Zach Babcock / Founder of Alpha Underdog

Zach Babcock’s life story is nothing short of remarkable. Growing up in a chaotic environment filled with juvenile detention, rehabs, and a five-year prison sentence, Zach defied the odds.

He transformed into a devoted husband, father, and successful entrepreneur.

Join Paul Povolni as Zach shares his journey from the darkness of trauma to the light of purpose, uncovering the power of faith, self-discipline, and healing.

This is a conversation about redemption, resilience, and the Alpha Underdog mindset.

Key Takeaways:

1. How discipline can foster peace.
2. Healing trauma through therapy and Jiu-Jitsu.
3. The importance of faith in personal transformation.
4. Overcoming hustle culture for deeper fulfillment.
5. Embracing the Alpha Underdog mindset.

Link: ZachBabcock.com

Paul Povolni, the founder of Voppa Creative, has been a creative leader for over 30 years, with clients around the world. He’s led teams in creating award-winning branding and design as well as equipping his clients to lead with Clarity, Creativity and Culture.

Headsmack Website

Transcript

Paul Povolni (12:30.232)

Hey, welcome to the Headsmack podcast. My name is Paul Povolni and I am excited to have another conversation with a misfit. I have Zach Babcock with me and he is a man with a great story. He is an underdog and an alpha underdog. And he started off growing up in juvies, rehabs.

psych wards and so on and doing over five years in prison to completely transforming his life becoming a man of God devoted husband father friend and successful entrepreneur ladies and gentlemen Mr. Zach Babcock how you doing man

ZachBabcock.com (13:11.795)
Paul, man, hey, thank you for having me, man. I'm excited to be here.

Paul Povolni (13:17.27)
Yeah, I'm looking forward to this conversation and that's quite a, quite a bio and quite a, quite a story there. And so I'm, looking forward to hearing a part of it, part of what I do with my podcast is I love hearing people's origin stories. And so you can start as far back as you want. I love to hear about the, the origins of Mr. Zach Babcock. So start wherever you want.

ZachBabcock.com (13:42.259)
Absolutely, for sure. I'll give you a Cliff Notes version, man, and we can always unpack more. I'm an open book. I grew up in Ferguson, Missouri. My dad died. My parents had gotten a divorce. You know, I learned a lot of stuff, you know, the last few years kind of going back and studying, but it was crazy how they even got together in first place. But long story short, they split up because my dad was seeing other women. My mom ended up cheating on my dad after that. like,

Paul Povolni (13:49.355)
Yeah.

ZachBabcock.com (14:12.243)
crazy way, you know, for myself to get right out the gate. You know, I'm a young kid or whatnot. Dad and mom split. He moves out and then dies shortly after. And like everything, I'm seven years old and everything after that was like traumatic experience, traumatic experience, traumatic experience. What you call it, I went to school. Like I was always getting in trouble in school. I could never focus.

could focus, but I didn't focus on shit that didn't interest me. You know what I'm saying? And school just wasn't one of them. And I was smoking weed all the time to like cope with losing my dad. I didn't cope with that the right way. You know, I guess I wasn't shown shown the right way how to deal with it. But I had stuffed everything. I didn't even cry when he died. Literally just I remember sitting in that hospital. And my sister mom were crying in the the in the in the room. But I wasn't it was like I was like splitting myself off, you know, psychologically.

Paul Povolni (14:41.586)
Right, right.

Paul Povolni (14:56.067)
Wow.

ZachBabcock.com (15:05.041)
you know, there's a lot of stuff on that or whatnot because, because my ego didn't know how to handle that at that time, you know, seven years old. And so it was like stuffing it. And so I got stuff for decades, man. And I grew up hating my dad just because of the example. I wasn't smoking weed at seven. I started smoking weed at nine couple years after my dad died. But yeah, yeah. But still at nine years old, how's a how's a nine year old start smoking weed, right?

Paul Povolni (15:12.854)
Yeah, yeah.

Paul Povolni (15:19.544)
So how does a seven year old get weed?

Paul Povolni (15:26.771)
Okay, okay. Yeah, yeah

ZachBabcock.com (15:32.349)
Growing up in Ferguson, Missouri, it's just not a great place. Grow up, I was hanging out with my sister. She's three and a half years older than me and she was hanging out with people older than her. So I'm like, you know, nine years old, hanging out with 16 and 18 year olds a lot of time. What do you call it? Yeah, man. So I remember before I ever went into a family court system, because I wasn't going to school and I was smoking weed. My mom was, you know, trying to do

Paul Povolni (15:32.941)
Right.

Paul Povolni (15:36.567)
Yeah.

ZachBabcock.com (16:00.285)
trying to help me trying to do what she could do to help. She was acting out of her own best intentions to get me that help. Even though you know what she did didn't actually help it actually ended up traumatizing me more in a way. She had put me into a rehab before I even got into the court system. I went to the rehab, nine years old, I got into a fight, you know, was the youngest kid in there. I got my got beat up, of course, because you know, I started the fight with a bigger kid or whatever. And they

they suggested that they put me in a psych ward. and you know what I'm saying? Like, all I was was a kid that looking for intention looking for. Yeah, all I was was a kid looking for attention and love, you know, I'm saying looking for it in the wrong places, but just didn't know how to cope with shit or whatnot. So they suggested that they put me in a psych ward and she agreed to it, man. And dude, Paul, in this psych ward, I literally thought I was gonna die 24 seven in there. I was in there for five days and it felt like eternity. I felt like I was gonna die in there. Like,

Paul Povolni (16:37.974)
Wow, so that was just because you...

ZachBabcock.com (16:58.811)
Everything you probably ever read about a psych ward is true. It's probably even worse. The staff physically and mentally abuse you and verbally abuse you. Dude, I got woken up all hours throughout the night with them taking my blood and then shooting me up with all types of drugs. And I was lethargic in and out of consciousness. Kids are like screaming or laughing in the corner and just like fighting each other. Like it's just pure

pure chaos and it was just, yeah, straight fight or flight response. Yeah, I was in there by myself, you know, being abused and whatnot. So that, you know, I took a little, took a little toll and you know, that's, that's a very traumatic experience or whatnot. I'm growing up thinking this shit's normal that everybody goes through this shit, you know, I thought it was normal my own entire life. And so I really started studying trauma and started working on myself or whatnot. But yeah.

Paul Povolni (17:33.004)
And were you by yourself? Was it like a

Paul Povolni (17:49.667)
Right.

ZachBabcock.com (17:56.243)
So it was a crazy childhood in and out of juvenile detention centers, boys homes, rehabs, you name it. And then I graduated and did over five years of my life in prison as an adult. And I got out, you know, and I always had good intentions, but I just, you know, I just made poor decisions and didn't know any better.

And at the same time, I knew better. Let me take that. I want to backtrack on that. Okay, so I knew better. I know what's right and wrong. You know what I'm saying? I just had a lot of trauma shit going on with me and made poor decisions. Because you know, can't control what happens to you as a kid. You know, but as an adult, it is your responsibility to go back and to heal yourself and your responsibility to take care of yourself and to get yourself right. So I decided to backtrack that.

