Jamie Rowe / Lead Singer Kalamity Kills & Guardian

Jamie Rowe, lead vocalist of Nashville-based hard rock band Kalamity Kills, joins Paul to talk about breaking molds, surviving dark nights, and launching one of the most important rock songs of the year—“Starry Skies (988).” 

A former frontman of Guardian, Rowe shares his powerful journey from Christian rock stardom to forming a band that blends modern energy with authentic heart. 

This episode dives into the struggles behind the scenes, the raw moments of suicidal ideation that inspired their Billboard Top 40 hit, and how music can save more than just a soul—it can save a life.

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Guest Bio: Jamie Rowe is a veteran rock vocalist with a global legacy and a freshly ignited mission. Best known as the former frontman of Christian hard rock band Guardian—with 13 #1 radio hits and performances in over 35 countries—Rowe now leads Kalamity Kills, a modern hard rock band redefining impact and authenticity. Co-founded with producer/guitarist Jamey Perrenot (Taylor Swift, LeAnn Rimes), the band has charted with emotionally charged singles like “The Chemistry of Meant to Be” and the suicide prevention anthem “Starry Skies (988),” featuring Aaron Gillespie of Underøath. Rowe’s voice, both musically and personally, continues to be one of raw power, gritty hope, and deep purpose.

LINK: https://www.kalamitykills.com/

Paul Povolni, the founder of Voppa Creative, has been a creative leader for over 30 years, with clients around the world. He’s led teams in creating award-winning branding and design as well as equipping his clients to lead with Clarity, Creativity and Culture.

Headsmack Website

Transcript

Paul Povolni (02:38.072)
Hey, welcome to the Headsmack podcast. My name is Paul Povolni and I have another misfit with me. I have Jamie Rowe and he is the lead vocalist with Nashville based hard rock band Kalamity Kills and is finding breakout success with the release of their powerful new song, Starry Skies 988. Featuring Aaron Gillespie of Under Oath, an anthem for suicide prevention. The new single landed in the Billboard top 40, man. Well done. Thank you for coming on.

Jamie Rowe (03:04.502)
Good. Thank you. Thank you for having me. And as an independent artist, to be on the charts is pretty amazing. So and with a song as powerful as that, that, you know, touches on the things a lot of people don't talk about, which is, know, teen suicide or just suicide in general, and let people know that the 988 hotline is out there for them. And it's just it's been a good thing. But thanks for having me here today.

Paul Povolni (03:26.518)
Hey man, I'm looking forward to the conversation. so usually the way I like to start this out is just hearing a little bit about your origin story and you can go as far back as you want. But just, just let's, let's let, let us understand a little bit more about Jamie Roe.

Jamie Rowe (03:34.261)
Okay.

Jamie Rowe (03:40.99)
Okay. Well, my name is Jamie. I live in Columbia, Tennessee. My wife is named Amber and we've been married almost 10 years and life is really great. I'm at a point in this point in my life where like I seriously couldn't imagine being better. So I'm very grateful for that. I always say my story is constantly being written and I'm enjoying these current chapters right now. So that's good. But to be on the misfit podcast, you know, conversation with misfits. I think you've got the king of misfits right here. Cause

Paul Povolni (04:07.062)
You

Jamie Rowe (04:07.368)
I've never been one of those that's really felt like I belonged or fit in, like in specific situations and whatnot. But I do have an identity as a believer in Christ. I believe all that Jesus stuff. When people ask me what my theology is, say, I believe all that Jesus stuff. And that's really where I'm at. That has sustained me most of my life. I grew up in a Christian school and as a teenager and wanted nothing to do with any of it because the hypocrisy was just so loud.

But somewhere along the way, God got my attention and I decided to play music, you know, for Christ and start off in Christian. In my case, it was one of those things, I literally was in a church service and was watching everything and listening to everything. I had a great head knowledge of the gospel. I had a great head knowledge of Christ, but I wanted nothing to do with it. And I really felt, I didn't hear this audibly, but I really felt like God said, okay, I know these people, what they've done. What have I done?

Paul Povolni (04:42.68)
So how did it get your attention?

Jamie Rowe (05:04.79)
And I really came to that point where I realized, you I had no issues with God. I had no issues with Christ. And I decided, okay, I'm here. I'm open, you know, take my life. Here I am. And that was when I was 17. I'm 55 today and I'm still going, you know, I've been through the valleys, but I'm still going. really, you know, and I was in the band Guardian, which a lot of people knew in Christian music was a pretty popular hard rock band. You know, I think we had like something like 10 or 13 number one singles

Paul Povolni (05:05.025)
wow.

Paul Povolni (05:16.492)
Yeah, yeah.

Jamie Rowe (05:34.246)
Christian Rock Radio. We were probably on the cover of every Christian magazine. And plus we actually had videos on MTV when they actually played music videos. we got around 35 countries. to say a decade of my life making an impact through that, I can't talk about my life without talking about that. And incidentally, I just got back from Mexico City this last weekend performing Guardian songs acoustically for people I haven't played for in forever. And they still sing along as if we're still in active van. It's pretty crazy.

Paul Povolni (05:42.284)
You

Paul Povolni (05:51.16)
Yeah, yeah.

Paul Povolni (06:03.244)
You

Jamie Rowe (06:03.862)
But really the thing is then in 2022, I started a new solo record. And once I started that record, it to me, I was listening to music I was writing and I was writing more hard rock again. And I realized it doesn't really sound like a solo artist. It sounds like a band. And so I decided to come up with a band name to put on the project rather than just say Jamie Roe. I chose Kalamity Kills just because I thought it sounded cool. There's no deep meaning behind it. But the fact is Kalamity does kill. So you don't want Kalamity in your life.

Paul Povolni (06:28.046)
Yeah.

