Eric Thayne / The KING of Short Form Video. Creator. Entrepreneur

Eric Thayne, dubbed "The King of Short Form Video," breaks down his proven framework for building a wildly profitable personal brand in 2025. 

After starting 28 different businesses throughout his life, Eric reveals the critical alignment between creativity and entrepreneurship that finally unlocked his success. 

Most entrepreneurs struggle with content creation because they're trying to be someone they're not, following strategies that don't align with their authentic selves. This leads to burnout, inconsistency, and ultimately business failure.

 Imagine having complete alignment between who you are and how you show up online. Content creation feels effortless because you're simply expressing your true expertise and perspective. You attract premium clients who value your unique approach, and you build a sustainable business that energizes rather than depletes you.

Eric Thayne's "Create, Don't Capture" framework provides a step-by-step approach to building a personal brand that's authentically you while strategically positioning your unique strengths. Stick around to discover how this approach helped Eric build multiple seven-figure businesses and how you can apply the same principles to your own brand.

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Eric Thayne is an entrepreneur and creator who has helped scale multiple seven-figure brands through organic content and creative marketing techniques. His entrepreneurial journey began at age 13, designing t-shirts for bands on MySpace, and evolved through recording studios, filmmaking, course creation, and now personal branding. Dubbed "The King of Short Form Video" by industry experts, Eric has generated over 500 million views on social media and been featured in People, Cosmopolitan, Huffington Post, and Associated Press. His recently published book "Create, Don't Capture" provides entrepreneurs with a step-by-step guide to building profitable personal brands.

NEW Book Link: Create Don't Capture

Paul Povolni, the founder of Voppa Creative, has been a creative leader for over 30 years, with clients around the world. He’s led teams in creating award-winning branding and design as well as equipping his clients to lead with Clarity, Creativity and Culture.

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Transcript

Paul Povolni (02:51.022)
Hey, welcome to the Headsmack Podcast My name is Paul Povolni and I'm excited to have another Misfit with me. I have Eric Thayne with me. And if you want to build a wildly profitable personal brand and grow your business in online in 2025, Eric Thayne is your guy. Eric is an entrepreneur and a creator who has helped scale multiple seven figure brands with organic content and creative marketing techniques dubbed the king of short form video.

by industry experts. Eric has garnered over 500 million, that's a lot of zeros, views on social media and has been featured in People, Cosmopolitan, Huffington Post, and the Associated Press. His video techniques and content systems are used by creators all over the world. Eric, welcome, man.

Eric Thayne (03:39.783)
Hey, thanks for having me on, Paul. Appreciate it.

Paul Povolni (03:42.018)
Hey, thanks for being on and I'm excited about this conversation. Excited to hear about some of your thoughts on content. I know you have a new book out. I want to talk about that as well. But before we get started, I want to hear a little bit about your origin story. I'm into superheroes. I love great stories. so tell me about the origins of Eric and you can go as far back as you want to go back as you feel will be relevant to the story of where you're at.

Eric Thayne (04:05.821)
Yeah, well, we won't go too far back. But I will say that I got into the online game as an entrepreneur and building businesses when I was 13 years old. So I started my first business when I was 13. was always, you know, from just when I was a kid, like always was interested in like creativity and creating stuff and drawing and art and music and video and all that kind of stuff. But then I also had this like, this thing inside of me that was like, I want to figure out how to build something big with this. I want to

and I want to be able to make money from it. had that that entrepreneurial bug, you know what I'm talking about. And I remember having that from from a very young age. And, you know, was around. No, actually not. I'm, I'm the only one in my whole family, whole extended family, like it just, it's a really weird thing. But for some reason, the bug bit me. And I got it. And, you know, 1314 years old, I started my first business on myspace.

Paul Povolni (04:37.699)
Yeah.

Paul Povolni (04:41.772)
Now, were either of your parents entrepreneurs?

Paul Povolni (04:46.721)
Wow.

Eric Thayne (05:03.709)
So, you know, if you remember the MySpace days, and I was designing t-shirt designs for Screamo bands on MySpace. And then I was, you know, hooking up to PayPal and they were paying me like people from all over the world. And, you know, I was 13 years old. I don't think that I realized how revolutionary that was, that I was able to work with people all over the world. Like that was very, very new. You didn't used to be able to do that. And so, yeah.

Paul Povolni (05:04.596)
yes.

Paul Povolni (05:24.759)
Yeah.

Paul Povolni (05:31.534)
So did you learn this? where did, like if nobody in your family was an entrepreneur, where did this come, like this, it seems so different to say, you know, it came from nobody in my family, but I'm doing it. Was there something you read? Was there somebody you saw? Was it a movie? Was it a book? Like what sent you on that route?

Eric Thayne (05:52.357)
a good question. I think I think a huge catalyst for it was one of my good friends. When I was 13, we had just moved to Iowa. And I made friends with a new kid there. And he was a but I had the desires before that. So I saw it was like it was like this desire. didn't I don't think I necessarily knew what to do with it or how to do it. I had lemonade stands and stuff growing up and

Paul Povolni (06:15.512)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Eric Thayne (06:19.493)
Maybe that was it. Like even though my parents weren't entrepreneurial, they did encourage stuff like that. We would do lemonade stands or we would, my next door neighbor and I, we went and like, we would like pick up rocks from the neighbor's yards and paint them and then try to sell them or just like random stuff. So I think it was that kind of thing. I mean, I definitely grew up really, my parents were very frugal and like very like financially conscious. so

Paul Povolni (06:34.008)
hahahaha

Eric Thayne (06:46.161)
We didn't buy stuff. didn't go out to eat. We didn't have any of that. I think that might've also kind of created an environment where I wanted to, right? Because I wanted to able to do more. I wanted to be able to do things. Yeah. Yeah. So, but anyway, but I had a really good friend when I was 13, who was a, he was a nerd of all nerds, like just a phenomenal web developer and had all the computers and stuff. 13 years old, just like a really brilliant.

Paul Povolni (06:55.49)
Right, a little bit of extra something, yeah.

Paul Povolni (07:06.222)
You

Eric Thayne (07:13.629)
thing and I was super interested in that. I started hanging out with them and you started sharing with me all that kind of stuff and how it works and started learning coding and web development and really started getting into design more so graphic design and then and then I was around my time MySpace is coming out and so MySpace is a thing and so started figuring out how to use a you know PayPal was brand new at the time and then I was getting paid on PayPal and then and then from there it just kind of evolved over time into you know I went from

Paul Povolni (07:35.052)
Yeah, yeah.

Eric Thayne (07:41.191)
graphic design into web development and then into like iPhone development and started building apps. And then I got into music really heavy because I never wanted music to be a career. But then at one point I was like, I think I do want it to be. So I started performing on the piano. And so was doing shows and concerts and recording music. And then I started a recording studio and then I was in the recording studio. That recording studio kind of got me into YouTube and I started working with YouTubers and helping musicians grow on YouTube. I started my own

Paul Povolni (07:57.175)
Wow.

Eric Thayne (08:10.139)
YouTube channel making music videos and grew that up, had a few like really big viral videos that I made doing that. And then that got me into video production more professionally. And I was like, I really like the video side of it. And so I started making videos and then doing more professional productions for like luxury hotel brands and big commercials and, things like that. And then the big commercials. Yeah.

Paul Povolni (08:31.552)
And this is a solo-opener or was this with a team or... Wow! Wow!