Paul Povolni (18:26.976)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

ZachBabcock.com (18:49.774)
but yeah, man,

Paul Povolni (18:51.34)
Yeah. And was there any light at all during that time? Was there any, any hope given to you?

ZachBabcock.com (18:55.955)
Yeah, you know, like my mom, even though she put me in that place, like she did it out of love. She was trying to help me and she always was there for me and, you know, and told me she, she loved me all the time and I genuinely felt loved by her, you know, and, you know, she could have done things a lot differently, you know, looking back, you know, you know, she was real, gullible in a sense, man. Like she moved us to Ferguson, Missouri after her and my mom, dad broke up. And that's like not a great neighborhood.

Paul Povolni (19:17.026)
Right. Right.

ZachBabcock.com (19:25.755)
And we didn't have to move there. Like we weren't like poor, you know, we weren't rich, but we weren't poor and we didn't have to live in Ferguson, Missouri. You know, so was, but she, you know, that was her decision, you know, and, and, and, you know, she, she did that maybe it was her life and that's where she wanted to move her family and her kids or whatnot, but moved into a really bad neighborhood. And then, and then, you know, putting me in the institutions and stuff. don't that I felt, cause she was trying to do that, you know, out of intentional love for me and trying to get me help, but I felt abandoned.

Paul Povolni (19:30.894)
Yeah.

Paul Povolni (19:45.121)
Right, right, yeah.

ZachBabcock.com (19:55.379)
I felt abandoned by my own mom and I felt like I wasn't good enough to be my mom's son. You know, that's what the message was communicated to me. And I was thrown to the wolves in the psych ward. You know what I'm saying? Defend for myself. That's how I felt. And it is what it is. And I've done a lot of healing since then, But yeah, long story short, did over five years of my life in prison. I went back to prison 20 days before my twin sons were born. That's when I changed everything. I said, I'm heading in another direction. Got out.

Paul Povolni (19:57.441)
right.

Paul Povolni (20:01.859)
Yeah.

Paul Povolni (20:09.751)
Yeah.

Yeah.

ZachBabcock.com (20:25.191)
turned my whole life around, built a successful business, was doing over $500,000 a year gross in a podcast agency with margins north of 40%. Yet I was miserable inside, man. I was winning all this time and I would be on top of the world for all but 20 seconds and I'd be like, what's next? What's next? And none of this was never good enough. And I knew...

when I had got to that point where I'd moved my family out of my old neighborhood into Wentzville Missouri, which is a nice neighborhood compared to Ferguson, Missouri. And what do you call it? When I had gotten there and when I had hosted my first mastermind with 10 entrepreneurs from all over the US and we're just killing it, business and all that stuff. And I was still like, what's next? And I wasn't satisfied. wasn't, I didn't feel like I was good enough and all these things. I knew something wasn't right, man. And that's, was in 2021.

33 years old and that's when I started to go deep and work on myself. I'm 36 now, but I really started doing that inner work, man, and going to face those demons.

Paul Povolni (21:24.694)
Yeah, so you said you were about to go to prison or you're in danger of going to prison when your twins were born or you went there? I missed that. Okay.

ZachBabcock.com (21:31.549)
I went back to prison. Yeah, so I had already did over five years of my life in prison, did four years straight. And I had been in and out a couple of times before I did that four year stretch. But I got out for almost two years and was doing good for the most part, but I was drinking every day. But I was like not breaking the law and doing stuff. I was basically self-medicating with alcohol. And that was my vice and whatnot.

I had went back though 20 days before my twin sons were born for an eight month setback. that's, know, when I woke up in prison, that's when I was like, I'm done, man. I'm done with this, this life for sure.

Paul Povolni (22:11.958)
Yeah. Yeah. Now, was it, was it just kind of a moment of, know, they're laying in your cell? where just that, that head smack moment of, know, I've got to, I've got to change. Like I've got twin, twin kids. I've got to, I've got to get my life together. Like what, what was the.

the catalyst for that moment aside from the twins. Or was the twins the biggest catalyst? Like you were laying there and you're like, reality check, like what am I doing?

ZachBabcock.com (22:35.186)
Yeah.

ZachBabcock.com (22:41.799)
Yeah, man, I've had some quite a few head smack moments in my life and that was definitely one of them. And for sure, because I had went out that night and got belligerent drunk. Just at this point in time in my life, I'll give you little bit more of the story. But I had gotten out of prison after doing, you know, I just finished a four over four year stretch flat and I went away, you know, at 19 years old, came home at 23.

Paul Povolni (22:47.15)
Yeah.

ZachBabcock.com (23:08.595)
And it was 2008 when I went away, 2012 when I came back. So they didn't have self smartphones. Like we had flip phones when I went away and like we had baggy clothes was in style when I went away. And then I came home and it was a complete culture shock and everybody's wearing pants, clothes that fit again. And we got these devices that I didn't even know how to make a phone call on that are supposed to be phones.

Paul Povolni (23:20.408)
Yeah.

Paul Povolni (23:24.334)
Hahaha

Paul Povolni (23:29.794)
Wow.

ZachBabcock.com (23:30.355)
I remember getting out and I was doing good and I got a job at a bar back as you know, bar and grill, staying out of trouble and whatnot. And that's what my mindset was then. It was like, hey, I just got to do stuff to stay out of trouble and work a job or whatever. And I was doing good, but then I got hired at this clothing store at the buckle and I got hired there because I shopped there all the time. And then I got promoted because I sold 3000 one day and the whole store did 9,000 that entire day. And I was only there for six hours. So they promoted me, bam.

I was thinking like, yes, I'm moving forward. I'm advancing my career and put my whole life behind me. Yada yada. Awesome. And then a couple of days after that, bam, hey, Mr. Babcock, we looked in and seen your convicted felon and yeah, we got to let you go. And so like all that hope was like diminished. And I chose in that moment to let that defeat me in that moment. And I chose to start drinking heavily, man. And I started binge drinking and I went out that night to that bar, got belligerent drunk and ended up

Paul Povolni (24:06.188)
Yeah.

Paul Povolni (24:20.718)
Mmm.

ZachBabcock.com (24:27.603)
trying to start a fight with one of my one of my friends there when I got got, you know, the police get the police called on me and they came and locked me up and I had a worn out of parole violation for a DWI that I had. So yeah, they sent me back to prison for eight months setback. And I woke up in that in that jail. So the next day from that blackout lights shining and it's bright got a headache backs hurting because you're sleeping on a metal bunk and just feeling like you got hit in the face with a shovel and then I realized

Paul Povolni (24:41.57)
Hmm.

Paul Povolni (24:55.406)
Right.

ZachBabcock.com (24:57.395)
that I'm going to get in that I'm in jail and I call Stephanie asking her to come bail me out and then she tells me, hey, they're not letting me bail you out. You got a warrant. You're going back to prison. And that's when it was like that moment right there was like getting stabbed in the stomach. You know what I'm saying? Like I'm going to miss my kids being born. You know what I'm saying? Like, yeah, that was a head smack moment. That's right. There was dude. I didn't know.

Paul Povolni (25:10.38)
Wow. Wow.