Jamie Rowe (06:33.718)
And so we made the record and while I was making it with my producer, Jamie Perrineau, I realized his involvement had gotten really heavy. So we decided when we went to mix like, man, let's, let's make Kalamity Kill a 50 50 partnership with us. And so we have, and we've, we've started the band. So the band you have today with Julia Bullock on bass and Rod Bodley on drums and Jamie Perrineau myself is, has been built over the years over the course of last three years. And so the solo solo album ended up being a real band. And like I said, you know, we're having billboard hits.

at this point is pretty crazy as an unsigned artist and we're very thankful. And like I said, you know, I don't view what I do anymore as Christian music. I just play music for everyone. And I think that's a great way to be effective. But the thing is, if I ever have a chance to say something a little bit more in my music, because the accent I do speak with is prominent, I'm always going to take it. So I hope to make our music heavy, encouraging, something you can rock out to in your car. But at end of the day, something also that's going to

Paul Povolni (07:05.666)
Yeah, yeah.

Paul Povolni (07:13.58)
Yeah, yeah.

Jamie Rowe (07:31.946)
dig a little deeper in your heart and give you something valuable for your life.

Paul Povolni (07:35.276)
That's so awesome. So backtracking just a little bit to your guardian days. know, you know, within Christian music, probably hard rock and maybe I'm wrong. Maybe hard rock has probably got the toughest road to trek within Christian music. so, so what was that like early on? Cause you know, Christian music has gone through evolution. It's gone through changes. It's, you know, it's, it's, you know, leans into a certain area and then kind of pivots and leads into. So what was that journey like as a hard rock band within?

Jamie Rowe (07:54.665)
Hmm.

Jamie Rowe (08:00.98)
Mm-hmm.

Paul Povolni (08:04.93)
Christian realm.

Jamie Rowe (08:05.812)
Within that time period when we were doing that, was pretty hard in ways because like I said, rock wasn't nearly as acceptable as is now. I cannot tell you how many promoters would put us in churches that they'd never had a rock band before. like, you know, we'd get there and like the church people were like really upset that we were there. You know, we had a lot of that and we were the first band in a lot of those churches that later, you know, when I remember some hearing the guys from Jarz & Clay one time saying, you

Paul Povolni (08:24.258)
Yeah, yeah.

Jamie Rowe (08:34.39)
We play all these venues and they say you guys were the first ones here, you know what mean? That we ever had and stuff, you know? So we opened some doors for some people and people like bands like Petra opened doors for us too along the way. But I always modeled more what we did as yeah, we were a Christian band. We definitely had a purpose. Our purpose was to talk about our faith through our music. But I always viewed us more along lines of striper or something or POD in the, you know, just like we want to play for everybody. We don't want to put ourselves in a box. So we always.

Paul Povolni (08:37.784)
Ha

Paul Povolni (08:43.726)
Yeah, yeah.

Paul Povolni (08:57.165)
Right.

Jamie Rowe (09:03.028)
made, you know, in Europe, we only played mainstream venues and stuff. There wasn't that Christian music separation that there is here. But it was really tough. But I can tell you this, and I say this with a smile on my face, you know, people always, you know, say, Christian music is inauthentic. Those people are hypocrites. They're just like the world and stuff like that. There is some of that. But I'm going to tell you, we all during that period, I'm not just speaking for the Vanguardian, but all my peers I dealt with, what we did, we really believed it. It was real.

Paul Povolni (09:09.58)
Right, right.

Jamie Rowe (09:32.566)
You know what mean? So when I go back and I see a YouTube clip of me in 1993 bouncing around on stage, you know, I may not have had the world's deepest theology and not enough life experience to know what I'm talking about, but what I'm talking about, I believed 100%. So, and so, you know, that's just, that's a part of getting, know, age comes with wisdom, you know, and I'm a little bit smarter now than I was then, but still remain at the end of the day, you know, I'm a believer who makes music.

Paul Povolni (09:32.663)
Right, right.

Paul Povolni (09:37.038)
Ha ha ha ha

Paul Povolni (09:59.426)
Yeah. Yeah. And so what, so early on with, with even guardians, what was some of the, know, you mentioned some of the challenges, you mentioned some of the things of being first, what was some of the other challenges that you had to face even within, you know, your songwriting and how you started, you know, expressing your creativity because yeah, you're definitely were the misfits, you know, and, hard rock is definitely the misfits. I've actually even batted around the idea of doing a podcast called the kingdom misfits. you know,

Jamie Rowe (10:18.613)
Yeah.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Jamie Rowe (10:27.68)
Yeah, I would be the first in line. I'd be the king of it.

Paul Povolni (10:29.006)
So what were some of those, what were some of that like?

Jamie Rowe (10:34.26)
No, if I understand what you're asking and stuff, just how we approached writing and stuff. First of all, like I said, we had a lot of radio success, but we never ever sat down and thought about radio when we wrote our songs. We just wrote our songs, you know what mean? And so, and radio happened to pick them up, which was great. But we always strive to just be a great band. And that was the thing. Now, lyrically, we always, like I said, we existed to speak about our faith. So that was always, know, there was an agenda with our music. It was, know.

Paul Povolni (10:46.199)
Yeah.

Paul Povolni (10:59.351)
Yeah.

Right.

Jamie Rowe (11:03.33)
Man, I'm sorry, I'm getting messages. I thought I silenced all this, I'm trying. Sorry. If anybody's just listening to this, my cell phone's going off. I'm trying to get it to creatively, like with Kalamity Kills, well, let me back up. With Christian music, I always put it this way. There's certain box lyrically that you have to stay in. You just do. And right or wrong, you do.

And so I always put it as like, we've got these three colors. They give us three crayons and they're three different colors. And you can only basically write and create with those three colors. Well, these days with Kalamity Kills, I don't live in that box. So I get those three colors, but I also get the additional five to six, seven, eight that also come in the box to color with. So I think creatively I've got a more freedom these days, but I don't regret what we did.

Paul Povolni (11:38.914)
Yeah.

Jamie Rowe (11:55.638)
You know, I mean, we, you know, we, there were times, I mean, there was, there was a point in, I think in 1993 that we were asked to open Bon Jovi's, uh, like South Asian tour, like in Korea and whatnot. And, uh, this was out of my hands cause management handled it. But part of that was they, you know, to do the tour, we had to do a beer commercial and, know, which to me, like, I've got nothing against beer. don't drink beer personally, but I'm not one of those, you know,

Paul Povolni (11:56.056)
Right, right.