Eric Thayne (08:35.099)
Yeah, no, just, just me like just kind of going through all the stuff and all this was before I was married. And then, you know, while I was a filmmaker and doing all this stuff, and then I got married. And then this is when I was like 25 now. And then a year later was when I was introduced to like the click funnels and internet marketing community, and started to understand that and I was like, I could create a course about this and so that I created a course about filmmaking.

I worked on that for like seven or eight years. We built that up to multiple millions. And we had 15,000 filmmakers in a hundred countries around the world in our community, paid paying customers. And, and so built that up. then, and then it was a few years ago when the newest iteration of Eric Thane happened, where it's really interesting because you see me jump from thing to thing to thing to thing to thing throughout my life.

Paul Povolni (09:22.67)
Ha ha ha.

Eric Thayne (09:29.937)
but this is the first time where everything just came full circle. And suddenly it was like now the combination of all of those things and all of those skillsets that have been preparing me for this moment all came together into what I do now, which is helping entrepreneurs build their business online. And it's not just, you know, everybody out there's helping you build your business, but it's really from the perspective of being an entrepreneur and a creative. And if you're an entrepreneur,

Paul Povolni (09:40.6)
Yeah.

Eric Thayne (09:57.223)
how to understand the creative part, the creating content, the branding, the stuff like that to make that make sense. If you're a creative, how to understand the entrepreneur part, the business and the money making part and scaling and all that kind of stuff. And that has just become really, it's just all come full circle. And so now that's what I do. And I feel like I'm better, you know, not to pat myself on the back, but I feel like I'm better poised to do it than almost anyone just because of my background and my experience. Like for me, this has been 20 years of doing this.

Paul Povolni (10:15.043)
Yeah.

Eric Thayne (10:27.229)
this stuff specifically branding, design, music, video, social media, like, you know, like you mentioned, we produced over 500 million views for clients on YouTube. That was back when a view actually meant something. Right? You remember that? Like it was actually somebody had to watch a video for a significant amount of time for it to even count as a view, not like, you know, tick tock today, if somebody scrolls past your video, then it counts.

Paul Povolni (10:27.917)
Right.

Paul Povolni (10:43.15)
Yeah, yeah.

Paul Povolni (10:53.334)
Right, right.

Eric Thayne (10:54.235)
So that was, that was significant. And then obviously we've done, that was just on YouTube. We've done a ton more on TikTok and Instagram, but I don't like sharing those numbers as much because it's just not as real to me. but yeah, I've been through all of that and that's where I'm at now. That's, that's what I do.

Paul Povolni (11:06.112)
Yeah. Yeah.

Paul Povolni (11:11.512)
Well, man, I definitely want to dive into that. I do want to go back. Like you mentioned, you had, you've done a whole broad range of things. which of those were the, the failures, were there any, or was it just an upward, arc for everything that you did, or were there some, ones that you were some really learning head smack moments for you? And what were, what were your first successes where you were like, okay, I think, I think I can do this. I think I can make this something.

Eric Thayne (11:40.955)
Yeah. I guess it all depends on how you define a failure because the only time a failure isn't a stepping stone is if you give up. Right. So, so yeah, I mean, I actually went back and counted just recently. was like, how many different businesses or offers have I created? And my best count was 28 different businesses that I've started throughout my life. And most of them never amounted to anything.

Paul Povolni (11:50.134)
Love that, yeah.

Paul Povolni (12:02.702)
Wow.

Eric Thayne (12:08.377)
at all. It was just me experimenting with something and trying something out. but, but it was just a lot of attempts at like, I wonder if I should try this or I should try this, try this. you know, I always spend an amount of time on something and then I become interested in something else. But then, but if you look at it, like every new business got bigger than the last one, usually in most cases. And if you look at the trajectory over time, it's just gotten bigger and bigger and bigger.

Paul Povolni (12:12.014)
Yeah.

Paul Povolni (12:24.652)
Yeah.

Eric Thayne (12:35.709)
And my first one that actually started to do something significant was when I was working as a filmmaker and I started a, yeah, what I would call a production company, but it was just me and my wife, you know, when she, she married into the business. Um, and we started that production company and then we started doing some stuff with that. And, and it was 2015 was the first year that I hit or no, it would have been 2016. It was the first year that I hit six figures in that production company.

Paul Povolni (12:44.536)
Yeah. Right.

Yeah, yeah.

Eric Thayne (13:05.565)
So I made over $100,000 that year just with my filmmaking, which is not insane, but for me it was at the time. And that's a huge milestone, especially for a lot of filmmakers to able to make that much in a year. Especially considering that I was doing all the work and I didn't have a lot of expenses. So was taking home a really good chunk of that too. That was really big for me. And then that was the same year that I started selling courses. And the funny thing is I...

Paul Povolni (13:14.86)
Right, right.

Paul Povolni (13:25.859)
Yeah.

Eric Thayne (13:33.509)
I made six figures that year in my production company as a filmmaker, but I also made six figures that year in my very first year as a course creator, right? And so I did double six figures and I continued doing the productions, but I don't think I ever hit six figures again because this new thing started to take over and I started doing a lot more of that. it was really appealing to me because it was something that was more scalable and didn't require me

Paul Povolni (13:42.817)
Wow, wow.

Eric Thayne (14:03.005)
me to be on set for like 18 hour days and killing myself, you know, and some of these things that we did overnight and whatever. And so I really liked that about it. And also, you know, I love filmmaking, I love lighting and cinematography. I'm a creative very much in that sense, but I'm also an entrepreneur, so I'm very cognizant of how am I spending my time and is this scalable? And so I yeah, it, it, that was the

Paul Povolni (14:07.054)
Right, right.

Paul Povolni (14:17.091)
Yeah.

Paul Povolni (14:24.312)
Right.

Eric Thayne (14:28.549)
So the production company, you know, hit six figures a year and then the courses hit six figures a year in the first year. And then it was like three years before we got to seven figures. And then from there, it just kept growing. it just keeps evolving.

Paul Povolni (14:39.244)
Wow.

Paul Povolni (14:45.814)
Yeah. So with some of the production projects, you mentioned some pretty big projects and for, you know, maybe there's a filmmaker that's listening to this and they're kind of where you are at. How did you get some of those bigger projects as a solo production?

Eric Thayne (15:00.893)
Yeah, it's actually funny. the my book actually starts with that story. And it's interesting because it's not the book isn't really geared towards filmmakers per se. It's geared towards entrepreneurs, anybody that wants to go create content and grow their business online. So could be a filmmaker. But it's not like it's not like a filmmaking book, but it starts out telling the story of how I grew my filmmaking business. Because I started out with, you know, for the

longest time, it was not that I mean, I did a lot of free work and a lot of cheap work. My first paid job as a filmmaker was probably $200, I think that I got paid to do a whole thing. And and that to me was amazing at the time. And so so it kind of grew over time as I became more confident and better at my work, became more confident charging higher prices, but I didn't know hardly anything about sales or about marketing or anything. I was just

Paul Povolni (15:40.568)
Wow.

Paul Povolni (15:44.387)
Yeah.