Paul Povolni (25:14.762)
Yeah. Wow. So, so what did you start doing in prison?

ZachBabcock.com (25:25.309)
how I was gonna turn my life around. The only thing I knew was that I was gonna have to change my people, places, and things. I didn't know anything else. And I just started from right there, man. And it just stuck to myself. know, like I had friends and stuff in prison. I still, when I went back, you know, I still like talked to the people and went out in the yard and worked out and did my normal stuff, but I didn't go out and do all, like, it was focused. Like, hey man, I'm doing my time and I'm getting back home to my family.

Paul Povolni (25:53.378)
Yeah. Did you, did you seek inspiration? Like you mentioned that after prison, you, you became an entrepreneur. Did some of that, learning or that mindset shift happen while you're in prison or did that all happen afterwards?

ZachBabcock.com (26:09.809)
Man, I've always been like that. like, my first job was at McDonald's at 16 and I lasted half a shift and then pulled a Scarface from the movie Hept Baked and was like, F you, F you, F you, you're cool and I'm out. You know, it wasn't for me. And I always got jobs where I would go like door to door, setting up like free consultations for some thermal windows, siding gutters, whatever.

Paul Povolni (26:24.462)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

ZachBabcock.com (26:38.189)
stuff like that sales commission base, cause I can make more and I didn't, you I didn't have, I still had a cap, but it wasn't capped. Like you're getting paid seven 50 an hour or whatever the minimum wage was at that time. You know, it was like, Hey, you can get paid this minimum wage plus if you go and sell this, this and this. So that was always appealed more to me. That's where I came from. And I used to hustle little stuff like Pokemon cards in school or whatever. So I always had that, but, for me,

Paul Povolni (26:58.797)
Yeah.

Paul Povolni (27:02.894)
You

ZachBabcock.com (27:05.211)
what it was where I realized that I was going to have to do something different was when I got out for that two years before I went back for that DWI, when I got rejected at the buckle, like I'm so grateful for that because like at that time it defeated me. But like, okay, that same experience led me to being here right now and, you know, going through all the stuff that I did, learning that I can go and create whatever I want, you know what I'm saying? So I'm so grateful for now looking back, right? But

Paul Povolni (27:30.85)
Right, right.

ZachBabcock.com (27:33.531)
When I was in prison though, I knew that I wasn't going to be able to get a good job. So my plan was, and this is, this is, you know, 2014 too. And so Michael Brown situation just happened in, in Ferguson and, and I'm sitting there like, got a guy, you know, cause we got TVs and stuff from there and I'm looking at my city burn on CNN and all these BS media sites that I never trusted ever in my life before. It was even cool not to trust them, but what do call it?

So I'm calling my mom and stuff, you know, and making sure she's all right. But like, my whole thing was like, all right, well, when I get out, I'm going to make these bracelets that say I heart Ferguson on them in these t shirts, and I'm gonna go door to door selling them. And that never panned out. And it never happened. But that was like the plan that I was that I had in prison never ended up doing any of that. But yeah.

Paul Povolni (28:00.952)
Ha ha.

Paul Povolni (28:17.39)
Hahaha

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But that's the entrepreneurial mind. And that's sometimes the ADD mind that, you know, you, you have these brilliant ideas that keep you up at night and, sometimes they come to fruition and sometimes they don't, but your mind's constantly going. Right. And so what was the first thing that you did post prison that kind of gave you that hope of success?

ZachBabcock.com (28:26.29)
Mm-hmm.

ZachBabcock.com (28:45.575)
Yeah, well, I got right out and I, people, places and things, that's all I knew. So I wasn't hanging out with anybody. It was doing that old life. Like I was hanging out with people that had their shit, stuff together. Sorry, I didn't mean to cuss, I didn't know if you can cuss or not, but have your stuff together. And so I got out and I said, I knew good habits. I knew that was gonna be, know, people, places, things, good habits, is the things. And so I was working out.

Paul Povolni (28:58.67)
No, that's fine.

ZachBabcock.com (29:10.131)
at the gym consistently every day. And I ran into a guy one time and he was in there asking me if I wanted to try some drink. And no, reached out. No, this was, I'm sorry. He reached out to me on an Instagram post that I posted asking me if I wanted to try some drink. And I was like, nah dude, but I don't know why, I was like, nah dude, but like, is there a way that I could sell it, some money too or something? Cause I just asked him that bluntly and he's like, yeah, man. It was a network marketing thing. And he's like, yeah, man, it was end up being Zango. And so

Paul Povolni (29:23.168)
Yeah, you're cool.

Paul Povolni (29:37.901)
Yeah, yeah.

ZachBabcock.com (29:38.451)
So I ended up getting into this in network marketing and dude, so many people talk smack about network marketing and rightfully so there's a lot of like, you whatever, but that's everywhere, you know, but dude, I'm grateful for network marketing, dude, cause dude, I got in there and I went from zero to making nearly $2,000 a month within my first six months. And for a guy coming out of prison, like I was making more money than most of the people I went to high school with.

Paul Povolni (29:54.796)
Yeah.

ZachBabcock.com (30:04.687)
And I couldn't even get a job, you know, when I first came out of prison, I was trying to find something just to give me something to get this t shirt and wristband idea going, right. And, but I got into network marketing and was making nearly $2,000 a month off of residuals. So was like, hell yes. And it introduced me to personal development. That's when I started reading, you know, self development books and all this stuff. So it was cool, man. But that was the moment though is when I had the success.

Paul Povolni (30:06.657)
Yeah, yeah.

Paul Povolni (30:14.158)
Hahaha.

Paul Povolni (30:21.77)
Hahaha

Paul Povolni (30:28.704)
And this was all the, all the drinks.

ZachBabcock.com (30:30.171)
Yeah, with the Zango drinks. And Zango's not even a company no more. used to be.

Paul Povolni (30:34.198)
Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Network marketing, marketing does get a bad rap. It's not all bad. I mean, there's people that abuse pretty much every industry and every strata of life and, and whatever. And so, yeah, it's not all bad. And so, okay. So you, you're launching, you, did this drink thing. You finally like have hope and you're like, okay, this is my, my thing. I've finally found where I'm flowing. what, were some of those books you said you read some books?

that, impacted you. What, what were some of those books that you read that kind of started shifting your, your brain, from where it was from, you know, the abuse and the pain and the hurt and the rejection and, and the turmoil, what were some of those books that you read that really started impacting?

ZachBabcock.com (31:20.755)
All right. So from right here, where we're talking about when I was in network marketing, before I even start before I left network marketing and built my own business, I wasn't thinking about none of that stuff. I was thinking about success and like growth and like, you know, entrepreneurial type things. I wasn't thinking about healing up unresolved trauma. That wasn't even a thought at this point in my life. And really, all I did was switch from

Paul Povolni (31:45.656)
Yeah.

ZachBabcock.com (31:49.969)
before all I was, I've lived on edge for so long, man. And before, I lived on edge and would, never was feeling enough, never felt like I was good enough and I was looking for all this in all these external places and in the wrong external places and drugs, violence, women, getting in trouble, just whatever, stuff like that, getting that,

Paul Povolni (31:58.2)
Yeah.

