43:49.122)
Yeah, so okay, so what we realized is like okay, people can now build software very easily. so that's not the bottleneck now. The bottleneck is now how do I get sales, right? So again, like I mentioned, the unfair advantage for me was I know how to get sales, I know how to run ads, I know how to create content.

Because I've done it with all my companies, right? So what Maker AI is, is there's a lot of things that it does, but the main thing is it helps with the marketing aspects. So I'll kind of walk you through it. So there's like four steps that it essentially helps you do. First step is it gives you a a really good idea on what type of software should I build, okay?

Does the research for you, it it's really good. And then second thing it does is it validates that idea. What are the keywords? Who are the competitors? Like it goes extreme, like who are all the YouTube people that we need to go reach out to, right? It's it does all these things. now step three is it gives you all the build copy and paste build prompts to paste into lovable.

so it's like, okay, here's the idea. Let's build it. And it gives you all the copy and paste. You copy that into lovable, you build your software in like a day. Okay. Step four, this is I think the most important, right? Is getting traffic, getting customers. So it's essentially it helps with organic traffic. So it it creates images for you, it creates your Facebook posts, it creates your Instagram reels, your YouTube videos, and then it also helps with ads. It shows you

How to run the ads. It shows you it creates the ads for you. and then there's another thing that it does. we built the marketplace so a lot of people that build within Maker AI can can put their software on our marketplace, and then we we get traffic for our our people. So yeah, man, it's been good. So essentially it's like taking my brain and Stefan's brain. he's like the ad the ads guru. He built his whole

Jonathan Montoya (46:00.216)
like webinar kit just using ads and then taking my organic brain and and how I built my businesses and just putting it all into Maker AI. So it's quite an operation, man. People love it. And you know, again, it's just it's just stacking on what I've already learned over the past six years, right? And it's taking my unfair advantage and giving it to them.

Paul (46:08.216)
Wow.

Paul (46:19.032)
Yeah, yeah. Now with you know, we're w as we've talked about, we're kind of in the early stages of AI. How do you make something that builds software future proof? How do you s do you see there, you know, as things change, as things evolve? You know, we have AI businesses pop up and close down, you know, AI, you know, learning models open up and close down. How how do you feel is it gonna be a challenge to future proof these, or do you feel that

Jonathan Montoya (46:40.728)
Yeah.

Paul (46:46.884)
There's something else that people don't understand.

Jonathan Montoya (46:49.837)
That's a great question, man. I love it. And so what I would say, and I I get this a lot with a lot of our, you know, customers that are using our software, and I'm like, look, the the biggest difference that yeah, possibly. Okay, so so it could possibly like someone could copy your software easily, but what they can't copy is they can't copy

your personal brand, you know, your results, right? So that's why I always tell people like I I I'm always telling my customers, I'm like guys, you need to be building a personal brand. You need to build some sort of community. so every everything I've built, like I always start with that, right? It's I have some sort of community element, right? People love community. With AI

We're kind of like alone, right? We're talking to this weird robot. Like it is kind of weird, right? So as humans, we crave that community aspect, right? So part of our offer is like, hey, you're also gonna get access to this community where you can talk to me, you can talk to Stefan, you talk to all the other thousands of builders. so that's a big part of it, right? A another one is is adding some sort of coaching element, right? So we we get on every every few weeks.

And we we coach our students. They get they can interact with us, right? Again, just and that's what sets us apart, right? So anyone that I I talk to, it's like, how do I stand out, right? If we have two of the same softwares, how can I stand out? And it's really like, hey, you need to really build some sort of system that people can can interact with yourself, can interact with other people. and that's all built in our offer. And people love it. And and

You know, I I'm not worried if someone were to copy my software because we have that foundation of community and on all the things we've built. So yeah.

Paul (48:41.06)
Well and when it comes to the software though, you know, the the future proofing that that I'm alluding to is, you know, what what if technology changes? Will the software stop working? Will do you feel that there's things in place that will avoid that? Like how do you see the future of software built on today's technology?

Jonathan Montoya (49:04.375)
Yeah, I mean I think part of having a software business that especially building with AI is is making changes. well we try to do it daily, but at least at least once a week, right? So a part of like when we build software is like we have like a a future request. So if someone wants something different, we'll build that in. but always always staying ahead of the curve and

In building what your people want. That's like one of our main things and main visions with our softwares is like we're building we try to build every day. So like part of what I'm doing now is I'll hire just people to use AI to code and just just add something better, make it more efficient. what's what's something we're missing, right? and that's the main thing. It's like we're always adding things to our software. because I'm sure there's there's people that will like build a software.