Jamie Rowe (12:23.67)
people, can't drink, can't do the, you know, send, But we just didn't think that would be a good thing, you know, for the band to send the message like, hey, you know, they're doing beer commercials in, you know, Korea and whatnot. So we pulled off that. we missed some opportunities because of that. But I'm still getting back. I think you basically asked in a creative thing. And like I said, for us, we just wrote what we knew and we wrote, you know, trying to offer hope in that thing. the challenges

Paul Povolni (12:46.062)
Yeah.

Jamie Rowe (12:51.742)
would be more allowing, we do a really cool photo shoot in Paris for one of our record covers and with this really cool rock and roll aesthetic and the record label saying, you guys look like vampires, you know what mean? And refuse to include the photos and stuff because we're thinking of our audience and communicating that they're thinking about the bookstore owner that's gonna stalk our CD and see our picture, you know what mean? So those kinds of challenges were very real. We were definitely pressured.

Paul Povolni (13:02.754)
Ha ha ha ha ha.

Paul Povolni (13:14.028)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Jamie Rowe (13:20.726)
lyrically to, to, you know, to be very clear and not, you know, not really poetic, but to be very clear. And fortunately, I can't really point back to an instance where that prevailed, but there was definitely, you know, I'd written a song on the buzz record and it was just a love song. And I remember writing, singing the lyrics and the president of the label, who's actually a good friend and everything. And I remember he said, goes, you know, he goes, we're a Christian label. goes, we're not singing about girls here. We're singing about Jesus.

Everything. So, and so instead of finishing the song, I had Steve Taylor, who was producing the time, he wrote the lyric to it. I said, Steve, just, don't care what you write this about, just keep a romantic feel to it. And he did. It was, the song was called, are you going to keep your word? It was off the buzz record. But those, those were challenges and those are very real. People like to skirt around it and say they weren't pressured or something. No, you're, you're pressured. You know, it may not be spoken, but it's, it's pressure. Just, just like when you're giving interviews and stuff, you're pressured to say the right things, man.

Paul Povolni (14:00.59)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Paul Povolni (14:12.544)
Right, right.

Jamie Rowe (14:19.804)
And sometimes that's at the cost of honesty, man. If I would have been at a press conference for like a Miracle Mile record and said, hey, how's life? Well, life kind of sucks. The label issues means I didn't get paid properly and I had my electricity shut off this week. So life kind of sucks, but they don't want to hear that. And that was reality.

Paul Povolni (14:19.939)
Yeah.

Paul Povolni (14:41.812)
Right, right. That I want the real stuff. Yeah. Yeah.

Jamie Rowe (14:46.304)
But anybody, any of my peers in other bands like Bride, Bloodgood, know, Barencross, people like that, that I dealt with, we all share a similar experience. So it's like, I've got this little like, little community of people who all went through the trenches that we all kind of have an understanding. We know what life was like.

Paul Povolni (15:01.632)
Yeah, yeah. think, I think Jesus sometimes smiles at people that are fresh in their faith. they're not the, the, as well versed as maybe others, but they're going in a hundred percent. You know, I think he smiles at that more than he smiles or, or, or even enjoys people that will faithfully sit on the pew Sunday after Sunday and not make an impact on anybody around them.

Jamie Rowe (15:09.238)
Mm-hmm.

Jamie Rowe (15:15.646)
yeah.

Jamie Rowe (15:26.548)
Mm-hmm.

Paul Povolni (15:31.498)
at all. And I think that's what you guys are doing,

Jamie Rowe (15:32.267)
Yeah.

I think, I think absolutely. Even today, like I said, even though Kills not being a Christian band, it's the accent I speak with, you know, just like, you know, if I was, if I was from England, you wouldn't say you would, even though I can speak my best American English, you'd know there's something different. He's, he's, he's a Brit. I think when I'm on mainstream radio and you're hearing us next to corn and disturbed, may, you may catch there's something different about that guy. So that's, that's cool. But man, you talk about the childlike experience and stuff and that night, night, night activity.

Paul Povolni (15:42.605)
Yeah.

Paul Povolni (15:51.937)
Right.

Paul Povolni (15:58.306)
Yeah, yeah.

Jamie Rowe (16:05.214)
I kind of love that, I think when Christ says to be like a child, I don't think he means to be childish, but just to embrace that wonder that you have about all things. I could be a kid looking at this Coke can, mesmerized by this for like an hour, just thinking, man, somebody made this and this came in a truck or something like that, just to be open and wonder, have a great wonder. And I hope I've retained some of that.

Paul Povolni (16:11.904)
Right, Yeah.

Paul Povolni (16:19.416)
Hahaha.

Paul Povolni (16:28.588)
Yeah, and I think he wants us to have that wonder because, you know, his creation is something that he called good and he created it, you unlike, you know, you never see a squirrel going, man, what a great sunset, you know, or like, wow. Yeah, maybe they do. Maybe they do. But, you know, God created, you know, there's a part of him in us. And so, you know, he creates this this this wonder of things that that we should have.

Jamie Rowe (16:36.47)
Mm-hmm.

Jamie Rowe (16:42.038)
Are we not? No, maybe they do. Yeah. Yeah.

Paul Povolni (16:55.63)
And I think, you know, young believers, new believers, Christian believers, you know, they sometimes approach even their faith with that naivety and sometimes push the boundaries, you know, and sometimes push against those walls that they feel they're in. And they get kicked back. They get people that don't like it, but they're just trying to express their awe and their wonder in a way that is not the standard thing.

Jamie Rowe (16:59.349)
Mm-hmm.

Jamie Rowe (17:06.422)
Mm-hmm.

Jamie Rowe (17:19.766)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah. And you know, and I've got, I've got a lot, I know the grace has been given to me in my life. And so I'm, I'm way more willing to extend that to others too, these days, because I know, I know what has happened in my life. And like I said, there's a lot, most people I've ever encountered in Christian music are really well-meaning, really well-intended people. Yeah. There are, there are a few people along the way that found out a way to make, to make a buck and push that, but they're usually not on the stage, usually on behind the desk. You know what mean? So.