ZachBabcock.com (32:18.929)
that adrenaline hit that rush there from all those bad things. And then I switched my life around when my twin sons were born. said, I'm done with all that. But all I did was switch that to getting that from growing the business, know, and like crushing goals. And so I crushed all these goals and getting all these hits, these dopamine hits, you know, from checking off the goals, right? And hitting that goal, you know, hitting that goal and building it to this level. But it was all emptiness, man, because it was just like moving the goalpost because every time I would do it,

Paul Povolni (32:33.464)
Right, right.

Paul Povolni (32:41.375)
Right, right.

ZachBabcock.com (32:47.795)
All right, yeah, 20 seconds and then 20 seconds later, what's next, man? Is that it? Is that that it? You know? Yeah, and so I went through that for the next few years. was massively successful professionally and from the outside looking in, everybody's like, man, this dude's killing it. dude was just in prison a couple of years and now he's sitting down with Andy Farsilla, Grant Cardone, and like in person, Dan Fleischman and Patrick Bette David, like all these crazy big names and shit.

Paul Povolni (32:53.917)
Right, right. The next hit. Yeah.

ZachBabcock.com (33:17.683)
Like this dude was just in prison a few years ago and now he's got this podcast agency that he's kicking ass with and rubbing elbows with all these dudes. Like, how is he doing it? And I was miserable inside, dude. And, and then that in 2021, cause you know, this is 2017 when I was in network marketing, we fast forward all the to 2021 after I built the business and went through this whole process of like, why am I not happy? did, you know, I did everything that they said I never do and I'm still not happy. And that's, know, in 2021, when I had that mastermind.

Paul Povolni (33:28.387)
Yeah.

ZachBabcock.com (33:47.665)
And I left that mastermind and went directly to Sean Whalen's office at Lion's Not Cheap to interview him on my podcast and was still feeling like, I'm not happy, man. Like what, what the fuck's going on here? That's, that's when I started like, all right, something's got to change. Something's not right with me in Word. And I need to go and look into that further.

Paul Povolni (34:00.419)
Yeah.

Paul Povolni (34:08.364)
Yeah. And so, you you're on these podcasts. now were they also guests on your podcast or you guessed on their podcast?

ZachBabcock.com (34:15.143)
They're mostly guests on my pod. I've been on on quite a few big podcasts like Bradley's dropping bombs and I won't go down a sub bit mostly on my podcast is what I would do is I would I would interview these big names on my podcast and then I just keep on keep that momentum going and ask you know another big name just keep that going so it help me in a sense grow my own brain and then also grow grow our own podcast agency because I was literally doing what we were helping people with.

Paul Povolni (34:36.835)
Right.

Paul Povolni (34:43.746)
Yeah. So you're finding all the success in doing podcasts and having, you know, these, these, big names, these people that, you know, had their own channels as well, and you're rubbing shoulders with them. but was, was, did they know the turmoil that was going on inside of you? Did they, did they recognize it or was that something that you had learned to hide really well?

ZachBabcock.com (35:09.443)
No, they didn't because they had the same inner turmoil going on with themselves. Most of these super successful, highly driven success at all costs. Fucking quit being a bitch, go out, make it happen. Like that's who I was and, and they're still got that going on too. That's where it comes from. like, dude, like, and, and it's a, dude, that can drive you and get you to very successful places. But then you get to a point where it's just like me, I hit like midlife.

Paul Povolni (35:24.79)
Right. Hustle, hustle culture. Yeah.

ZachBabcock.com (35:38.449)
You know, I'm 36. And like when you hit midlife, your whole world gets flipped. You know, what's up, man? Your whole world gets flipped upside down. All these things that you thought were truths your whole life, like, wow, you know, and it's just like, so and people call it a midlife crisis. It's not a midlife crisis, man. It's the midlife transition. It's literally part of the human psyche. Everybody's going to go through it. you know, a lot of people, a lot of men go hit that part and they run from it. It's an opportunity for you to create who you want to be for rest of your life.

Paul Povolni (35:45.806)
Yeah.

ZachBabcock.com (36:07.943)
or to keep running stuff. So yeah, man, no, they didn't see it. You know, and I'm pretty sure, you know, not all of them were like that too. And I want to say every single one of them. Like, come on now, there's like some of those dudes I listed off, you know, that they're kind of still in that, in that, in that, you know, and

Paul Povolni (36:22.166)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. There, there is a, a, an unhealthy version of hustle. think hustle is good. I think hustle, you know, isn't, isn't a bad thing. but there's certainly an unhealthy where it's like, it's almost like what you would you shared that you hustle to the next dopamine rush to the next dopamine rush to the next, you know, and you're not dealing with what you were dealing with, with all this other inner stuff that

ZachBabcock.com (36:31.964)
Of course.

Paul Povolni (36:51.562)
It's like, no, I just ignore that because I'm going for the next hustle dopamine hit, you know, and next hustle dopamine hit, you know, I'm grinding, I'm getting up and taking, you know, whatever ice baths I'm doing, you know, I'm doing all these, you know, things to get that, that next shot of, of adrenaline and dopamine and satisfaction, but not dealing with something that is literally a ticking time bomb.

within you that you're just avoiding, you're extending the fuse. Maybe that's way to put it. You're extending the fuse with all these activities, but you're not actually dealing with something that is going to blow up at some point on somebody, on some relationship, on some person, on some thing. And that's dangerous, right? And is that what you were feeling?

ZachBabcock.com (37:40.915)
Dude, 1000 % man, like you hit that on the money man, like you said, a ticking time or you're just prolonging it. Like dude, like going back to even what I was talking about with hitting midlife, like when you hit midlife, your shadow, it's harder to conceal your shadow. We all going around, everybody has a shadow and your shadow is all the, I mean you know what your shadow is, but like for listeners, like your shadow is everything that's unexpressed about you.

And you have good qualities about you and you got bad qualities from, I don't want to say from society standpoint, you have good qualities about you and bad qualities about you based on society standpoint. And we all have animalistic qualities about ourselves. We're all capable of very dark, violent things. You know what I'm saying? not even just violent things, but just your shadow qualities, anything that's unexpressed.

Paul Povolni (38:24.248)
Right.

ZachBabcock.com (38:36.901)
And as you hit that midlife, it becomes so hard to conceal that it literally your shadow comes out. Even what, what worked to get you here no longer is going to work to get you there at this point. And, and that's when you got to, you know, like you said, go inward and, and, and incorporate that shadow with the rest of your ego or else you're going to be, you're going to, you're, are in that crisis. You are in that person that, that continues to drown.

Paul Povolni (38:49.016)
Right.

ZachBabcock.com (39:03.717)
himself and all the vices and ends up dead or just miserable, you know what I'm saying? At least from my own experience in that regard. But yeah, I couldn't agree a few more, man. It's like a... Until you go out and deal with that stuff, man, you have to bring... One of my favorite... It's not even in the Bible, it's in the book of Thomas. But Jesus said, if you do not...

Paul Povolni (39:10.795)
Right, right.