They'll go to sell it and they'll never touch it again. So that's the worst thing you could do. but but that's with any product at all, right? I mean, if you have a restaurant or a coaching business or whatever, like you should always be developing your product. You should always be trying to figure out what's gonna happen next, right? So, you know, I I I really don't see software going away. You know, yes, AIs get better. you know, I just I think that's all just the tools that it's gonna help your.

Paul (50:12.078)
Right, right, right.

Jonathan Montoya (50:26.359)
your business, right? Whether it's software or any other business that you have.

Paul (50:30.626)
Yeah. So I I haven't built a software yet. I I I I hope to do it once I get the idea. I don't have any ideas right now. Well maybe I do, but I just haven't articulated them. And so does does building through vibe coding or or whatever the language is, building software, is it like a subscription model like for Adobe Products where you you pay for a subscription, they have an update, they push the update to you.

and so the software that you're creating, is it the same way where you still kind of have control of the engine and people just basically subscribe to what you've built and so when you make changes, it changes their software as well, the one that they purchased from you. Is that how it works or help help me understand that a little better?

Jonathan Montoya (51:16.141)
Yeah.

Yeah, that's that's a really great question. so if you okay, so there's there's two ways to do it, right? There's the first way where it's like more more technical where you're using claud code and and then doing it. So the way that works and trying to make it as simple as possible is like I literally have like my cloud code, like right now I'm looking at it. That's connected to the the code base, which is GitHub. And and then

Then you have your own like database where all the data is stored. but basically the way I code the hard way is like I tell Claude Code, hey, we need to make this change. Boom. It sends a message to GitHub, it changes the code, and then there's a change. That's a very inexpensive way to do it, like extremely inexpensive.

Paul (52:08.814)
Yeah, yeah.

Jonathan Montoya (52:09.827)
But it's a little bit more technical, right? If you learn it, then great. Lovable is a subscription base. So depending on how many credits you use, so like the the more difficult the software you're building, the more AI credits you can use. And

You know, you you might be spending a lot more with lovable. However, the nice thing about lovable is everything's handled. The database, the hosting, you know, the sign in fee, like when people sign up, like all that weird stuff that people don't want to deal with, that's all handled by lovable. Only difference is you're paying a little bit of a premium, right? You're paying lovable to handle all this weird, crazy stuff on the back end, right? So, like I said, we have one of our softwares on Lovable.

Paul (52:48.675)
Right, right.

Jonathan Montoya (52:54.061)
but we are paying more for the subscription. I think we pay a couple hundred dollars a month. but that's a huge operation, right? So which is still not that bad, right? to give you some context, I mean, I think we built Maker AI originally for maybe like six hundred dollars, which is nothing, you know, for for what we've built, you know. but but yeah, you do have to pay the the monthly fee to keep up the database and stuff like that. But

Paul (53:00.633)
Yeah, yeah.

Paul (53:12.538)
Wow. Yeah.

Jonathan Montoya (53:22.113)
Yeah, the if you want to go really efficient, just do your own claud code, get your own GitHub account and you're paying maybe fifty bucks a month, maybe. Yeah.

Paul (53:30.914)
Yeah, yeah. Well, and I think for some people that that might not understand this fully, that's very helpful to understand because you know, it used to be when you bought a software, you got it all on a floppy disk or you got got it on a C D and that software resided on your computer and it was kind of like hard product on your computer. Whereas now it's a subscription based model where, you know, I use Adobe products and so I pay Adobe a monthly fee. They

you know, rent me the the the software, I use it. If they update stuff, I just hit update, it updates my software. And so that's that's the way that AI does this software is is how I'm understanding it. Is when you create a software product for somebody, you don't send them a package that's this set in stone finished product. They actually subscribe to something and so if there's an update, you update it on your side and if they purchase the product, they get the update.

Right. Am I understanding d did I summarize it right? Okay.

Jonathan Montoya (54:32.001)
Yeah, no, I mean that's typically how it works. now what's cool is, you know, if you want to make an update and you know, let's just say you ha already have a user base, you just go to lovable and say, Hey, I want to change this. Push the update. If you like the update, you hit publish and then everyone sees it. Really, no issues. so yeah, I mean it's it's pretty simple, man. It's it's crazy how

Paul (54:49.538)
Yeah. Yeah.

Jonathan Montoya (54:56.589)
Just how fast it is. Like my daughter built like her own kind of software. My wife is working on one now. in like a whole different industry. I've built a bunch. I just built one two days ago for basically I built it as like a lead magnet to one of the affiliate things that I'm doing. so again, I'm just using all the things I've like learned and just using AI, right? So like before I I taught

Paul (55:02.863)
Wow.