It's just a crazy world, man. But I'm just thankful that I have a good life in 2025. I did a lot to try to make sure I didn't along the way. Yeah.

Paul Povolni (17:58.754)
Yeah. And I think people, right. Well, and I think people do that sometimes and so often is they judge people. A pastor once said is we judge others by their behavior, by what we see and we judge ourselves by our intent. know, something to that realm. And I think that happens.

Jamie Rowe (18:18.006)
Yeah. Oh man, that's perfect. Yeah. Yeah. I, I said something recently similar to that. I made a little video post. I was like, you know, it's like, um, you know, when, when you do it, you're in sin, you're, you're disappointing God. When I did it, Oh, I made a mistake, you know, and something. if we, and that both, both are probably true to an extent, but when that thing where, I made a mistake. Well, chances are you made a mistake too, you know, and your story's not over.

Paul Povolni (18:34.445)
Yeah.

Paul Povolni (18:43.478)
Right, right, right. Well, and I think even, you know, in the eighties and nineties, you know, with bands like Striper and stuff like that is, you know, so quickly judged of, you know, that that can definitely not be Christian, you know, and the whole backwards masking and, you know, they're everybody's, you know, they're evil, they're, they're, you know, whatever. And I think, I think we judge so quickly when the intent, you know, was from a place of sincerity.

Jamie Rowe (18:56.97)
Yeah.

Jamie Rowe (19:00.829)
Yeah.

Jamie Rowe (19:07.636)
Mm-hmm.

Jamie Rowe (19:12.054)
Yeah, no, really. So, and especially with the striper guys who are like extended family to me, I mean, I've heard some of the stuff they put up with, you know, they've had, you know, people spit in their face, tell them they're not of God and everything like that. And, know, and the fact is what they start in like 83 or something like that. And they're still around today and they're, and they're still doing what they do. They went through a season in 89 or 90 where they kind of, you know,

Paul Povolni (19:31.5)
Yeah, yeah.

Jamie Rowe (19:38.964)
had really just gotten sick of being attacked by Christians and decided let's just be a band. they went through, their war's not mine. They went through a period of rebellion and God called them out of it, And so here they are, they're still making music, doing their thing. Actually, they shot a documentary film this last year and they actually came here to the house. And so we're like right here where I'm sitting is where I was filmed. just pure, just foolishness on my part.

Paul Povolni (19:52.12)
Yeah.

Jamie Rowe (20:08.05)
I got my weight under control last fall. kind of got sick of it and so I've lost a hundred pounds. And so, which is good. I still want to lose about 15 if I can, but you know, I'm okay at this point. Like, okay, I've lost the bulk of it. But man, when I saw some of that footage back and just saw my face all wide and everything, it's like, and if that is does get on a big screen, it's going to be like, monstrous, this monster guy. And it's going to have my name up there. But, I was, I was really happy to be a part of that. And, but

Paul Povolni (20:12.725)
wow, well done.

Paul Povolni (20:19.362)
Ha ha.

Paul Povolni (20:23.59)
Hahaha

Paul Povolni (20:29.294)
You look like an emoji,

Jamie Rowe (20:37.83)
Yeah, I think a lot of people are definitely misjudged, you know, and that's just the nature of humanity, it seems, you know.

Paul Povolni (20:43.894)
Yeah. Yeah.

Paul Povolni (20:48.248)
So, yeah, and I'm going to have Striper on this podcast as well. I absolutely love him. I didn't love him as much at first because it was like, that's so bad. And all the elders were like, they're terrible. So, yes, I probably had that album. I probably had that album. So I went in the less aggressive route of Petra and White Heart and all of that stuff. But...

Jamie Rowe (21:00.438)
I've got it right here.

Jamie Rowe (21:08.234)
Yeah.

Paul Povolni (21:11.246)
I want to hear some of the Jesus stories, because you are so out there with being so different in the Christian realm, what are some of the Jesus stories of you bringing your version of Christian music to people? What are some of the Jesus stories that you have from that?

Jamie Rowe (21:17.334)
Mm-hmm.

Jamie Rowe (21:27.606)
Man, I will tell you right now, and I would almost tell you that by the end of the day today, I will get a letter from someone or a comment or something that say, hey, I saw you guys in concert and blah, blah, blah, in 1996, 97. It could be anywhere in the world. And usually it's not so much about the music, it's how we treated people. And say, hey, I met you after the show.

Paul Povolni (21:50.732)
Wow, yeah.

Jamie Rowe (21:53.106)
and you said some cool things to me and it set me on a road to where I think and everything I get and, know, hey, I'm a pastor now. I hear stuff like that all the time. On the flip side, I also hear like, man, you know, I no longer have faith, but I really cherish how kind you guys were to me and everything like that and making an impact and stuff. And I just feel like, like I said, the story's not over. So if they go through seasons where their faith is dipped, God is faithful, man. I really believe that. But I can think of instances

Paul Povolni (22:02.166)
Wow. Wow.

Paul Povolni (22:19.532)
Right.

Jamie Rowe (22:23.45)
one time we were playing a festival in France and it was a Christian festival. And one of the reporters, you know, they're real big on press conferences over there. So after they set you at a table and it's like this big ordeal and a guy who usually looks like a game show host is hosting everybody. And one of the reporters came and stood up through an interpreter said, I know nothing about your music. I know nothing about your faith, but for some reason I felt compelled.

Paul Povolni (22:32.525)
Yeah.

Jamie Rowe (22:51.84)
to give my heart to Jesus when you guys played. And we're all like, and they're saying that they're interpreting and we're like looking at each other like, you know, that's when you really feel like, okay, God used us because we were singing in a language they don't know and stuff like that. So sometimes, man, you know, I understand God uses flawed humans and we all realize our flaws and to see that happen, like, okay, well, okay, cool. Maybe God really does use this beyond us just enjoying ourselves playing music, you know?

Paul Povolni (23:02.284)
Yeah, yeah.

Paul Povolni (23:19.564)
Right, right.