ZachBabcock.com (39:26.331)
If you do not bring forth what is inside you, what you do not bring forth will destroy you. But if you bring forth what is inside you, what you bring forth will save you. And I might've had that backwards and he said the last part first or whatever, but basically said that exact thing in there. And that's like, it's so true, man. It will literally destroy you if you don't go and deal with

Paul Povolni (39:37.004)
Right.

Paul Povolni (39:45.1)
Yeah, well, I mean, he said the truth. Yeah, and he said the truth will set you set you free. And that is that is absolutely relevant for for everything. know, truth is freeing. And, know, when you don't deal with that shadow stuff and with that, you know, maybe it's maybe it can be called the carnal nature, the carnal side of us, the the side of us that's unsubmitted to God, you know, that that stuff.

can be dangerous, you know, if we don't get that under control. so, you know, and I think with, I think it was Epicurious that might've even said the way up and the way down are the same thing. And basically the way I read that is, you know, if you do things the same way that gets you to a certain point, at some point, if you don't change and evolve and get better that the way up and the way down are the same thing, the way up is going to get you to a certain point.

And it'll also take you down if you keep doing the same thing without changing. so, you know, so you're, you're at this point, you know, you've, you've kind of hitting these good numbers. you, you do this mastermind is this mastermind around doing podcasting.

ZachBabcock.com (40:54.541)
the mastermind that I was hosting. Yeah, it was around it was our podcast agency and coaching. Yeah.

Paul Povolni (40:58.614)
Yeah, yeah.

Paul Povolni (41:02.542)
And so, you you, you hit this point where you're doing the, the, mastermind and that was a turning point, a head smack moment for you. Is this all under alpha underdog or is this under a different moniker?

ZachBabcock.com (41:14.449)
different business. Yeah, Alpha Underdog is what I do now. Alpha Underdog wasn't even there yet.

Paul Povolni (41:17.985)
Okay.

Paul Povolni (41:22.378)
Okay. So, so the turning point that happened after this mastermind, was that just kind of a, another one of those, you know, like you were sitting in the cell and you thought about your twins. that just one of those moments of, another head smack? Yeah. That, that was just like a, a, a, a hyper realization of the situation that you're in or did something happen or was it, was it, was there some sort of an other thing that prompted that moment?

ZachBabcock.com (41:33.053)
Another head smack moment.

ZachBabcock.com (41:48.861)
No, 1000 % man. Quite a few man. That led up to a quite a few head smack moments that led up to one was interviewing Tucker Max on my podcast and it's all my podcast still. And first part of interview is like, awesome, we're talking about business, this and that. And then I started going talking about personal stuff. And he basically called me out on some stuff and it was legit. And

And he was basically, cause I had, I was going and I was telling him about how my mom was great mom. You know, she always had my back She was always there for me, but it helped me build up my confidence. then, but then she, she also kind of wasn't, you know, cause it was also the, the stuff where, know, where she, you know, put me in the, in in the boys home stuff like that. And he's like, wait a minute, you just contradicted yourself or whatnot. And my immediate gut reaction was like,

to be like, man, fuck you, dude. Like, you don't know me, dude. Like, you don't even, you know, that was my immediate gut reaction. But I was like, no, dude, like, what if he's right? What if there's some stones here? You have an unturned, what if he, you know, what if he's, what if this stings because it's right? You know? And so I had this, you know, and I was so grateful that I had the self-awareness to realize that in that moment, because a lot of people don't, man, and grateful that I didn't run away from it.

Paul Povolni (43:01.769)
Right, right, right.

ZachBabcock.com (43:11.025)
man, because lot of people do. And I started questioning that. And that's one of the head smack moments. And that was right before the mastermind. And when I had the mastermind and was like, dude, like, I was like, that's when that at the mastermind was like, when I that's when I realized I was like, dude, it doesn't matter how big I fucking grow this thing. I'm always going to feel like this. I need this is something with me. Like I there's something inside that I need to go to work on. I don't know what but there's that's what it is.

Paul Povolni (43:35.276)
Yeah.

Paul Povolni (43:40.044)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Just extending the fuse. And so, so what did you do, man? What did you, what did you do to cut the fuse?

ZachBabcock.com (43:40.275)
And so that was like that moment for me.

ZachBabcock.com (43:49.305)
I for this was in January of 2021 and all the way up until I long story short, I some of that I did a bunch of different things. One of the things one of the things that moved the needle for me a lot was the assisted the MDMA assisted psychotherapy that I did. So I went and started researching trauma, everything I could about it extensively the effects and stuff whatnot and read some good books whatnot on there. And I was looking into plant medicine as well.

And then I had Dr. Dan Engel on my podcast. He wrote a book called A Dose of Hope because he does these MDMA assisted psychotherapy. He administers these and right now they have a 70 % cure rate in clinical trials with MDMA assisted psychotherapy for veterans and PTSD cure rate, 70 % cure rate with PTSD, which is crazy. You look at everything else, nothing even comes close to that. Nothing even comes close to it. And this is in clinical trials right now.

And I had him on the pod. So so after I read his book and then I was able to get him on the podcast and be able to pick his brain even further after all the other, you know, studying that I was doing upon this, that's when I I chose. And, you know, I also want to say a disclaimer, man, like I'm not a I'm not a medical professional. I'm sharing my experience with what I did. I'm not telling you what to do or this rights for anybody. You know, you got to decide that on your own. But after me doing all that, you know, I decided like, all right, I'm going to go I'm going to go do this stuff.

Paul Povolni (45:07.19)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

ZachBabcock.com (45:15.247)
and try and see what's about and dude, when I say I spent my whole life doing the wrong things and I turn it to a positive, a father business things, but it still is like a ticking time bomb, the fuse. Well, this was the first time I ever had any release in my life, I went, you go and you take your dose. You have the blindfold so you can go inward.

Paul Povolni (45:31.597)
Yeah, yeah.

Paul Povolni (45:36.694)
Wow.

ZachBabcock.com (45:43.683)
And then you play a little music or whatnot, the soothing, whatever. All it does is, best way I can explain it, man, you feel good as hell on it. For me, I felt good as hell on it. also, MDMA, also did that stuff back when I was a teenager too, so I wasn't scared to do it. I did it partying wise when I was a kid, you know? This was intentional, it's completely different. And so you feel good on it, but man, it cracks the psyche open.

Paul Povolni (45:57.038)
Yeah.

Paul Povolni (46:08.611)
Yeah.

ZachBabcock.com (46:13.107)
and allows all of these suppressed traumatic experiences that your ego literally has suppressed to keep away from you because it's sinking, it's protecting you and it's literally stored in your stomach and stuff. There's literally that's where it's stored at. Well, all this stuff is bubbling up to the surface and I'm getting, I'm able to relive it right there and more importantly, feel the emotions that I did not feel in the moment because it was so traumatic. you, you know, and you don't feel those and you're not able to

to feel that so it can pass and you can let it go and shit. know it sounds crazy, but I was able to feel a lot of these stuff that I was coming up, man, and stuff that I had forgotten all about, you know, like, so, so that the, the, the trauma was literally being released through somatic release through my jaws. My jaws were clomping, like chomping down, like, you know, but my, teeth, you know, it was, it was crazy. And then,

Paul Povolni (46:48.426)
Yeah, yeah, wow.

