Joel Zeff / National Keynote Speaker. Author. Work Culture Expert. Humorist

Many professionals struggle with workplace monotony, poor team dynamics, and difficulty adapting to change, leading to decreased productivity and job satisfaction.

Imagine a workplace where creativity flourishes, teams collaborate seamlessly, and individuals are energized by their work. Picture yourself confidently navigating career transitions and inspiring others with your innovative approach to challenges.

In this episode, Joel Zeff reveals how improv techniques and a positive mindset can transform your work life. Stay tuned to discover practical strategies for boosting creativity, improving team communication, and finding joy in your professional journey.

5 Key Takeaways:

• How humor can break down communication barriers
• The importance of improv in fostering innovation and teamwork
• How to create a positive work-life balance for yourself and your team
• Strategies for managing change through spontaneity and humor
• Tips for engaging and energizing employees with fun workplace activities

Link: joelzeff.com
Buy his book: Amazon

Paul Povolni, the founder of Voppa Creative, has been a creative leader for over 30 years, with clients around the world. He’s led teams in creating award-winning branding and design as well as equipping his clients to lead with Clarity, Creativity and Culture.

Headsmack Website

Transcript

Paul Povolni (07:08.895)
Hey, welcome to the Headsmack podcast. My name is Paul Povolni and I'm excited to have another misfit with me today. Today it is Joel Zeff and Joel creates energy. His spontaneous humor and vital messages have thrilled audiences for almost 25 years. And as a national workplace expert speaker and author and humorous, Joel captivates audiences with the unique blend of hilarious improvisational comedy. Almost didn't say that word, right? And essential ideas on work and life. He has shared his experience with.

more than at more than 2 ,500 events. And his book, Make the Right Choice, Creating a Positive, Innovative and Productive Work -Life is consistently listed as one of the top work -life balance books on Amazon. He has also appeared on CNBC, featured on the Dallas Morning News, Houston Chronicle, the Kansas City Star, and many other media outlets. Hello, Joel, you sound pretty busy.

Joel Zeff (08:03.28)
Hello Paul, that was a good introduction. That was, yeah, that might have been the best introduction that I've received at doing a podcast. It sounds like, sounds like I wrote it is what it sounds like. That's how great it was. I think I wrote it.

Paul Povolni (08:04.895)
Thank you.

Paul Povolni (08:14.207)
Yeah, well, thank you. Thank you. It's from the heart. It's from the heart. And so you haven't got emotional a couple of times there and that's why I messed up. But man, it is so good to have you on. I've been looking forward to this.

Joel Zeff (08:18.832)
Yeah, it felt, it felt like cleaning. It did, it really did.

Yeah!

Joel Zeff (08:29.264)
It's my pleasure. I know we've been connected for a while and congratulations on your new podcast and I'm honored to be a guest.

Paul Povolni (08:36.415)
Thank you, man. Yeah, it's been an absolute fun and we have been connected for a while, I think, through our mutual friend, Eric Hughes. I think he originally was bragging about his friend Joel, and so I had to connect with you. And so I've enjoyed following your adventures on social media. And so I'm looking forward to this conversation. Before we get started, I always, you know, I'm all about the superheroes and I love to hear people's origin stories.

And so you can go as far back as you want, but tell me a little bit about Young Joel, if you want to start there or hey, it's like, where are you from? What are your origins? What, you know, and you don't have to give a ton of details, but just a little bit about Joel, just so for those who don't know you can learn a little bit more about you.

Joel Zeff (09:06.992)
Are we going that far back?

Joel Zeff (09:14.096)
Yeah, yeah.

Joel Zeff (09:19.728)
Yeah, so I'm originally from Kansas City, born and raised and went to the University of Kansas with our mutual friend, Eric Hughes. I'm a Jayhawk and I was a journalism major. So I started my career as a newspaper reporter, worked for a few newspapers and while working in Dallas, actually the first weekend that I moved to Dallas to work at the newspaper, some friends took me to an improv comedy show and it was literally like,

the movies where you want to talk about an origin story where the superhero gets his powers and it's, you know, you have that music. I was bit by the spider, you know, Superman's parents put me in the little pod to send me away. Yeah, I was hit with gamma rays. Everything happened. That was, that was, that was where it happened. And that's where I discovered improvisational comedy. And it was just,

Paul Povolni (09:55.231)
hahahaha

Paul Povolni (10:03.967)
Hit with the gamma rays, yeah.