Jamie Rowe (23:20.534)
I can think of that. can think of plenty of times in Latin America where the language barrier... Now, we recorded some songs in Spanish and they did really well down there. I don't speak Spanish, but evidently I can sing it phonetically really well. Seriously, supposedly it sounds legitimate. And so I can tell you that there was another thing of all the things you plan as a band. Okay, we want to do this tour, we want to do this, we'll do this and that may take us to the next level of success. The one thing we had absolutely nothing to do with singing in Spanish.

Paul Povolni (23:32.936)
Wow.

Jamie Rowe (23:49.174)
Cause we did it, the label asked us and said, yeah, yeah, we'll give a shot. I put me in a translator and we forgot about the record. Then a year later we played Costa Rica and like everybody, the arena. And when I say arena, mean, arena is filled and they know all the words and they're singing it back to us. Realize we had nothing to do with that, man. And to this day, we all, we all recognize that. So yeah.

Paul Povolni (24:00.973)
Wow.

Paul Povolni (24:09.164)
Wow. And so, you you've talked about, you know, playing the arenas and everything like that. But when, when you first started and when you started launching into this, what was the moment that you realized, do you know what? This is going to work. This is, this is going to happen.

Jamie Rowe (24:13.067)
Mm-hmm.

Jamie Rowe (24:18.422)
Mm-hmm.

Jamie Rowe (24:23.914)
Man, to be fair, I kind of felt that from day one. I knew it would take some time, but I knew what we had when I joined Guardian and the record we made, Fire in Love with the Elephante Brothers, I knew we had something really special. And so I knew it was just gonna be a matter of time. Did I know what that looked like exactly? No, but I knew we were gonna do something because just from a music fan point of view, what we did was really good. And we put in the work, we toured and...

Paul Povolni (24:49.804)
Yeah.

Jamie Rowe (24:53.194)
You know, we always made sure that, you know, we didn't treat our fans like fans. We treat them like friends and thank them for supporting us and always made time for them. But I can tell you one time we were on set. I originally grew up in Indiana. I'm from a very small town called Oakland city, Indiana, like literally 1500 people. And I remember being on stage at Flavo festival in Holland. And I think there was like 12 or 14,000 people all singing along. And I remember on the stage like sitting there thinking, thinking,

seeing people sing back words. I wrote on the side of my bed, I sit there thinking, I literally stopped, I have this in bed in my mind, thinking to myself, I'm from Oakland City, Indiana, how did I get here? And I was knew that was God, you know? Yeah.

Paul Povolni (25:30.936)
Wow. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. I think, I think we all need to sometimes have those hyper awareness moments, like, you know, and those happen throughout life. Like for me, you know, when I first came to America and my brother came a year after I came to go to college and, you know, we took a school trip and one of the trips was in California was to go to San Francisco. And so my brother and I were walking across the Golden Gate bridge.

Jamie Rowe (25:39.51)
Mm-hmm.

Jamie Rowe (25:49.354)
Mm-hmm.

Jamie Rowe (25:56.309)
Mm-hmm.

Paul Povolni (25:59.514)
And I like had one of those moments, like, man, we're a couple of like young immigrant guys from the West side of Melbourne, Australia. And here we are standing on the Golden Gate bridge. Like it was one of those hyper awareness, like all your senses like popping off type moments.

Jamie Rowe (26:08.918)
Yeah.

Jamie Rowe (26:16.31)
Yeah, I completely understand that. And a similar thing when we got to go to Australia as Guardian, we got to go in 94. Same thing, man. was like, you what am I doing here? You know? And in the back of your mind thinking, okay, they're going to find out you're not really qualified to be here and kick you out. You know what mean? So it's like, I always had that feeling. Like I felt like we were in arenas that were like a little bit outside of our league, but God put us there, you know?

Paul Povolni (26:27.522)
Yeah, yeah.

Paul Povolni (26:32.877)
Yeah.

Paul Povolni (26:42.422)
Yeah, yeah, that is so amazing. And so, you know, we've talked a little bit about, you know, Guardian, but I definitely want to talk about Kalamity Kills and especially your new song and Starry Skies and kind of the journey that led you to write that and to put that out there. What was that like?

Jamie Rowe (26:48.726)
Thank you.

Jamie Rowe (26:58.453)
Mm-hmm.

Man, the song actually wrote that song, the bulk of it, I co-wrote it with Jamie Peranoma, my producer. He came in, I brought in a completed song and he kind of added some tweaks to it that really helped it come alive. But lyrically and everything mostly, I had it written and it was once again here in his kitchen. Everything I do happens in his kitchen, everything. So I had my acoustic guitar out and I remember scrolling through TikTok and I saw this.

Paul Povolni (27:18.51)
Hahaha

Jamie Rowe (27:27.63)
a like news report slash post about this girl in Indianapolis, Indiana. It was like, I think she's 10 or 12 years old, but she was being bullied at school and she killed herself and like, like hung herself. And so that was just such a horrible thing. And then, then of course I follow the story. I go in and I see pictures of the grieving family and this girl just how just sweet she looked and everything. And so the thing is she missed out on a great life because of some cruel kids.

Paul Povolni (27:52.844)
Yeah, wow.

Jamie Rowe (27:53.256)
And it really, it really got me. And then the thing is I've dealt with depression in my life too. Now I don't say this boastfully, but I don't know what happened, but in 2020 I was able to get off all antidepressants and everything. And then like, I just don't deal with that. There's some supplements I take like DHEA and NAC, which are natural supplements that seem to keep the anxiety at bay. But I just, haven't dealt with depression like that. And, but the thing is I know what it's like to sit there at the stoplight in front of a train.

and sitting there thinking, you know what, if I just pulled my car forward, all my problems would go away. You know, I've had those thoughts. think, I don't want to speak for everybody. I would think to an extent everybody does, but when you're in a depressive state, they're dangerous, you know? And so anyway, so I wrote that song just thinking about that little girl and because I thought there's a lot of people that probably feel this way and they're hurting and you know, and maybe they don't want to go talk to somebody.