Paul Povolni (47:05.91)
Yeah. Yeah.

ZachBabcock.com (47:08.787)
my house having muscle spasms in my cast. It looks like alien fingers were coming through my cast because it's the muscle spasm from the trauma release. And then, threw up a little bit and had a little bit of diarrhea after the whole session or whatnot. And that's literally the trauma being released from your stomach coming out. then it doesn't, that's just the beginning, bro. You don't just go and do some, go do some drug or whatever. You're fixing. No, it's not, it's not, it's not like that at all.

Paul Povolni (47:15.201)
Wow.

ZachBabcock.com (47:34.067)
you do this medicine and then it brings all that stuff up and now you have the self awareness of it now. And now that's where the integration work and that's a little bit long. We could get deeper into that, but that stuff like that is like basically like letting go of resentments, grudges and, and, and things like that. Like I did with my dad and writing letters and burning them, crying, crying, getting shit out and burning the letters and releasing it. Whole bunch of stuff there, man.

Paul Povolni (47:59.342)
Right, And so it went all the way back to you not crying in the passing of your father from there or did it go earlier? Yeah.

ZachBabcock.com (48:05.779)
Yeah, dude, I've cried. I've cried so much about my dad since 33, dude. And I didn't my whole life. And I still feel weird crying in front of anyone. Like I don't like crying in front of anyone, but dude, you got to. And we're men like, dude, just because we're just conditioned as a society as men, like you're supposed to be tough and not cry or whatever. Like, dude, we feel all the emotions just we're human. All right. And, and you got to get that stuff out, man. And dude.

Paul Povolni (48:13.997)
Yeah.

Paul Povolni (48:24.109)
Yeah.

ZachBabcock.com (48:35.699)
feel so good getting that shit out, you know? And yeah, I still, I still feel weird doing it in front of people. I don't, I go in the other room and get it out, you know, whatever. Do what you got to do, but hey, it is what it is, man.

Paul Povolni (48:45.174)
Yeah. Is that where Alpha Underdog was born?

ZachBabcock.com (48:49.427)
Yes, through all this. Yeah, absolutely. So I've had this man. I said this on my podcast the whole entire time. Even before because I had my podcast before my podcast agency became successful. And I said it the whole entire time on my podcast. Like, that's not the thing that I that's the that's the stepping stone to the next thing. And what I what my what my purpose was like, I wanted to achieve a 9 % recidivism rate nationwide in the US. recidivism is

people going back to prison within a three year after they get released. And it's different based on in each state, but they're all like in the 30s and 40s, they're up there. But not all of them, but a lot of them are up there. And so that was like, I always said that that was a goal, but I just didn't know how I was gonna do that. Paul, I didn't know like, how was I gonna achieve that? I was like, yeah, I could connect with guys coming out of prison, but man, I can't do the work for them. And I can connect with guys that are ready to do the work, but like, how are we gonna do this? And

through me doing this, not just with plant medicine, man, because I said that was just one of the tools. Another big tool that's even more powerful than that is Jiu Jitsu, Brazilian Jiu Jitsu. my God, I started doing that. And that has helped me so much with my mental health and so much with my unresolved trauma. Like such a great powerful tool. my God, not getting that bit.

Paul Povolni (49:57.943)
Wow.

Paul Povolni (50:10.318)
through the teachings, like what specifically around Jujitsu helped with the inner stuff? Was it the physical discipline?

ZachBabcock.com (50:17.821)
Breaking down the ego. Yeah, the physical discipline, breaking down of the ego, like all of it, all of the teaching of the martial art itself, know, what you learn about yourself through that. Just everything, the mind body, it's just mind, body and soul, it truly is. I it's such a great practice. I highly recommend some type of martial arts for everyone.

Paul Povolni (50:27.352)
Yeah.

Paul Povolni (50:41.176)
So what does it mean to be an alpha underdog?

ZachBabcock.com (50:43.493)
And Alpha Underdog is a humble man of God that is a confident, humble man of God that does whatever it takes. So before, and I want to explain to who I, before I answer, I want to explain to who I was, who I was, the identity of who I was before I, before who I am now, right? Because we, that's what I believe life is about, recreating yourself, you know, as you go through different seasons, right? And,

Paul Povolni (51:06.2)
Yeah.

ZachBabcock.com (51:09.895)
who I was before this man, I was the guy that was out to prove everybody wrong. I was like, all right, I'm gonna do whatever it takes to go out there and prove every, cause that's how I felt. Like, felt like everybody was like, you're never gonna be able to go and build a business. never gonna be able to bounce back or come into prison. Really, you know, what I found was that was really just me not feeling like I was good enough. Cause I'm gonna prove them wrong, you know? I, you know, like that was really where that stem from was this cause I didn't feel like I was good enough and other things too. And I didn't feel like.

Paul Povolni (51:31.022)
Yeah.

ZachBabcock.com (51:36.845)
I like I was good enough and I feel like I was worthy of being loved and all these other things. And Alpha Underdog, man, like, I don't need that external, I'm not looking externally for that fulfillment, all that has to come within. You can't get that fulfillment from external stuff. You're in this, you came in this vessel alone, you're leaving alone, this world alone, you're leaving alone. And people, I...

tried to find that fulfillment in external things my whole entire life, whether it was drugs, violence, women to build in a business, being successful, crushing goals, whatever. And it just doesn't happen. So an alpha underdog is a confident, battle tested, humble man of God, committed to doing whatever it takes to reach his potential in life. And that's what an alpha underdog is. And it's not some dude that's

I'm an alpha and I'll get shit done. No, that's that's far from it. Even though Alpha underdog does go and get shit done and committed to a lot to life of excellence and hitting that potential. It's not it's not about that. A lot of times it's more of you know, I can I could come out and it can compact from a from a compassionate standpoint or from a empathetic standpoint, you know, I'm starting to ramble here. But yeah, a lot of people got the wrong meaning when it comes to Alpha Man.

Paul Povolni (52:56.126)
No, no, no, this is good. Yeah, this is good. so, you know, with, with alpha alpha underdog, you know, they almost seem like contradictory terms because, know, you, know, before your mastermind that you had, that was a turning point. were around alpha type people, but they had an inner underdog inner part of them. That wasn't quite what it needed to be. And then you.

you know, before, you know, before you went to prison and then in prison, you were kind of the underdog, right? You didn't feel very alpha about yourself. And so it's kind of an interesting contrast to bringing those two together and finding the balance between those, because neither one is healthy on its own, right? You know, to be just this alpha, know, dominate, know, whatever, hustle, grind, you know, power, know.

ZachBabcock.com (53:52.221)
Yep.

Paul Povolni (53:53.002)
And then, or just having this underdog of, you know, woe is me, poor me, I'll never make it me, you know, I, I'll never succeed. I don't have what it takes. know, and all. so I think either one of those extremes is unhealthy. And I love that you've combined the two and said that, you know, you might be an underdog, but you could still be successful. You might feel like you're an underdog, but if you get the inner work done, if you make the right decisions, then you could reach.

these heights that you never imagined. Am I reading that right?