Hahaha.

Joel Zeff (10:17.487)
It was just absolute passion and love at that first moment. And so I signed up for a workshop because that's what they, you know, they had workshops and, and it was just, it was, you know, where I went to unwind from being a newspaper reporter because it was a tough job. It was a tough situation. I was covering crime and murder and, you know, and, and it was a tough job situation. And so that was my respite. That was my, fortress of solitude.

I'm gonna keep going with the superhero thing, right? I'm gonna keep going with the superhero metaphors. So that was my fortress of solitude. And so I, you know, I just embraced it. I loved it. And so a few months later, six months after I moved to Dallas, Paul, if you're keeping track, the newspaper closed. And yeah, not my fault. A lot of people blame me, Paul. It wasn't my fault. I was like 23, I think. It's not my fault. And so,

Paul Povolni (10:47.103)
Yeah, do it, man. Do it.

Paul Povolni (11:11.551)
Yeah. Yeah, they're like Joel's losing interest. So let's shut it down. He's, he's not in this. His, his heart's not here anymore.

Joel Zeff (11:18.224)
It's yeah, this isn't working. This isn't working. And so I had a lot of free time. And then so I started doing standup comedy and then kept working at the improv at the improv comedy, working with a group. They had their own theater and eventually audition and join the troop. At the same time, I realized, hey, I need to pay rent and I need to eat. Those are two really important things.

Paul Povolni (11:45.663)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's adulting. Right.

Joel Zeff (11:46.736)
Really, really important. That severance check only goes so far. And so I got a job at a PR agency and that led to a job at an advertising agency. Yeah, like too much origin.

Paul Povolni (11:57.183)
So let's, let's hold, hold off just for a second. Let me, let me, pull on that thread. No, no, no, it's perfect. It's amazing. And I don't want to like lose it because I'll get distracted. But the, the fact that you went from, you know, being a reporter to suddenly being doing improv, that's pretty gutsy. Like that's pretty like not everybody has the courage to.

Joel Zeff (12:07.12)
Yeah, there's a lot of questions.

Paul Povolni (12:23.231)
Go on stage for one thing. Like, you know, they say that's the greatest fear people have, you know, more than dying. And Jerry Seinfeld has a whole bit about, I'd rather be in the, in the casket than given the eulogy and all that stuff. So, so where did that courage come from to be on stage and improv? Like that's, that's probably one of them, maybe comedy is, but that's one of the toughest things to do on stage. Like giving a speech is one thing, but come on improv. Where did that come from?

Joel Zeff (12:52.176)
So I was in high school, I was in theater and there was two sides, like two -face in Batman and except for one was an evil. And so one side is very responsible Joel. I need a degree, I got to find a career. And then the other side was, there was comedy, there was a comedian in me. In my high school year, I did a standup in front of the whole high school, 2000 kids. Yeah.

Paul Povolni (13:01.791)
There you go.

Paul Povolni (13:19.263)
wow.

Joel Zeff (13:20.912)
I did a standup routine where I just basically did, you know, impressions of the principals and, you know, made fun of the school. I don't remember what the content was, but I did well and go. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Yes. yeah. Even in eighth grade, there was a talent show. I did a standup routine in eighth grade, in a middle school. So that probably, that could have really damaged me. I probably am damaged.

Paul Povolni (13:22.463)
Yeah.

Paul Povolni (13:31.263)
So in grade school, you were the kid in the back row cutting up. All right. So, so you have always, always been the attention. You've liked it. Yeah.

Paul Povolni (13:43.455)
Wow.

Paul Povolni (13:49.215)
Hahaha.

Joel Zeff (13:50.128)
And so, you know, I did in front of in the form of the eighth grade, I did this stand up routine. And I remember like they ran out of time. And we came back the next day. And I was like, coming up with new material. I'm like, well, if they're gonna give me more time, I'm gonna bring more material. And I remember. And I think, you know, I was doing impressions, I think I had some prop comedy, I don't even I wish to have video of that would be incredible, right would absolutely be incredible.