Paul Povolni (28:36.492)
Yeah, yeah.

Jamie Rowe (28:49.206)
in family or friends because they're embarrassed. And I started thinking about the 988 hotline we have here in the US, you know, which you can text or call or anything. And somebody who's, you know, trained to counsel you is there for you it's a hundred percent free. So I wanted to make sure that was part of the title. So it's why the song is called Starry Skies 988. So even when you go to the Touch Tunes jukebox, you know, here in, you know, whatever Buffalo Wild Wings here in town, you pull up that song that 988 title is there. And it was just to create awareness. Uh, I mean, then, obviously getting Aaron from Under Oath, who has a pretty high profile.

Paul Povolni (29:12.92)
Wow.

Jamie Rowe (29:19.29)
drew more attention to the song than we would have probably gotten on our own. And he did a feature vocal and played drums. So all that stuff was just a great way to get the message of the song out. And, you know, and like I said, to have a success with it that we did, you know, he made up to 32 on billboard, which if your listeners don't know, or if you don't know, getting on radio as an unsigned band, when there's so much competition, there's so much, know, there's only there's only so many three or four minute slots radio has a day to add new songs.

Paul Povolni (29:47.448)
Right.

Jamie Rowe (29:47.702)
And to give us a shot was pretty cool. and we're still, I've never gotten the letter from someone that says, hey, I've heard this song and I was really thinking about killing myself and it stopped me. I have not gotten that. But in my heart, I'm hoping that's happened somewhere along the way. It's plant of the seed, you know? Yeah.

Paul Povolni (30:06.324)
Right, right. Well, and that's sometimes what it takes is just planting that seed because, you know, we don't always know who's going to be doing the watering. We don't always know who's going to be doing the reaping. Sometimes we're just called to be seed planters, you know, and we don't, you know, in our lifetime or in our situation or our circumstance, don't always see the

Jamie Rowe (30:10.41)
Yeah.

Jamie Rowe (30:14.518)
Mm-hmm.

Paul Povolni (30:26.798)
what that seed generates, you know? And so, I'm sure it's definitely making an impact because it is, and they say that depression amongst young people is higher than ever. Yeah, and so, in writing the song, were there moments that really hit hard for you because of what you had gone through?

Jamie Rowe (30:28.672)
Mm-hmm.

Jamie Rowe (30:37.694)
yeah, there's no doubt.

Jamie Rowe (30:50.294)
Yeah, just there's a certain line, if you listen, there's a breakdown period. like, you know, like there's one part that says, I can't fight the madness anymore. You know, that frustration, you get to a point where you've just been there and done that. And then towards the song, there's, there's hope. There's little sprinkles where one thing who is going to care if I'm alive. And then, you know, the lyric is like, the chorus is, you know, melancholy mine, poison in my heart tonight. You know, all this like, it's kind of painted negative, but as the song progresses, you get to the end.

where they call the 911 hotline, says, stranger on the phone convincing me I'm not alone. So it tells the story and so it ends in a hopeful thing, even though the first half of the song, if you just listen to first half, you'd this is pretty dark song, but no, it leads to hope, it just lays out the story. So creatively, that was cool as a songwriter to craft a story like that. like I said, I just write what I know, you And that was the best way I could tell that story.

Paul Povolni (31:45.07)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And so, so as, as it's gone out there, you've mentioned you haven't, haven't gotten the feedback yet. Um, you know, did you have a picture of somebody in mind as you were writing it specifically apart from that girl? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Jamie Rowe (31:57.814)
Yeah, that girl and then even myself, you know what I mean? And things that I've been through, you know, obviously, thank God I've never been to that point, but what's to say I wouldn't be, you know, if things hadn't turned around and stuff. I just, it just breaks my heart because, you know, I think of my life 10 years ago, today even, just how different it was. You know, was going through a tough time. I was actually going through a divorce and...

you know, basically, you know, sleeping on floors, semi homeless and to 10 years later, I have this wonderful life. And I think, man, what if I would have gotten really depressed and I would have missed all this, you know what mean? And so, and so your story gets better and this is not in the song, but it's something I always say when I'm talking about it is I remind people that you've survived a hundred percent of your worst days. You're stronger than you think. And when I know it sounds like a bumper sticker, but it's true, you know? And so I think, man, okay, this too shall pass, you know?

Paul Povolni (32:34.796)
Yeah, yeah.

Paul Povolni (32:46.39)
Yeah, yeah.

Paul Povolni (32:50.818)
Right.

Right, right.

Jamie Rowe (32:54.314)
But there's a 10 or 11 year old girl who didn't think that and now she's needlessly gone.

Paul Povolni (33:00.63)
Yeah, yeah. And so with with what you're doing now with even the touring and everything else, you know, what kind of crowds are you attracting now? Are you finding that there's a new generation coming up? Are you attracting?

Jamie Rowe (33:06.166)
Mm-hmm.

Jamie Rowe (33:12.566)
Yeah, yeah, I can catch you off there. It's funny. You know, the only thing I have really to base it on is Spotify statistics. And like my former band stuff, you know, our audience skews older. So it's like 45 and older. But our largest demographic listener base is 25 to 35 with Kalamity Kills. that's that's the like by and far the majority, you know, so it's a generation younger than, you know, Guardian music, because most of those people weren't even born when Guardian was around. You know what mean?

Paul Povolni (33:30.434)
Wow.

Paul Povolni (33:40.833)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Jamie Rowe (33:41.544)
So that's been cool. and, you know, and for the longevity of a band, that's a great thing to be, to be a part of, know, cause you know, they're going to stick with you for the next, you know, two decades, hopefully. But, yeah, I think the music of Kalamity Kills definitely skews younger. mean, cause you know, I, I'm not a metal core artists, you know, like I don't, you know, I'm not the, but there, there are elements of that music that I like and production wise, I put them in Kalamity Kills, know, Jamie Perron and I,

Paul Povolni (34:01.486)
You

Yeah.