ZachBabcock.com (54:26.355)
That's pretty, pretty spot on, I would say. It's cool that you even that you notice that because I didn't say anything, but they are contrasting and purposely because it's like, throws like alpha underdog. It's like, wait, wait a minute, right? Because underdog is supposed to be like the person that people are counting out. That's doesn't have a shot to win, right? Like, there's no way this is underdog. Like, you know, they're counting them out. And then like you said, the alpha is like the person that people look at.

Paul Povolni (54:46.733)
Right?

ZachBabcock.com (54:55.005)
That's the person that's going to win. It's going to the top dog, right? And so combining, but yeah, it's the whole, right?

Paul Povolni (54:59.927)
Right.

Paul Povolni (55:05.996)
Right. So what's when you're helping men and now, now is your primarily your primary focus on men right now and working with them and helping them get through some of that shadow stuff, some of that dark stuff.

ZachBabcock.com (55:17.875)
So I don't, so this is exactly what it is. Underdog, it's an apparel company, right? And what we do is how we help men is a dollar of every, so somebody goes and buys a hoodie and a hat and a shirt. It's three different products. So every time somebody buys a product, we put a dollar to this program. So that's three items, three products, it's three bucks goes to that. What we're doing is we're helping 10,000 alpha men, which is

Paul Povolni (55:28.397)
Okay.

ZachBabcock.com (55:45.799)
Veterans, first responders and ex-convicts go through our year long trauma therapy program. That can include plant medicine, but it doesn't have to be plant medicine. That can include jujitsu, but it doesn't have to be jujitsu. We have a program of things a year long that they go through. This isn't even built yet. It is literally ground zero. I literally just launched the Alpha Underdog. Alpha Underdog is built in the program, but we're literally ground zero. just signed my, I got two partners.

Paul Povolni (56:10.829)
Yeah.

ZachBabcock.com (56:15.507)
Cody, who's a strategic advisor, who's been in e-commerce. don't know nothing about e-commerce. You know, I did, I had a podcast agency. E-commerce is a completely different animal, you know? Cody's been there, done that. He's built multimillion dollar outdoor apparel brands, Bucks of Milwaukee, Bucks of America, two of his, so he knows the game. He's our strategic advisor and then Mike, he's my dude. He's the integrator. He's a guy like I'm the ideas guy and the, and the build the culture guy and the

You know, the CEO, the visionary guy, Mike's our CEO that does the stuff that, so we just came together. We're getting this all, this is like cool. Cause this is like ground zero or whatnot. And I love the process of me being able to go out here and document it from, from ground up.

Paul Povolni (56:48.684)
Yeah, yeah.

Paul Povolni (57:01.336)
So I want to give you a moment to share, first of all, to speak to the alpha and then to speak to the underdog. And what would you encourage? Cause you've probably, you've felt like both, right? You've been both in an unhealthy way at some point. Speak first to the alpha. What would you tell them on this side of where you're at? And then speak to the underdog and what would you tell them on this side of where you're at?

ZachBabcock.com (57:30.109)
Dude, this is so cool. This is a cool question, man. I appreciate it for real. I've never been asked something like that, though, but that's cool. So the alpha, I would say to him, I would say you can't pour all of your energy into one area of your life and expect to be a complete man. And I would say to the underdog, you got everything within you to be.

everything you ever want to be exactly what you want to be to be everything that you need to be. You got it all within. It's all within. That's I would say.

Paul Povolni (58:05.902)
That's awesome, man. And so for people that want to get a hold of you, people that want to be a part of your world, that want to connect with you, what's the best way to do that?

ZachBabcock.com (58:15.859)
Zachbabcock.com. I got all my social media on there. can connect with me there. And got my newsletter if you want to get on that to follow the journey and see our progress of how many men were helping along the way. 10,000 plus is the goal. That's our mission. But yeah, it's all on Zachbabcock.com.

Paul Povolni (58:35.82)
Man, that's an amazing mission. So what's a head smack that you wish I'd asked you about or a question you wish I'd asked you about?

ZachBabcock.com (58:43.591)
Man, rewinding this one was such this I'm going to share this one because this is a tool that everybody could walk away with and, it's empowered me many times over. but I was rewinding back to when I did my four year stretch in prison before my, before I got out for two years and went back before my twin sons were born. I was, 21 at the time. I was two years into my four year stretch. I went in when I was 19.

And I'd gotten in trouble for getting tattoos. I got in road up a violation and I had a bunch of different violations. So they threw me in the hole for having a bunch of violations, which is the hole is the prison that's inside of the prisons where you go when you get in trouble, when you're already in trouble. And so the hole is very little to no human interaction. You're locked down in a cell all day long. You get a shower three times a week and you get your trays brought to your door. So it's

pretty miserable down there. It's cold and dark, depressing, dirty until you clean up your cell. Usually when you go in there, it's filthy until you clean it up yourself. But yeah, man, so you get the point. And I was in there and it was too, I had to go in there for 60 days. And so I was two weeks into that 60 day, whatever you call sentence into the hole in prison or whatnot.

Paul Povolni (59:50.646)
Yeah, yeah.

ZachBabcock.com (01:00:07.919)
And I had gotten called back to the captain's office and they brought me back in shackles and cuffs. And I get back there and the captain's sitting behind his desk, black hat, white shirt, gold badge, arms crossed, sitting behind the desk, you know, with a little meme mug on his face, a little scrowl. And he's like, Mr. Babcock, how long you been locked up? And I'm like, two years. And I'm sitting there and back in my mind like, man, they're trying to get me to tell on somebody for something or they're trying, somebody told on me for something. You know, that's what I was thinking. And I was like, I ain't telling nobody nothing, you know, or whatever.

Paul Povolni (01:00:37.108)
Yeah, yeah.

ZachBabcock.com (01:00:37.785)
And, and so he's like, well, you know, when you come back here, this is never good news, right? And I was like, Hey, look, man, I ain't got nothing to say to, me back in my cell, man. And, he's like, Mr. Babcock, we got a phone call, over the weekend, your mom, or you got a phone call earlier today, your mom, found your sister in a bathroom dead with a needle in her arm. And that was it. And it was like, and so like, I wouldn't expect him that. And, and so like I went from, remember just sitting there and like being shocked and then just like,

Paul Povolni (01:00:59.607)
man.