Eric Thayne (15:57.341)
is just go make as good a work as possible and then hopefully people called. And it wasn't until like that last year when things really took off. It was because I started to understand like a real strategy for growing. And what it all came down to was as a filmmaker, and I think this principle applies to anybody, is that what I started doing is I started really building a portfolio of what I call passion projects.

meaning rather than just waiting for clients to call and then when they would call going and doing a project and getting paid for it. And then the rest of the time just sitting around twiddling my thumbs, I actually would go spend that the rest of that time I went out creating my own projects and basically showcasing to people. This is the type of work that I want to do. And this is what weren't just like throw away projects. I do it really quick. This is where I put all of my energy into doing something amazing, something beautiful, something incredible.

Paul Povolni (16:27.708)
well.

Paul Povolni (16:48.589)
Yeah.

Paul Povolni (16:55.373)
Right?

Eric Thayne (16:57.681)
to build up a portfolio because.

Paul Povolni (16:57.9)
Yeah, you put in thousands of dollars worth of effort to get thousands of dollars worth of client type projects, right?

Eric Thayne (17:04.165)
Yeah, yeah, and sometimes even that much in money just just to fund these projects. And it's the work that most filmmakers aren't willing to do. And again, I think this applies to anybody, whether a filmmaker or any type of entrepreneur, like the beginning phase is usually like you've got to get your, your, your portfolio together, your track record, like do you have if you're trying to get clients like as a coach, have you worked with anybody before?

Paul Povolni (17:07.587)
Yeah.

Paul Povolni (17:23.67)
Right, right.

Eric Thayne (17:30.429)
Can you prove that you've gotten people results? Can you prove that you've helped people? Or if it's anything else, like people need that in order to be able to want to work with you. And so as a filmmaker, that's especially important is if most filmmakers, their entire portfolio is just work that they've done for past clients. So it's like, it's all past work. It's a museum of old artifacts, of stuff that doesn't really represent what they can do now.

And usually their past work is work that they've done. Number one, with a client who is breathing down their neck and making them make changes and most of time making them do things that they wouldn't do that end up making the project worse than it could be. That's just the reality, right? But then secondly, also, you know, the client is the ultimate like dictator in that position because they're the ones paying. So your, your job is to do what they want. And so a lot of filmmakers portfolios

Paul Povolni (18:13.174)
Right, right, yeah.

Paul Povolni (18:24.824)
Right.

Eric Thayne (18:27.165)
you know, I would work with them and I would ask them like, Okay, what's, what's the best work that you have in your portfolio? And they'd be like, Well, this one and then they'd give me a long list of disclaimers. But this happened. There was never any confidence in their work. And I was like, Oh, that's interesting that you don't have a piece of work that you can point to and confidently go, this is what I can do for you. And so a lot of my coaching for filmmakers revolved around helping them create that hero piece of content that was like,

Paul Povolni (18:38.35)
Right.

Eric Thayne (18:56.399)
a thing that they were ultimately just so proud of that was better than anything they'd ever done before. And I showed them like my tools and stuff for producing those things. And we got people to do them to where you had something in your portfolio that was just so good that you didn't have to sell anything. never, didn't have to know marketing or sales. All you had to do is show it to people and they would be knocking on your door, trying to buy from you. And I think that's a, that's an interesting principle, not just for filmmakers, but for

any entrepreneur is that is like, you have a product that is so good? Do you have a track record that is so good? Or do you have results that are so good that you could simply hand those to somebody and they will pay you any amount to work with you immediately.

Paul Povolni (19:40.684)
Man, that is so good. That is so good because yeah, it's so true. You know, as you were saying, what, what, what you started doing is creating the types of projects you wish you would get to attract those kinds of clients that would want that kind of a project, you know? And I think if you're a creative, and this is so relevant, and this is such a head smack for creatives, especially as you know, if you're creative and you don't have the projects, it means you have the time. and if you were able to do a large project for a client,

that budget was not an issue, then what would you do? And since you have the time, do it, right? And so that's what you were kind of doing with your video is like, if a client came to you and said, we have a $50,000 budget, well, you created a passion project that would be worth $50,000, but you had the time to create it,

Eric Thayne (20:17.158)
Yeah.

Eric Thayne (20:32.667)
Yeah, I mean, the first the first really big one that I did. Well, well, it depends on which one you define as that. But I but the first project that I talked about in the book was was a music video that I had a $600 budget. But I but I made sure that the video was like a like a $10,000 project, right? In turn, and everybody on the team that was working on it knew they were all working, we were all working for free. And everyone knew like, this is what we're trying to build. We're not getting paid for this. We only have this budget for a few little things here and there. But we're gonna make this look like a $10,000 project.

Paul Povolni (20:49.61)
Yeah, well.

Eric Thayne (21:01.949)
And that one actually turned into my first big project for a client. There was a luxury hotel and they said, want you to, we want to hire you. And I was like, this is amazing. I'm going to get my first big project. And they're like, we can pay you $3,000. And I was like, ah, which wasn't enough for what I wanted to do, but I had the choice there. I could choose to take that $3,000, not hire any crew, not get the nice gear, use the camera that I had at home or whatever.

Paul Povolni (21:02.371)
Yeah.

Eric Thayne (21:30.173)
And I could pocket that $3,000 and just continue to make the same old crap that I had been making for the longest time as a videographer. Or I could take that 3,000 and say, okay, you know what? We're going to spend all of this, which is what I ended up choosing to do. I said, I said, okay, I'm to take that 3,000, but I'm going to spend all of it to get actors and talent and crew and gear. And we're going to shoot on nice cameras and we're going to everything. Um, and I'm going to, I'm going to do a 20, $30,000 project for you for that much.

We did that and the client was so blown away by the end result that they came back to us and over the next like three years they ended up hiring us for about $75,000 worth of work. Just that one client. Yeah.

Paul Povolni (22:12.322)
Wow, wow, wow. Now did you tell them as a agency that what you created for them was not a $3,000 project? Did you? Okay, all right, yeah.

Eric Thayne (22:21.789)
Yeah, I was very, clear. Yes. And that's a big part of the process. You have to be clear about that if you are going to do that's kind of like pro bono work, basically, where you where a client comes to you, because because they came to me with a vision for this project that was like, very aligned with the type of work that I wanted to do. And that's rare that you get a client that's so in alignment with the type of work that you want to do, especially in the beginning phases as a filmmaker. So

Paul Povolni (22:31.245)
Yeah.

Paul Povolni (22:45.539)
Yeah.

Eric Thayne (22:48.955)
So yeah, I, I, they came to me with that vision. I was like, my gosh, this is exactly what I want to do. The type of work that I want to do that I need in my portfolio. said they only had three K to do it. So I told them, I made it very clear. Yes, I will do that. But note that I'm spending all of this money on crew and I'm not going to make anything on this and I'm going to do it for you for this much. And, it's really important that I told them that even, even when you do tell them that sometimes they forget by the end of the project. cause what's funny is the,

Paul Povolni (23:14.798)
You

Eric Thayne (23:18.181)
The guy that I was working with the communications manager at the hotel, he didn't, he was the one that I worked with. didn't, I didn't work with the, the VP level guy at all on the project. So I worked with this communications manager, got the whole project done. The VP guy came back at the end was like, this is amazing. I've been showing this to people. Everyone's raving about it. Like we're so excited. We're putting it on our website. They were just like so stoked about it. And then, and then during the time that I was doing the project,

In the middle of the project, the communications manager that I was working with ended up leaving the company actually. And so then when I delivered the final project, I delivered it to the VP. He was excited about it, loved it. He came back a couple months later and he said, Hey, we want to do another one of these videos. Can you give me a quote? And I gave him the real quote for like 20 K for project like that thinking that, you know, this had been communicated and that was not communicated to him. He was expecting another $3,000. And I was like, Oh, like

Paul Povolni (24:05.934)
Yeah.