Jamie Rowe (34:08.778)
you know, put our heads together, like, let's, let's make this killer breakdown, you know, like all this, you know, sci fi sounding guitars and stuff. And that appeals to a younger group, you know, and to be fair, older people I found, you know, the guardian audience don't really like to stream music, they want to buy a CD. And so it's, it's crazy. And a lot of times they don't get, you know, the, new style of, know, they, they want a guitar solo and not a guitar breakdown. So there's, there's been a thing. And I was very, very,

Paul Povolni (34:11.925)
Yeah.

Paul Povolni (34:16.525)
Yeah.

Paul Povolni (34:32.229)
wow.

Jamie Rowe (34:36.254)
Intentionally, I never tried to build kills off Guardian. I wanted Kalamity Kills to be its own thing, and so I didn't cross the two or anything. And it worked, it really worked, because we don't have the Guardian audience. We have the Kalamity Kills audience, which is smaller, but you would expect that compared to three years compared to 30.

Paul Povolni (34:39.704)
Hmm. Yeah.

Paul Povolni (34:54.784)
Right. And what other ways would you differentiate the two in what it was with Guardians and what it is now?

Jamie Rowe (35:02.292)
Well, like I said, with Guardian stuff, we were an agenda focused band. We existed to make music to tell people about Jesus. Kalamity Kills makes music with the agenda to make music and it's for everyone. if I want to write a mindless song about a summer day, I'm going to do it. But if I want to write something about a crisis of faith, I'm going to do that too. But always with the intention at the end that people walk away with a sense of hope.

Paul Povolni (35:13.358)
Hmm.

Paul Povolni (35:25.709)
Yeah.

Paul Povolni (35:31.864)
Yeah.

Jamie Rowe (35:32.148)
But I don't like to put us in the Christian music box because at this point, Christian music is basically for Christians. It's an encouragement thing. People will say it's evangelical, but then they'll go, they'll strictly play in churches and strictly play in the subculture. And that's not really reaching people. That's entertaining those who already in the group, so to speak. And there's something appealing to me that God gave me certain gifts.

Paul Povolni (35:39.758)
Hmm.

Paul Povolni (35:54.252)
Right.

Jamie Rowe (36:01.386)
And I don't just share them with certain people. I share them with everyone. and you know, it's like I said, I've built up a name in Christian music. some of the doors, I wouldn't do, when that route would open up a little bit easier, but that's just not where my heart is right now. My heart is just to be real, authentic and scars and all show it all. This is who I am through music.

Paul Povolni (36:04.408)
Yeah.

Paul Povolni (36:15.831)
Yeah, yeah.

Paul Povolni (36:22.87)
Yeah, yeah. Well, and there are some people that are fine with just fishing in the fish tank, you know, but, but, Jesus also said, you know, I want you to go out and I want you to go cast some nets in new places, you know,

Jamie Rowe (36:27.542)
Mm-hmm. No, that's exactly

Jamie Rowe (36:32.074)
Mm-hmm.

Jamie Rowe (36:35.57)
Yeah. Well, not to get too deep, but man, Jesus, you know, I think I can't find in scripture where he really condemned sinners, but he had a whole lot of condemnation for the religious folks. You know what mean? So it's like, I think he had compassion for people who didn't know him and had a lot of, I'm not going to say disappointment, just like, or even anger, just like, okay guys, get together to the people who were, you know, flying the flag for him, you know.

Paul Povolni (36:44.546)
Yeah.

Paul Povolni (37:02.487)
Yeah.

Jamie Rowe (37:02.61)
And I don't think anybody, you what's the scripture where he says, you go across, you know, the earth and seas to find one convert to make him twice the son of hell as you. I don't know the exact thing, but you know, sometimes I think, okay, did the church get that memo and did they change course? I really don't think so. You know what mean? So we still got a lot about that. So I would rather be in a room where one person walks away.

Paul Povolni (37:13.326)
Yeah. Yeah.

Paul Povolni (37:21.166)
Hmm.

Jamie Rowe (37:31.37)
considering eternity than a whole room that considered it from the beginning and are just attending the pep rally, if that makes sense.

Paul Povolni (37:39.726)
Wow. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, and without having a label also dictate to you what, the formula is, like you mentioned early on about giving you the three crayons and say, we can do anything you want, but you got to use these three crayons. You know, now you've got the liberty to do whatever you want and write that love song. You know, if you want to.

Jamie Rowe (37:46.206)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Jamie Rowe (37:51.604)
Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Jamie Rowe (37:58.134)
Yeah, I can and I have, know, even in starry skies, you know, I said, damn, which, know, a lot of people, and the thing is, it wasn't just so I could cuss, but when you're in that kind of pain, when you say, it's so damn hard to find, you know, that's real. And that's another thing where I chose realism over, you know, like sanitizing it and stuff. So, within Christian music, I couldn't do that, you know.

Paul Povolni (38:11.694)
Yeah.

Paul Povolni (38:18.967)
Right.

Yeah. Yeah. I think there was a Justin Bieber song recently, that he sang where he was, it was like super transparent about, you know, his life growing up. And I can't remember the title. I kind of didn't, you know, mention the lyrics, but I do remember that, that he had cussed in that, but it was such a dramatic, necessity for the song and for the, the, it was about that it was almost to, shock you because it was like almost his heart felt.

Jamie Rowe (38:32.214)
Mm-hmm.

Jamie Rowe (38:43.058)
It communicated. Yeah.

Paul Povolni (38:49.934)
cry of him about his growing up. And then, then he, cusses in it and, it, and it's there for impact to, to sometimes stir people up and saying, this is you, you didn't give an F about this, you know, and, and, and it worked. And I think you even sang it on Saturday night live. And so, so I understand, you know, where you're coming from in, in, in including that word, because you're dealing with such a topic that we sometimes don't want to talk about, or we.

Jamie Rowe (38:52.406)
Mm-hmm.

Jamie Rowe (39:01.366)
Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, for real.

Jamie Rowe (39:08.415)
Well.

Jamie Rowe (39:15.412)
Yeah.

Paul Povolni (39:20.076)
and know about but we don't know how to talk about it.

Jamie Rowe (39:22.452)
or we want to give them all the answers before we even know the question. You know what mean? So, yeah.