Jonathan Montoya (55:23.565)
you know, my students, if you're promoting an affiliate product, you should give something away for free as a bonus. Well now it's like, okay, let's create a software and give that away for free. Right. So th just all the things I've learned I just keep stacking on each other. But but yeah, dude, the the AI thing is is pretty cool with the with the software and just so much you can do with it.

Paul (55:42.575)
Yeah, you just said something there as an aside, which I think is a pretty powerful marketing lesson as well, is, you know, in in a world where, you know, aff when you're selling affiliate products, you're also competing with everybody else selling the exact same affiliate product. And you just said something there that makes you stand out is you stack on top of somebody else's affiliate products something

Jonathan Montoya (55:57.529)
Correct. Yeah.

Paul (56:06.87)
Of value that makes you set apart from everybody else, right? And that's that's a strategy that you've been using for a while, or is that a new strategy?

Jonathan Montoya (56:14.995)
yeah, that's that's a that's one of my main strategies that helped me be where I am today is is building a bonus, right? you know, last year in twenty twenty five I I promoted three of the biggest launches in the entire world. you're familiar with Alex Hermozzi's $105 million launch. I was number 10 in the world at promoting that because I had built a bonus. So I'm like, hey guys, if you buy this book,

Paul (56:33.794)
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Paul (56:39.459)
Wow.

Jonathan Montoya (56:43.725)
You also get all my stuff, right? So you get this, this, and this that I had built. you know, a month after that, it was Russell Brunson's offer lab. and I I I was number one in the world at bringing in leads and number three at sales. same thing, same playbook, man. It's just like it's it's so simple now that I think about like with doing the next launch, but just building a really strong bonus,

Paul (57:00.185)
Wow.

Jonathan Montoya (57:10.689)
And then I had another launch like two weeks after that. These were like back to back, which was insane. I won a free car, $10,000 worth of stock, and then all the commissions I made on top of that. Onyx Singal, he had a big event AI event and I won that one. and then yeah, now now there's one that's even bigger than all of these that's coming up. And I'm working on my bonuses, like I'm building software, I'm building like free courses, free PDFs, like all the things that just wanna give away when people buy.

Paul (57:14.948)
Ha ha ha.

Paul (57:20.782)
Wow.

Jonathan Montoya (57:40.633)
through my link. So yeah, that's that's always been huge for me. Like for any affiliate offer as is building a bonus.

Paul (57:42.392)
Wow. Wow.

Paul (57:47.692)
Yeah, man, that's amazing. And I can't believe how quickly this conversation has gone. So you went from broke to multimillionaire. what's a question that you wish I'd asked you or a head smack that you'd like to share as we wrap this up?

Jonathan Montoya (58:01.444)
Man, there's so much that man, there's so much that like I I'd like to talk about 'cause like I feel like one of the main things is like what were the what were the hard points in the business, right? Cause I've had a lot of things in just the last six years. And I I think a lot of people don't talk about those things, right? 'Cause I you know, business does go like this. It goes up and down. And you know, those times where I wanted to quit.

Paul (58:30.361)
Yeah.

Jonathan Montoya (58:30.403)
just recently because just things happen man like and whether it's life or business or people I've had some really, really hard moments, you know. so maybe I think that's one of the things that I would say like just so people know like hey it's not all sunshine and rainbows, like things are gonna happen, you know.

Paul (58:51.032)
Yeah, yeah. Well, I wish we had more time 'cause I'd like like to hear about all those things because they're a part of your story and they're about they're part of i I think everybody's story at some point. And so I guess we'll have to do a part two at some point later and go through some of those as well. but if somebody wants to learn more about you, if they want to connect with you, what's the best way to get a hold of you?

Jonathan Montoya (59:14.455)
Yeah, I mean best place to like just consume my content would be YouTube. Just go to YouTube and type in Jonathan Montoya. but if you want to like kind of see my day-to-day just more raw, Instagram would be Jonathan Montoya underscore twenty-four. or you can find me on Facebook, just search Jonathan Montoya. pretty active in on those, but yeah, man. Thank you, Paul, so much for having me.

Paul (59:42.286)
Now this has been amazing. And I'll put all those links in the show notes as well. And and Jonathan, I appreciate you coming on and sharing a bit a bit of your story and the exciting things that are going on both in the affiliate world as well as the creating software and and and software products and and we'll have to do a part two to this. love the conversation, man, and this has been amazing and you have a wonderful day and thank you again for being on.

Jonathan Montoya (01:00:04.13)
Yeah.

Jonathan Montoya (01:00:11.747)
Thank you so much, man. Have a good day.