ZachBabcock.com (01:01:07.635)
it hitting and just like tears bursting out and whatnot. And they ended up giving me a 30 second phone call to my mom. I'm sitting there saying like, I love you. She's telling me love me. And then the phone hangs up. And then I go back into my cell and I asked to be putting a cell by myself because I had to sell you know, I said, Hey, it's raining because the hole wasn't filled up. I said, anyway, I can get a cell by myself. And the CEOs were cool about that. And they actually let me get a cell by myself. And for the next three days, I sat there cried, you know, thinking about all the, you know, all the memories with my sister, all the

hurtful things I've ever done to her, know, that's sitting there eating at me, all these things, right? And then I remember on that third day though, I got up and I was just like, God, I don't know what the reason is for me to even be here right now. Like my life ain't looking great, but I know there is a reason or else I wouldn't be here. What can I do right now to find happiness and peace? And that's the question I asked. And that question,

You know, I didn't have, you know, a whole lot of options, but I was, you know, I'm trapped in this eight by 10 cell. I could walk three steps this way and three steps that way. That's about as far as I'm going. I didn't have a whole lot of freedoms in that cell, but I had the freedom of choice, freedom to do, to govern it, you know, my way. so, so what I did is I completely cleaned that, like I'm talking about like to the T O C like OCD don't have shit on me when it comes to this.

to the T had a routine where every single day was doing the same exact thing at the same exact time, tooth place got put in the same exact spot in the cell. when the nurse came around, everything to the T, right? And there was order, you know, and there was discipline. There was order in the cell. I had a routine. I was clean. I was working out, taking care of myself. Long story short, reading the Bible. long story short, you know, at the end of this 60 day,

Paul Povolni (01:02:36.194)
Hahaha

ZachBabcock.com (01:03:04.275)
in the whole, I felt at that point in my life more at peace than I've ever felt in my life. And, I felt like the first time, you know, when I got out, I felt like first time that I could stand on my own, like, because before, like I would always do stuff to try and fit in and I would do really stupid, dumb things and get in trouble in prison and even before prison to fit in with the other people. And now I, from that moment on, I never felt like to, I never went and did stupid shit to try and be accepted by.

by someone else. You know what I'm saying after that? know, like little stuff like that. And the lesson though, man, was like, like, man, I couldn't control the fact that my sister had died. You know, like, I can't control that. But I got to control my response. I got to control how I responded to that. You know, I could have sat there and been miserable and chose to just keep going down the drain. But I chose to

Paul Povolni (01:03:37.41)
Yeah, yeah.

Paul Povolni (01:03:48.44)
Right.

Paul Povolni (01:03:53.325)
Yeah.

ZachBabcock.com (01:03:57.351)
do the next right thing and do the next best thing that's going to help me find happiness, peace. And the second lesson in that, and I'll wrap it up here, asking the right questions, man. Like, you you ask a question, you automatically are looking for the answer. So if you ask the wrong questions, why is this always going to happen to me? You're going to get the wrong answers. But you've asked empowering questions. What can I do right now to find happiness and peace? Or what's the next best step that I can take that's going to bring me closer to my goal? Or whatever, right?

Paul Povolni (01:04:08.803)
Yeah.

ZachBabcock.com (01:04:26.673)
You ask the right questions, you'll get the right answers.

Paul Povolni (01:04:31.158)
Yeah, man, that's amazing. was this time, after you found out your, your sister passed away, was that your first God encounter or had you had God encounters before then?

ZachBabcock.com (01:04:41.949)
I've had God encounters before then that was probably like a stronger, deeper one, felt like, felt so close to God and at peace with myself in that time. Like at the end of there, like I was so happy just cause I got out the hole and I was just so grateful just for to have warm food three times a day. And I would see like a bird on the prison yard and just like,

be appreciative of the nature and the, you know, of having life, just little things. So grateful for just so grateful for the little things, man. It just, was, it was just a real peaceful, peaceful time. You know, after going through some really dark time.

Paul Povolni (01:05:11.106)
Yeah.

Paul Povolni (01:05:19.352)
So when did the other God counters come?

ZachBabcock.com (01:05:23.719)
When did the other what?

Paul Povolni (01:05:27.18)
guard encounters when you said that it was one of them. When did like throughout your life? I mean, it sounds like quite, you know, the story is incredible, but you mentioned that there were other God encounters. When were those and how did those come?

ZachBabcock.com (01:05:31.453)
Yeah.

ZachBabcock.com (01:05:42.173)
so many like dude, like one that came up in one of my MDMA assisted psychotherapy sessions that I had forgotten all about. This is before I went to prison, we were going around and robbing crack dealers, man, I was smoking crack and what she called, we had went in Kinloch, you know, Kinloch right next to Ferguson. It's not a good neighborhood. And it's even worse in Ferguson and we were going in there. And what he called the crack dealer would put is, I'm driving.

And I got my buddy in the front and our plan is they put his hand in the car to show us which rock we wanted to pick, which $20 rock we wanted. And we smacked the rocks out of his hand and drive off. And I'm driving off and guns hit in the car, you know, it hit the car and stuff. like, God had my back in that moment because I don't have any other answer. Like, you know what I'm saying?

You know, and like, I just remember in that moment like this, like thinking like, like it was like, was like surreal, like it wasn't, like it wasn't even real. And like, I don't know. It's hard to explain that, you know what saying? But you know how, when you feel like there's nothing that you can't explain, like there's nothing else that got us through this moment right now, but God, like, I don't know how to explain it. That was, that was another one. But many moments like that, you know, near-death experiences, stuff like that, but also,

Paul Povolni (01:06:36.739)
Yeah.

Paul Povolni (01:06:50.027)
Yeah, yeah.

Paul Povolni (01:06:57.655)
Yeah.

ZachBabcock.com (01:07:02.771)
just so many times in my life, where it looks like things are gonna crumble and then like a miracle happens last minute. You know what I'm saying? Like, that's how I know, for me at least, how, that's, I believe 1000 % in God. And I know not everybody does and I don't try and push that upon everybody, but I do believe in God.

Paul Povolni (01:07:14.656)
Yeah, yeah.

Paul Povolni (01:07:24.012)
Yeah, that's awesome, man. so after that encounter in the prison, where you OCD and cleaned up everything, were there any other God encounters that helped you along the way?

ZachBabcock.com (01:07:36.711)
Yeah, well...

ZachBabcock.com (01:07:44.595)
There wasn't no like big moment like that, but there was moments just like, just like from from there, like I felt like God was with me. You know what I'm saying? Like, and, and that was, but then that also did kind of go away though, too. That also did go away during my sentence. It was, it was there for like a good six months, but like then I stopped feeling as close to God and kind of went, started going back into the negativity that was around me, you know, getting involved with, you know, just doing stupid stuff or whatever.

Paul Povolni (01:07:55.319)
Yeah, yeah.

ZachBabcock.com (01:08:14.067)
like gambling or whatever or whatever to pass my time in prison and whatnot. I wasn't never like I still wasn't to where I was like, I don't believe in God. I always believe in God. But I didn't feel like that strong connection and relationship in that piece like I did so strongly shortly after my sister passed.

Paul Povolni (01:08:36.418)
Yeah. Well, man, it's been an amazing conversation and you've got an amazing story. I'm excited for what you're doing with Alpha Underdog. Everybody be sure to check out his website. I'll put a link also in the notes. I'll also share this on social media. And so be sure to connect with Zach and support what he's doing and proud of you, man. Thank you for being, being on. And this is a great conversation.

ZachBabcock.com (01:08:59.891)
Paul, thank you for having me on the show today. super blessed, super grateful that you had me on this platform. Very grateful. Thank you, man.

Paul Povolni (01:09:08.0)
Alright, you have a good one, take care.