Paul Povolni (39:26.776)
Wow, yeah. And so what's next for Kalamity Kills? Where are you going next?

Jamie Rowe (39:32.766)
Okay. Well, Columbia kills, you know, we, we released the first record independently through ourselves, you know, we did a Kickstarter campaign and we've kept purposefully, purposefully kept like copies to a minimal to encourage streaming and whatnot. But I believe it's September. I want to say September 18th or sometime in September, we're releasing a deluxe edition of the record with like five or six new versions of songs to add it to it. So to a lot of people,

that's actually gonna be their first exposure to the band because it's gonna be an actual release where it's coordinated. We've got press lined up for it and everything. it's gonna be, meet Kalamity Kills again for the first time. You know what mean? We've got a new single called Afraid that's out right now that's on the US and it's on media base. It's 44 this week. I think on Billboard it's 45. So we have another song that's climbing the chart, which as I said, once again, I'm super grateful because it's just,

Paul Povolni (40:11.63)
Nice.

Jamie Rowe (40:29.342)
You know, they say like a helicopter shouldn't fly on paper. If you draw it out or somebody always say that same thing here. Like Kalamity Kill should not be on the charts, but here we are, you know, but it's afraid is about basically just, you know, not being afraid. I mean, it's, it's a title, but it's like, it's, it's about gatekeepers and people trying to tell you, keep you down, hold you down when you've got a voice and it says, and you know, I don't.

Paul Povolni (40:32.912)
Hahaha

Paul Povolni (40:37.248)
Yeah. So what's that? What's that latest song about?

Jamie Rowe (40:53.398)
It's so funny because it's almost political and it was never intended to be a political song. And I think this song is not left or right, but it's for anybody who's fed up says we don't bow to the throne of enemies. We don't back down to your lame hostilities. know, everybody in their life encounters, maybe it's somebody, a boss or someone at work that just doesn't like them and wants to keep them down or something like that. They come up with a good idea. Oh, that's great. But blah, blah, blah. It's about just kind of standing up for your beliefs and everything and not being afraid. You know, it's like never be afraid. mean, I don't, I don't know how to complicate that more than that really is, you know.

Paul Povolni (41:11.096)
Yeah.

Paul Povolni (41:16.056)
Yeah.

Paul Povolni (41:22.306)
Yeah, yeah.

Jamie Rowe (41:22.942)
And it's an anthem and it's a, once again, have Ray from Korn playing drums on it. So the Korn audience, that brings a lot of eyeballs into, but it's going well. I think it's one of our best songs. So thank you.

Paul Povolni (41:32.963)
Yeah.

Paul Povolni (41:37.698)
Wow, well, proud of you guys and all that you're doing, man, and appreciate you and the song Starry Skies. And I've listened to it and I've enjoyed it. I've shared it with my kids. You know, because, you know, it is a topic that needs to be talked about. you know, statistics are saying that kids are dealing with some of those issues more and more. The TikTok generation and having something out there that speaks to them in a way that they understand and in a way that they can relate to is super powerful.

Jamie Rowe (41:46.79)
right on. Yeah.

Jamie Rowe (41:52.054)
Mm-hmm.

Jamie Rowe (42:06.812)
Yeah, and kids are growing up a lot faster than they used to. A lot faster than I did, that's for sure.

Paul Povolni (42:09.774)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, man, this has been amazing. I absolutely have loved this conversation and, proud of what you guys are doing. And this is just amazing.

Jamie Rowe (42:14.752)
Thank you. Dude, I love you. Yeah.

Jamie Rowe (42:20.904)
Like I said, man, if you ever want to talk to the king of misfits, you're looking at him. And so I'm pretty stoked. And like I said, but at the same time, I want people to see like, look, man, I'm a bit of a goofball. don't have everything together, but I do have hope, man. And since I was 17, I always say, I believe all that Jesus stuff, man. I really do. I, you know, no matter who I meet, no matter if they're the polar opposite of me, I always remind myself, you know, as a blue, I believe we're all made in the image of God, the image of the creator.

Paul Povolni (42:25.069)
Ha ha.

Paul Povolni (42:39.214)
Yeah.

Jamie Rowe (42:49.632)
and I've never met someone who wasn't. I try to extend love and kindness to those around me, much like we're called to, even if they don't agree with me.

Paul Povolni (42:51.916)
Yeah.

Paul Povolni (42:59.158)
Right. Right. Right. And that's ultimately what we're called to is to love everybody, not necessarily have to agree with them, but definitely have to love them and honor them. So, man, I love this. And is there one question that you wish I'd asked you? Because I don't want to leave my guest feeling, man, I wish you'd asked me this because I really wanted to say it.

Jamie Rowe (43:07.381)
Yeah.

Jamie Rowe (43:18.102)
No, I can't think of anything, but I can tell you this when we started the interview, I don't know if this was part of it. There was a storm, it was the middle of a severe storm and now it's perfectly sunny skies. So welcome to Tennessee. that just showed, that's an analogy. Everything always works out. but it's, I know if people want to check out the band, go to calamitykills.com. of our social links are there and it's with a K calamity. But man, I could sit here and tell you like how much I love my band and whatnot. But the bottom line is if you listen to it,

Paul Povolni (43:32.92)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Jamie Rowe (43:47.466)
And you like it? Great. If you don't, there's plenty of music out there for you too. You know, I just know everybody has different tastes, but I'm thrilled to death when somebody checks in to our music and connects with it.

Paul Povolni (43:57.174)
And I'll definitely put the link in the show notes and I definitely encourage you to check it out, share it, share it with your kids, share it with your friends. And let's get them some encouragement. Let's get them something that can listen to and know that there's somebody out there that relates. There's somebody out there that cares about them. yeah, definitely check out calamitykills.com. Check out the music, get the new album, get the new song, download it.

Jamie Rowe (43:59.414)
Thank you.

Jamie Rowe (44:23.51)
Yes.

Paul Povolni (44:24.243)
And I appreciate you, Jamie, and this has been an amazing conversation.

Jamie Rowe (44:27.744)
Thank you, my brother.