Paul Povolni (24:11.822)
Eric Thayne (24:17.061)
John didn't tell you that. Because I told him explicitly. I was like, I will do this this time. But this is just once if you want to do more of these, we have we have to charge full price. And I told him that. And anyway, so the VP came back and he was like, he was really upset. And he was like, wait, why are you raising your prices and all this stuff. And I explained to him and I said, No, this is the reason why x y z this happened.

you know, this, I explained this to John, I don't think he communicated it to you. Here you go, here's what's going on. And then he didn't respond to me. And I didn't hear back from them for a year and a half. So, so I never, I just, I was like, shoot, like that was such a bummer that I lost this client that could have been such a good relationship because it wasn't communicated. And, it was a year and a half. And then

Paul Povolni (24:50.478)
wow.

Paul Povolni (24:55.565)
Wow.

Eric Thayne (25:12.861)
you know what happened is randomly out of the blue, I got an email back from the VP a year and a half later. He said, Hey, we got a project we want to work on. Like, can you come up for lunch? This is in Park City, Utah. Can you come up and can we have lunch together? And I was like, Okay. And I went up there. And they're all you know, it's really fancy restaurant where they like pull your chair out for you and then push you in and then like lay the napkin on your lap and

Paul Povolni (25:36.534)
Yeah, wow.

Eric Thayne (25:40.837)
And they're like whining and dining me and it was the VP and this new communications manager and they were both, you know, just talking like just so kind, like overly kind. you know, we love your work and we're so excited. We really want to work with you and all this stuff. And I was like, what is going on? I'm really confused. I thought that you were mad at me. And, and then they started, so they started asking us questions and then, we started talking about a project, like what was it, you know, what was it going to take to work together and.

Paul Povolni (25:52.394)
Eric Thayne (26:09.789)
Uh, it turns out that in the last year and a half, what had happened is they went and hired another videographer that was at the price that they thought that they were the same price, $3,000 to make a video. went and made a video for them and it was terrible and they hated it and they learned, Oh, that's why Eric charges 20 grand because they saw the difference. Now that wouldn't have happened if I never did the thing.

Paul Povolni (26:24.034)
Yeah.

wow.

Paul Povolni (26:33.122)
Yeah.

Eric Thayne (26:38.021)
If I'd never done the passion project, if I'd never done the 20k project on the 3k budget, if I had just taken that 3k budget and made a video, it would have ended up exactly like the other videographer, right? And so it just never would have worked out. And this is the thing that most beginner entrepreneurs or videographers or whatever you are, are dealing with is that you've got, it doesn't matter how much you charge or how much who's out there. There are people out there who are willing to do the same level of work or more for cheaper or for free. And you're always competing with that.

Paul Povolni (26:40.225)
Right.

Paul Povolni (27:05.066)
Right. Right.

Eric Thayne (27:07.581)
So how do you stand out? Well, you just have to be better. You have to not be in the sea of people that can do mediocre work. You have to be able to do the high end work. And if you can do the high end work, then your competition goes to almost zero because nobody else is willing to do it. And that's ultimately what happened is we started talking at that lunch and explaining they're like, so is how much is it going to be? And I said, you know, it's going to be 20 K to do one of these videos are around there. And, uh,

Paul Povolni (27:22.765)
Right.

Eric Thayne (27:34.925)
And they said, okay, you know, we'll have to check to see if we had the budget. I'm not really sure. And so we left the lunch and then they came back a couple of weeks later and then hired us for 20 K to do a project. And then we ended up doing like three more of those. So that was, that was what happens. And I think it kind of represents the power of like, number one, having a really good track record of your work and, really being careful of that, making sure that that's clear, that this is who I am and this is what I do. And I have standards for the work that I do.

Paul Povolni (27:44.738)
Nice. Wow.

Eric Thayne (28:04.229)
And there's no cutting corners here. then being willing to be confident and firm on that and charge high prices for your work, but then also knowing when those opportunities pop up to do something potentially for cheaper for an opportunity to go higher.

Paul Povolni (28:20.46)
Yeah. Wow, man. There's so much gold in just what you shared there, because I think, you know, for creatives, whether they're doing video, whether they're doing branding, whether they're doing logos and things like that is, you know, sometimes you put in way more effort than you paid and then you get upset because you're not valued because you haven't communicated that you did. you know, and when, what you could do sometimes is, know, if you're doing that, first of all, communicator, like you had mentioned, you had communicated to the person who ended up leaving.

Eric Thayne (28:39.121)
Thanks

Paul Povolni (28:49.368)
But also even in your invoice is put in what you charged and then put in what it's worth and like list on there that it was discounted or, or, or less than what it's actually worth. I've seen people do that as well. We're on the invoice. It has the actual price and then you have, you know, at a 75 % discount or whatever, but just so there's documentation or so there's a way for them to understand, know, this, I loved working with you guys. I wanted to help you out. I'm excited about this project.

Eric Thayne (29:02.438)
Yeah.

Eric Thayne (29:08.284)
Yeah.

Paul Povolni (29:18.432)
And I want to give it more time than what you're able to afford right now. And so I'm giving you a 50 % discount. so, you know, your budget is 3000 and I'm going to give you X amount of value and make sure that's clear. So, man, that was so good, Eric. Thank you for sharing that. so, so, and because there are creatives that listen to this and, understanding sometimes the, business side of creativity, the entrepreneurship side of creativity is not always a

Eric Thayne (29:34.236)
Yeah, you bet.

Paul Povolni (29:46.954)
an easy thing for creatives. Sometimes the business side of stuff is a little more challenging. so I think what you just shared there is a great way for somebody to go next level with what they're doing is do passion projects, do projects that look like the types of projects that you want to take on that you could proudly show off, not ones that you have to offer disclaimers and say, well, the client wanted me to change this and change that and change this color and...

Eric Thayne (30:08.626)
Mm-hmm.

Paul Povolni (30:13.602)
So it's not really that great and I'm not really proud of it, but here I wanna do more of this. So that was really good. So let's talk about your referenced creativity and entrepreneurship. Talk to me a little bit more about that of how you've been able to both coach and combine those two in what you're doing.

Eric Thayne (30:18.193)
Yeah, yeah.

Eric Thayne (30:33.373)
Yeah, well, when I talk about creativity, I think this is really important to understand because, you know, when I say that a lot of people think like, oh, filmmaking or art or drawing or music or anything like that. That is that's, that's like art. Okay. Creativity isn't necessarily art. And, you know, I think creativity is a lot more important than that is a lot bigger than that. And I think everybody has creativity built into them. Some people say I'm not a creative person.

Usually what they mean is like, I'm not, I'm not into like the arts, right? But you are a creative person because like we are literally all creators. Like we're designed to be creators, to create, to come up with ideas, to have, you know, visions for things and, and to build things. So I think that everybody has that within them. Some may be more, more honed in than others. But when I say creative,

Paul Povolni (31:05.057)
Yeah, yeah.

Eric Thayne (31:28.177)
you know, if you're an entrepreneur, that's like, I don't have a creative bone in my body, which you'll hear people say that in entrepreneurship in business, we call it innovation, right? So it's innovative, like what is innovation except creativity applied to business or engineering or technology or anything like that, right? So it is that is creativity. That's what we're talking about is the ability to

Paul Povolni (31:37.782)
Yeah.