Paul Povolni (14:04.607)
Hahaha.

Paul Povolni (14:15.327)
Yeah.

Joel Zeff (14:18.384)
So it was always in me. And so when the paper closed and I had a lot of free time and a severance check and I started, you know, why not? What else am I going to do? How many times can you get blood?

Paul Povolni (14:30.719)
Right? And marrow and plasma and yeah.

Joel Zeff (14:34.064)
I did, I was doing that too. I was doing anything to pass the time. This is pre -internet, pre -social media. I mean, I was just coming up with things to, to, to, yeah, yeah, I was just like, well, you know what? I don't have anything today. I think I'm gonna go get blood. I think they have cookies. I'm not kidding. And so I started doing standup. I went down to a club that had an open mic night and they embraced me and,

Paul Povolni (14:39.711)
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, donating your hair, I see. Yeah.

Paul Povolni (14:47.947)
Hahaha

Joel Zeff (15:02.64)
started doing stand -up several times a week, still taking additional workshops with Improv. And so I had these kind of Improv and stand -up are kind of at that time, very different worlds, comedy worlds. And so I had my stand -up friends and someone always had, we're getting four guys and we're gonna do a show at this bar down here. Or, we're doing, they need some stand -ups to open up at the state fair. I mean, we're doing, I mean, you're not,

Paul Povolni (15:16.447)
Right.

Joel Zeff (15:32.144)
hardly getting paid anything. And you're just finding opportunities to do standup. And it was always something, right? There was always somebody who had a show somewhere. And then the improv group, they had their own theater. And so I originally took workshops and finally auditioned and joined the troop and found that to be my true love, the improv.

Paul Povolni (15:55.327)
Yeah. Yeah. So when it comes to improv and what you do now, do you see, cause I talked to somebody, I think it was, Tony Wotley that talked about, he went and did improv, just to help him as a public speaker. I know you, you know, you do training, you do the, the, keynotes and all of those things. Do you see their value in a speaker doing that and why?

Joel Zeff (16:24.624)
So improv is something that, you know, you find that love, that passion, just like, you know, a design is your passion or, you know, everybody has something that, that they truly love. And one of my clients was Texas Instruments, one of my PR clients. And they said, I know you do improv on the weekend. Can you come up and do some of that with us? We're having an executive retreat. And so it was all men, all VP level, a technology company.

It was a small group. So if you're like, what it could be the worst group that you could possibly put together, this is it. And so bizarrely, they had an incredible time and I had an incredible time. And that's when the light bulbs started flickering and people gravitated toward, they loved the engagement of improv. They loved the uniqueness of improv. They loved the accessibility of improv. They love that the equality of improv. I mean, there are so many.

Paul Povolni (16:55.391)
Hahaha

Paul Povolni (17:03.071)
Yeah.

Paul Povolni (17:12.351)
Yeah.

Joel Zeff (17:21.808)
things that bring people to it and allow people to find themselves. And so I just, that the little light bulbs started flickering. And I said, well, maybe I could offer this to some of my clients, but I thought it would only be like small groups and we'd really focus on creativity or innovation. And so, but just like anything, your name gets passed around and someone said, well, we have 200 people. Can you talk about teamwork?

Paul Povolni (17:25.919)
Right.

Joel Zeff (17:51.44)
Yep, yep, I can. And then, you know, we have 300 people. Can you talk about communication? You know it, I'll be right there. And I'd be outside the ballroom, right? And I would like be thinking, okay, what am I going to do? What game would be, or the night before calling some of my improv comedy friends and saying, what about this game? Do you think this game would work? Or what about this game? And it was an evolution.

Paul Povolni (17:52.447)
Yeah.

Paul Povolni (18:06.847)
Yeah.