Eric Thayne (31:53.937)
you know, come up with a business idea or come up with a unique way of solving people's problems or having your own framework or having a coming up with content ideas, coming up with a way of presenting your message, a marketing message. There's there's a lot of creativity and marketing. So that is that's creativity is like, if I can help entrepreneurs to be more creative, they'll be more successful, because it's it just it just comes down to that.

And when I mean that, what I mean by that, typically with most people I'm working with is it comes down to the economy because they want help creating content and like expressing their brand online better, presenting themselves better, growing a following, building their business online. That's a big part of it. But there are a few people I work with who are actually really good at the content creation part of it. And then they're just like, I need help monetizing this.

I need help making money from it. How do I turn it into sales? How do I run the sales calls? How do I build the funnels? How do I do the marketing? And so I work with lot of people on that as well. And so that ultimately is what it comes down to. And I think, I think most people are one or the other. They're either a creative or an entrepreneurial type. But I just, for some reason from a very young age was always both. I felt like I just kind of split the middle on that. And I had, I have a right brain and a left brain that are both very, very, very strong. And I think it's that unique.

ability or that unique DNA that gives me like a strategic advantage and being able to do this and being able to help people at outsized levels with this. And so that's kind of why I focus on it that way.

Paul Povolni (33:28.428)
Yeah, I love that. And yeah, I believe that, you know, we're all created in the image of God and God is a creator and therefore we are creative, right? We have that. And sometimes we nurture it, sometimes we don't. And some have the environment to nurture that. Others don't. Others have things that they like more and they don't nurture it as much as maybe somebody else does. So, so I love that. So let's talk about being a creator and that's, know, you've written a book on the topic. You've, so let's talk about what it means to be a creator. And then we can also talk about the monetizing side of that.

Eric Thayne (33:34.287)
Yeah, exactly.

Paul Povolni (33:58.062)
But in 2025, what does being a creator look like? And you could tie it back into your book that says create, don't capture, or if you want to kind of ramp us up to that, let's go there.

Eric Thayne (34:10.555)
Yeah. So when I say being a creator, don't just mean a content creator. So I know it's a term, like the term creator today has kind of been started to use synonymously with content creator, like people who are making a living by creating content, which is a very cool thing that's happening in our world, but that's not really what I mean. And I also don't mean an artist or like a musician or something like that. So somebody in the arts.

what I mean is, well, what I really mean at the deepest level is everyone, right? Because like you said, we're all creators. we can all create something. Now, not everybody is currently doing that. Not everybody wants to, not everybody cares to, and that's totally fine. But if you're an entrepreneur, you're an artist, a creative, somebody who has a message or wants to put something out into the world or wants to make something or build something or whatever it is.

Paul Povolni (34:45.398)
Yeah.

Eric Thayne (35:08.815)
you're a creator, and that's who I'm talking to. And that's who this book is talking to. Now, the book is definitely geared towards what I would say what I entrepreneurs, because it kind of approaches the topic from a perspective of how to grow your following in your audience online, with the purpose of building a business and making money. But if you're somebody who doesn't want to, doesn't care that much about making money from it or building a business, and you just want to like, create and build a following and build a community around you and what you do, it's

really effective for that too. So anybody who has something that they want to put out there and get out there. And the book has basically three phases, three parts, the creator, the content and the business. It starts with the creator, the you how to really understand what your personal brand is, what unique advantage you bring to the table, what it is, what is your craft? What is the thing that you're really good at or that you're passionate about that you want to share with the world? It's coming up with that it's figuring out how to structure that and really being like clear on that.

The second part is about the content. How do you create the content? Because content is your message. It's the it's the expression of your message of your creator brand out into the world. So what do you talk about? How do you come up with topics? How do you research ideas? How do you script your videos so that they'll perform well? How do you make them go viral? How do you like all those kind of things around content? And then lastly, of course, is the business which is then the business aspect of it when you build a following and now you have people watching your videos. How do you convert that attention into

leads and sales for a business? How do you come up with a product? How do you what do you sell? Who do you sell it to? How do you scale up? How do you even scale up your team? Like if you want to scale a team, you want to go that far. So there's there's a lot to this and it kind of goes through that entire process. But that's what I mean by a creator. Somebody who's like, I have something that I want to talk about that I want to share that I want to build a community of people who are like minded around. And so basically, here's how to go do that.

It's like go, it's a step by step guide. Like here's the process, go do this, create the content like this, build a business like this. And if you follow that process, then you'll have hopefully a successful business from it and something really meaningful that you've built that's built around you and your unique passions and skills and what it is that makes you different from anybody else out there.

Paul Povolni (37:25.676)
That's awesome. So what is the first step? If somebody says, okay, I want to be a creator. What is the first step? What do I need to kind of get aligned or set up or clarified to start doing that?

Eric Thayne (37:38.087)
We need to figure out what your brand is. And when I say what your brand is, most people get this wrong. I don't mean your fonts and your colors or your website or anything like that. I mean, who you are, right? Because everybody has a brand. You don't really, you don't build a brand. You are a brand. Your brand is who you are. It's the unique combination of your skills and passions and interests and values and beliefs and all those things that make up who you are that just make you

It's your unique DNA makes you completely unique from anybody else, a personality that you have. And most people are completely unaware of what that is for them. And they're if they're already in the online world, they're already an entrepreneur, they're out there playing a character. They're playing this person that they think they need to be in order to attract a certain target audience in order for it to work. And it's fine. You can build a business that way. I did. But you're probably headed for burnout long term.

Paul Povolni (38:15.052)
Yeah, yeah.

Eric Thayne (38:34.011)
doing something like that. Because as long as you're playing a character, you're playing an actor, right? And this is what how it talks about in the book. As long as you're an actor, you're acting like a content creator, you're acting like an entrepreneur, you're acting like a certain person, what's going to happen is at some point, you're going to, you're going to just end up pivoting away from it, or you're going to change something else, because it's not aligned with who you are. And so if you can create that alignment first, not to get like woo, woo about it, or like, you know, some people are like,

Paul Povolni (38:54.808)
Yeah.

Eric Thayne (39:01.745)
Like I don't want to do this. Just tell me how to make the content. But I really mean it. This is really important. Because if you don't get this right, then you're you're missing the foundation for what you're trying to build. And when you can get it right, let me tell you, the content is way more fun. The business grows way more way faster. You end up working with people that you actually like. There's so many advantages to this. And so that's the that's the first part is that's the foundation. We get really clear on like, what is it about you that makes you you that literally nobody else can compete with?

Paul Povolni (39:04.238)
Yeah.

Paul Povolni (39:12.11)
Right.

Paul Povolni (39:29.229)
Yeah.

Eric Thayne (39:31.761)
because nobody else will ever be as good at being you as you are at being you. And so as long as they're trying, they're going to be failing. And so if you can figure that out first, like that's a really good place to start.

Paul Povolni (39:43.118)
So what about for those that might think they are being the real them, but they are actually being the actor or the alter ego? How do you, do you help people to navigate that in some way? How would you start in helping them realize that's not really you, that's your alter ego, that's your acting at that point? Because for some people it's blurred, know, that they don't even know they're doing it.

Eric Thayne (40:08.753)
Yeah. For most people, the way that that shows up and the way that you're going to recognize it is in fear of getting on camera is in expressions like, I just don't like social media. in things like, you know, you're always procrastinating, creating content. It's not fun. It feels like a job or a chore to create content, to make, to put stuff out there. any of those types of things.

like are actually the first indicator that you're not being real. I know that probably seems counterintuitive, but I've worked with entrepreneurs and creators from, we're just starting from scratch to people who have a million followers and make a hundred million dollars a year. It's, it's the same thing. We, we deal with the same thing. And the reality is that those are some of the symptoms I would say of that misalignment.

Because when you're fully aligned, when you're fully in alignment with who you are and your opinions and how you want to talk about what you what you want to be talking about, what you want to be doing, like those kind of things, you don't you don't have any of those blocks. Or at least they're way, way, way, way, way, way lower. Because when you come into like full acceptance of who you are, this is who I am. This is how I am. This is how I talk. This is what I talk about. This is what I enjoy. This is what I'm passionate about. This is what I like to do.

Paul Povolni (41:07.948)
Yeah.

Paul Povolni (41:20.908)
Yeah, yeah.

Eric Thayne (41:37.353)
And your content now is just an extension of that. It's very natural. It makes it very easy. It makes it very effortless because you don't have to worry about like, what are people thinking? It's cause like, I'm not making my content for them. I'm making it for me and for anybody that wants to listen. Right. And so that's, that's a very different approach to it. And it's, and it's what makes it work. it's like, nobody, nobody hates sitting in the living room.

Paul Povolni (41:42.797)
Right.

Paul Povolni (41:54.082)
Right, right.

Eric Thayne (42:06.331)
with their best friend who has the same interests as them and just like chatting about it. Nobody hates that. Nobody has blocks around that. Nobody has struggles doing that. And I think when you're doing this right as a creator and you're really built from your internal personal brand from who you are, it's the same thing. That's what it is, is you're just making a video for me being on this podcast.

Paul Povolni (42:14.956)
Yeah. Right.

Eric Thayne (42:35.107)
is just I'm just sitting on the couch with Paul talking about the stuff that I love to talk about that I actually really enjoy. That's really fun for me. So like, there's no blocks here. There's no, there's no struggle here. Like this isn't hard. This is easy. And so I think that's the first sign for people if you're, if, if creating content is hard or if it's a struggle or if it's a challenge.

Paul Povolni (42:49.174)
Right.

Eric Thayne (42:58.557)
That might be your first indicator that there's that you're out of alignment. I'm not talking about technical skills like I don't know how to get the lighting right or whatever. There's learnable skills that need to come along with it, but I'm talking about the internal blocks that stop you from doing it. And you know, if you have that, know what I'm talking about.

Paul Povolni (43:03.852)
Right, right.

Right, right.

Yeah.

Paul Povolni (43:14.914)
Man, that's so good. yeah, having these conversations, that's why I love doing what I'm doing with this podcast is just having these conversations where it feels like you're chatting with somebody over coffee as opposed to grilling them or an interview or whatever. It's just a conversation. Tell me about your loves, your passions and all of that stuff. So what about the people that, you know, we hear the phrase imposter syndrome. Where does that play into this whole, you know, putting your face in front of a camera and creating content?

Eric Thayne (43:27.901)
huh, yeah.

Eric Thayne (43:42.971)
Well, so imposter syndrome is the, you know, what it's defined as is basically downplaying your own skill. And it comes from, because what you do is so intuitive for you, you might be like really good at something that because you're so good at it because you know it really well, you forget what it's like not to know it. And, and so then you don't think that it's all that special or that's all that helpful.

That to me like so if we get down to the real definition of imposter syndrome, that's what it is that to me is like the the fix for that is really a Just an understanding of the principle that like that makes sense That I'm really good at this thing. So therefore it's not hard for me but that doesn't mean that it's not valuable to somebody else who's not good at it and and so, you know, I think you know a lot of coaches will struggle with that or like

you know, I'm not good enough, or I can't teach somebody this or whatever. I'm like, no, literally, if you were working with somebody who's never done it before, they would love to have you to help them to do it. Right. And so and so when you when you really see that, and you start to realize that, and you believe it, and you trust that, that's what's happening, then imposter syndrome goes away. Right? Because it's like, okay, I'm as good as I am.

Paul Povolni (44:46.478)
Right, right, right.

Eric Thayne (45:04.229)
at this thing and I have a lot of years of experience of this thing and there are other people who don't have a lot of years of experience and so I can be valuable to them. So then, so then that's gone. The bigger thing that gets in the way for people and probably what you're more referring to when you say imposter syndrome, when most people say imposter syndrome is like, I'm just scared of what people are going to think of me. And that's a completely different thing.

Paul Povolni (45:12.546)
Yeah.

Paul Povolni (45:26.604)
Yeah, yeah.

Eric Thayne (45:26.821)
that, that fear that kind of eats at you when you get on camera, and you're about to shoot a video and you freeze up and you get all stiff and you can't think about what to say and your brain fogs up. And the words just don't come out right and you're stuttering over your words. Like, those things happen because of a fear of like what people are going to think which is very, very common, I will say, from people who are just starting out people who are very established, very, very common. And

Paul Povolni (45:50.35)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Eric Thayne (45:56.377)
And so, you know, I get asked this question a lot. How do get over that? And it's not like a quick overnight fix. So just know that upfront. But the reality is we have helped a lot of people with it. I a client who was literally in therapy for it and went through our programs and then came out of it like just creating content and making it happen. But the reality is that, you know, and again, not to be too woo about this, but I really do think that this is the answer is it really comes down to just coming into

self-acceptance. Right? Self-acceptance is saying, I am who I am. I am the way that I am. I'm as good as I am in this moment. I am never going to be better at this than I am right now. Right now. I will become better at it later. But at this moment, I'm only as good as I am at it. And that is not going to change. Nothing I can do will change that.

Paul Povolni (46:42.388)
Hahaha.

Eric Thayne (46:52.271)
And so therefore I'm going to show up as I am right now and I'm going to love myself enough to do that. Haters and all people there, people are not going to like it. It's not going to be good enough for some people. And that's totally fine because I can't change that. That's who I am. But I'm also committed to continuing to improve myself and to work better and to get better and better at this, whatever this is and becoming better at it. And I will become better over time.

But right now in this moment, when I'm recording this video, I am as good as I am. I'm in a certain mindset. I'm in a certain state. I'm in a certain mood. There's certain things going on in my life. All of those things are going to affect how this performance comes out. They're all going to affect how the words come out, if it's clear or not, how it sounds, how it reaches people, who it reaches, all those kinds of things that are going to happen. But I don't have control over that right now. All I can do is show up and be my best and then be happy at myself for

I prefer doing my best. And that's really like the mindset that I have to get in for everything that I do because ultimately that's all that matters. I get on these podcasts like quite often and, or quite often, but like occasionally I'm on podcasts like this and having conversations with guys like you and you know, I feel like the content is kind of flowing right now, like really well. I feel very at ease on this podcast and

Paul Povolni (47:51.65)
Yeah.

Eric Thayne (48:18.137)
and flowing and acceptance. But there's other ones that I'll get on where I didn't have a good night's sleep the night before. Or I didn't, for whatever reason, I'm not feeling well or been sick or something like that, where it's just kind of like, it feels like a struggle to get the words out or it stutters or whatever. And, but like, I feel just as good as about those podcasts as I do about this one. Because I because I feel like I've achieved at least some level of that self acceptance, where it's like,

whatever comes out is the best that I was able to give at the time. And that's just going to have to be good enough because there's nothing I can do about it. And that really, ultimately, I think is the key to making it happen.

Paul Povolni (48:48.567)
Yeah, yeah.

Paul Povolni (49:00.227)
Man, I love that. I think for somebody that that was a life, life changing head smack forum right there. so much value in that, in, what you shared there, because yeah, I believe too, that, you know, what's easy for you is genius to somebody else. And sometimes we don't realize that we forget that, you know, what's easy for us is genius to somebody else. And so we do get stuck in our own heads. and you know, when I was thinking about, you know, the imposter syndrome, was thinking of

You know, maybe that person that is like, I know I'm really good at this, whatever it is, but if I put myself out there as that good, will people not like me or, know, I, because my inner person says I really shouldn't, I shouldn't be putting myself out there as that expert in that area because I don't have that self confidence. so, so, you know, maybe my terms were incorrect, but that's kind of what I was thinking with, with what you were sharing is, you know,

There are some people that are really, really good at what they do, but they don't want to front. They don't want to, they don't want to feel like they're out there promoting themselves in this place because they're in a person who's got some struggles. And so, so what do you say to that person?

Eric Thayne (50:11.603)
it's the same thing. It's, it's a fear of what people think, right? You're, you're fear of people seeing you as, what are the words for it? Self-centered, having an ego, right? Is that, that's what I'm getting at it, right? Yeah. Cause you're not, you're not really, yeah. You're not scared of showing off. You're not scared of having an ego. You're not scared of,

Paul Povolni (50:28.822)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm showing off, you know.

Eric Thayne (50:41.673)
thinking that you're amazing. You're scared of other people thinking that you think you're amazing or that you're all focused on yourself or yourself centered, right? What's, what's wrong with being self centered? What's wrong with being, aren't we all centered in ourselves? What's wrong with being full of yourselves? Like what else would you be full of? You are yourself. What's wrong with having an ego? By the way, we all have egos. What is wrong with loving what you do?

And being passionate about it to the point where you just you want to scream it to the world and you want to share it with people There's nothing there's literally nothing wrong with that now tearing other people down To elevate yourself. That's a different thing, but that doesn't stem from being full of yourself That stems from be that stems from hating yourself right most of what people think is

Paul Povolni (51:32.205)
Yeah.

Eric Thayne (51:40.145)
being conceited or having an ego or a big head and everything is not self love. It doesn't stem from self love. It stems from some self hate. When people hate on you in the comments, when they attack you, when they, whatever it is, that is always, always an indicator of self hate. put, I posted something on Instagram recently. I was like, your haters hate themselves and not you. that's the reality is that

Paul Povolni (52:03.47)
Wow, yeah, yeah.

Eric Thayne (52:06.673)
is that that's where it stems from nobody who's in a in a peaceful, calm, self centered, loving state in life goes out and attacks other people. There's no need to the only time you ever feel a need to do that to bring somebody else down is because you're so low that you're desperately trying to elevate yourself. And so if if that's the goal is like, I don't want people to see me as like being

you know, out there and being and whatever like having this thing, you're just, it's, it's the same thing. It's a fear of what people are going to think of you and you're trusting other people's opinions of you more than you trust your opinion of you. And when you come into full self-acceptance that I am who I am and, and I am the way that I am and it's not going to change right now, then that's, that becomes the truth. All right. That's the fact.

Paul Povolni (53:01.9)
Yeah. Yeah.

Eric Thayne (53:04.167)
People are going to think a million different things about you. You have zero control over what they think about you. The only thing that you can think of, you can worry about is what you think of you. And as long as you think of you highly, then that's a good thing. And, you know, I said once, the only way to stop worrying about what other people think of you is to think so highly of yourself that it doesn't matter. And I really believe in that. think the key in society, we downplay this idea of thinking highly of yourself.

Paul Povolni (53:25.39)
Yeah.

Eric Thayne (53:34.381)
The reality is that what we call thinking highly of yourself is actually a result of people thinking lowly of themselves. Right? If you really truly think highly of yourself, meaning self love, meaning like, I love who I am. the result of that.

almost always, not always, I guess I would say, is you become a more loving person who cares more about other people, who's more calm, who's more friendly, who's just a better person who wants to help other people. Like that is the result of internal peace and love. So anyway, I know this gets like kind of deep and stuff. I don't want to go too deep on it. But but that that really is what it comes down to.

Paul Povolni (54:13.612)
That's so good. man.

Yeah, I wanted to go that deep because, you said the first step is understanding who you are. And if, and if people don't get beyond understanding who they are, if they don't fully understand who they are and accepting who they are, they can't go onto the next steps, right? They can't. And, you know, I mean, you know, we're told to love others as we love ourselves. And if we don't love ourselves, we're not going to love others, you know? And so like you shared those people in the comments, probably don't love themselves. Therefore they're not loving others and they're not being kind to others.

And so, you know, I'm glad we went there and went that deep because that is the first step and content creation is such a thing that it's worth getting past that first hurdle that a lot of people stop on. And so once that first step is done, what's the next step that you advise people to become creators?

Eric Thayne (55:07.867)
Well, then it's going out and putting your message out there. Because for a lot of people, it's getting over those blocks to be able to do it. And really, I would say that these are not so much step one and step two, as much as they are kind of like happening in tandem. Because a lot of the way that you get over step one is by doing step two. The more you show up and you start creating content, you start, whether it's writing tweets or creating videos or writing on a blog or making Facebook posts or

Paul Povolni (55:14.434)
Yeah.

Paul Povolni (55:29.293)
Bye.

Eric Thayne (55:36.911)
whatever it is on social media or standing in the street and handing out flyers, I don't know. You can, the more you put your message out there, whether it's a marketing message or a mission or a charity or what, just something that you're passionate about, the more you start talking about it, the more you will start to see that, by doing this, I can connect with people who also care about it. And you'll, you'll build up more confidence in yourself to be able to do it. And so it's not a matter of like,

People wait until they're ready to get started. And that's the problem. The reality is you have to start when you're not ready. And by doing it, by starting, by doing it, by being consistent at it, you will make yourself ready. And it will become easier and easier.

Paul Povolni (56:22.648)
Wow, that's so good. That's why I got the sticker that says clarity through action. Yeah. Sometimes it's just, it's taken action that gives you the clarity. And sometimes we wait, you know, for perfection and for everything to be, you know, aligned the way we feel it needs to be. And then we get stuck in this, this loop of inactivity. so, you know, we're coming up to an hour here and man, this has gone so quickly and, I've got a million more questions and I'm sure you've got a million more insights.

Eric Thayne (56:26.811)
Yes, there you go.

Eric Thayne (56:40.539)
Yeah.

Paul Povolni (56:49.294)
So tell me about the title of your book. Where did that title come from? Is it a response to what other people are telling folks when it comes to content creation or is there some other meaning to it?

Eric Thayne (57:01.511)
So Create, Don't Capture comes from, again, my filmmaking days. And when I was a filmmaker, when I started doing those passion projects, they were born from this concept of creating and not just capturing. So to me, building a portfolio of work that was just like, here's all my past work, and I'm a videographer, and I just show up and hit record on a camera, that to me was capturing. But I was like, if I want to be really taken seriously as a filmmaker and I want to be a cinematographer, I need to create.

And that's actually where it came from. I started teaching filmmakers this principle is like, if you want to be taken seriously as a filmmaker, they said a videographer simply captures the world as it is. A cinematographer creates a world. And that's the difference between them is really when you start to become intentional about the work that you're putting into the world, when you start to become intentional about what message you're putting out there, what you're talking about, you're creating.

that's really creating rather than what most people are doing. The actors I've talked about are going through the motions of creating content because they went to a conference and somebody was like, Hey, you need to create content every day. And they're like, okay, so I'm going to go do it. And then they're just making content every day, with no intention of like trying to build something meaningful. It's just like, this is the latest strategy for growing my business. Right. Those are two totally different approaches. And for content creation or being a creator online business, as a creator in today's economy to work.

It has to come from that position of creating, not just capturing. And ultimately, that's what it comes down to. That's what the book's about. So that's why it's called Create, Don't Capture. It's that overarching principle that kind of goes throughout it because the book teaches step by step how to become a creator and how to grow your business online as a creator. But then it also goes a lot deeper than that in terms of like

what it means to be a creator and how to do this correctly. And I really think that that create, don't capture piece is the key that most people are missing that's stopping them from being able to find real growth with social media, with content, with putting themselves out there is that they haven't really latched onto that identity of creating, of being a creator. And once you find that identity and you really latch onto that, that's when everything flips for people and it becomes smooth sailing and they start growing really fast.

Paul Povolni (59:22.188)
That's awesome, and how did they get a hold of your book?

Eric Thayne (59:24.985)
You can go to create don't capture.com. And right now, I don't know when this podcast is going to go live, but we have a special limited edition version of the book that is out. This is very limited run. We only printed a certain number of them. Once those are gone, then they're all gone. But when you go to create don't capture.com, it'll either show you limited edition or you show you the regular one. So depending on when this comes out, they might be gone. But if you do see the limited edition one, definitely grab one because

That means that there's some left, but they're really beautiful. did them like it's a totally different cover design with a nice dust jacket and stuff. And it's got a certificate in it and everything. It's like they're really cool. Again, from the perspective of create, don't capture, we want to do something special with the launch. So that's why those are out first. Again, once those are gone, then they'll be gone. And then we'll move into, then the book will become available.

Paul Povolni (01:00:13.08)
Yeah.

Eric Thayne (01:00:21.553)
the normal book and it'll be on Amazon and Barnes and Noble and all that stuff as well.

Paul Povolni (01:00:25.474)
That's awesome. Well, be sure to check out that link and I'll have the link in the notes as well. Before we wrap up here, just one final question. What's a question or a head smack that you wish I had asked you about?

Eric Thayne (01:00:37.341)
I hate this question, honestly. If I was coming prepared with the questions, I wouldn't know. What's a question that I wish that you asked me about?

Paul Povolni (01:00:39.604)
Hahaha

Paul Povolni (01:00:49.044)
Right, something that you really want to share, whether it's to do with the topic of your book, whether it's to do with just going next level with content creation. What's something that we maybe have not even discussed yet that you could quickly share?

Eric Thayne (01:01:03.717)
Yeah. Yeah. you know, I think, I think to go back to maybe just like a recap of this entire conversation and what it's all about is, something that's really important to me and that I think should be more important to more people because of what it will do for you is really just pulling everything in your life, whether it's your life, your content, your business, everything, into alignment. And when I say that, and this goes back to what we talking about self-trust and that kind of thing. When I say that,

What I mean is that you're doing things the way that you want to do it and it makes sense for you because there's a lot of people out there right now. A lot of you that are listening probably listen to a lot of content online. You consume it, you can't get away from it. Like it's out there. There's a lot of advice. There's a lot of opinions and a lot of people will have an opinion on what you should do or how you should do things.

And you might listen to something that somebody says and go, that doesn't really sound right. But you know, they, but, but they're, you know, they're wealthier than me. They have more money than me. They have more XYZ, more followers or whatever it is. So therefore I'm going to do it. And, I fell into that, I fell into that trap for a long time of just doing like whatever it took or whatever anybody else was saying worked at any given time in order to achieve a result.

and just completely burning myself out doing that because they were things that just didn't work with either my belief system or my values or, honestly, just like the amount of energy that I have and how my body works. Okay. Some strategies that are just like really intense. Like I had a, I had a coach once that wanted to do like a, a four hour masterclass every day. And, and he's like super high energy, like the type of person that could do it. And I was like,

Paul Povolni (01:02:45.357)
Yeah, yeah.

Paul Povolni (01:02:55.406)
Hahaha

Eric Thayne (01:03:00.637)
think this is beginning of when I started noticing like, there are strategies that are just not built for me. You know, like I just I can't do that. I don't I don't have that kind of capacity. So I, when I started realizing that I started really making that switch to not just doing like whatever anybody else is doing that's supposedly working, but really figuring out how do I operate? How do I like to operate? What are what are my unique skills? Like, what are the ways that I'm able to work on something that other people can't?

Paul Povolni (01:03:05.56)
Yeah

Eric Thayne (01:03:30.525)
What's my equivalent of that, you know, four hour master class every single day? What can I do for four hours a day and not get burnt out on it? That's your secret sauce. That's your thing. That's what's gonna make you successful. When you lean into that and you do it that way and you do that thing. And it takes time to figure that out and there's a lot of testing that goes along with it. But that's been one of the biggest...

I gotta say one of the biggest shifts I've made in my life and probably the most effective is, that, you know, if I look at my life right now, it's more successful than ever, but it's also more aligned than ever. There's just less friction there and there's less struggle. And I think that the two are not just correlated, but causated in that, if that's even the word in that it's the alignment that has produced the success because

It's fluid. I'm in flow. I'm, I'm on this trajectory and there's, there's no stopping me because there's nothing in the way. And so that's what I would say. I would say, don't listen to everybody's advice out there. That's not all for you. There are people out there that are extremely different than you who are giving advice and presenting it in such a way that it makes it sound like it's the way or how it needs to be done for you to be successful. It's not.

Paul Povolni (01:04:30.722)
Yeah. Yeah.

Eric Thayne (01:04:57.425)
There are many paths towards success. In any area of life, are, you know, whatever type of success you're talking about, it's all about finding this path that works for you and just following it consistently and religiously and never giving up.

Paul Povolni (01:05:12.728)
Man, that was a fantastic answer to a question you didn't like. That was so good. Well, man, I'm going to encourage everybody to check out the book. I'm going to definitely get a copy for myself as well. We need to do this again. I do want to talk about viral videos. You recently posted about the strategy behind viral videos and not always fluke. Some are, they just go viral and it's hard to...

Eric Thayne (01:05:16.214)
Yeah, something usually comes out, you know.

Eric Thayne (01:05:36.21)
Yeah.

Paul Povolni (01:05:40.28)
define exactly how they do it. And sometimes you can be very strategic. And so you have some thoughts on that. And so I want to talk about stuff like that as well. But man, thank you so much for being on.

Eric Thayne (01:05:50.267)
You bet. Thanks for having me. It's been a pleasure chatting with you and thanks for letting me talk your ear off about this stuff.

Paul Povolni (01:05:55.801)
This has been awesome, and take care.

Eric Thayne (01:05:57.745)
Alright.