Joel Zeff (18:17.424)
You know, I play this game and I put myself in this situation because I bring audience volunteers up. I want them to participate, you know, and, and embrace the improv and learn from the improv, but I want them to, to actually do it. And so, you know, it was just an evolution. I would do a game and, and, and then adjust a little bit or put myself in a different position or, put two games together or manipulate the game to, to fit my needs. And then the message came.

from that, you know, I would just be talking from the heart, what improv meant to me and what people can learn from improv, the choices that, that we make during the process. And it just constantly evolved. I still have never sat down. I've done 2 ,500 events. I've never sat down. I'm like, I'm going to say this and then I'm going to say this and then I'm going to do this. It just, the, the keynote itself is improvised in organic. I mean, there's still, you know, there's modules of games of what I want to do.

Paul Povolni (19:13.343)
Well.

Joel Zeff (19:17.488)
And the message that corresponds to that. But when I jump up on stage, it's not for sure I'm going to do this, this, and that. I might, I change my mind all the time and let the audience dictate where I want to go. And I want that, I want that organic feeling and that sense of, that we are improvising, that you're improvising, I'm improvising, and then what we can learn together from that.

Paul Povolni (19:41.951)
And what do they learn? What are the lessons of improv?

Joel Zeff (19:45.136)
There's none.

Paul Povolni (19:47.007)
Now you just said you talked to them about the lessons of improv. Come on now. You did. You did. Let me scroll back.

Joel Zeff (19:49.344)
What? is that what I said? Why were you listening? That's weird. Yeah. Why were you listening? So, improv, I think, teaches us a lot about how we work together as a team, how we communicate, how we innovate, how we are successful during change, how we are leaders. There's a lot of choices that we make. Remember, for those of you...

if they're your, your listeners or, or, or viewers and have never experienced improv, there's no script, there's no rehearsal, there's no plan. Everything's happening right here for the first time with other people. So you're working together with several other people. Remember there's no script. I don't know what you're going to say. You don't know what I'm going to say. We don't know the direction we're going to go. So how do we find success? We find success by making certain choices in how we.

deal with change, being open and flexible, being prepared, being more present and in the moment, being a better listener, helping each other be successful as a key element of improv and how we communicate and how we don't give up what I call staying in the game. There's just a series of messages and that I kind of after each game, I peel back the onion and you know, we kind of talk about that as that's my keynote. You know, some people put PowerPoint up and.

Paul Povolni (21:04.447)
Right.

Paul Povolni (21:10.911)
Right.

Joel Zeff (21:12.976)
You know, put words and acronyms and, you know, and that's how they teach and how I teach, how I want to share my message is through the audience being engaged in improvisation game, learning, laughing and going, how did they do that? And then we talk about, okay, here's the message that allowed that to happen.

Paul Povolni (21:28.735)
Yeah.

Paul Povolni (21:32.575)
Right. So it's basically like life, right? Life is improv, you know, for the most part, you know, and, and, and then you look back at it and you say, well, let me look back and see the lessons that I learned through this particular life that I've lived, which is very different from yesterday, which is different from last week, which is different from 10 years ago. And so that's kind of what it is, right? It's basically you're, you're creating this, you know, condensed, rich.

Joel Zeff (21:38.32)
It is absolutely

Paul Povolni (22:00.095)
version of life and saying, well, let's improvise, let's do things off the cuff, let's do things unplanned, let's react and act in certain ways, and then let's digest and, and unpeel that and see what the lesson is there. So for, for somebody that might be listening to this, he's a leader, she's a leader of a company and they're like, I totally want to do this Monday morning with my team. What would, what would be a, a super small,

digestible or executable version of this to help people understand the power of improv.

Joel Zeff (22:37.072)
So there's lots of little games and in my book, I talk about a lot of exercises and things like that. And actually we can talk about this too, but the book we're doing an expanded revised. We, I don't know, we, the Royal we, the publisher asked me to write an expanded revised edition that's going to come out in the fall and new cover, new subhead, five new chapters, each chapter revised.

Paul Povolni (22:53.343)
Hahaha.

Joel Zeff (23:06.512)
And at each chapter, almost every chapter has ideas and games and that you just mentioned. I think that's a great, a great, here's a great transition, great segue. So here's a game that is called know it all. And you ask a question, one word at a time. I'm sorry. You ask a question, you answer a question, one word at a time. You can play this with two pairs. You can play it a million different ways, but let me, let me. So if everybody paired up in this team.

this fictional team at this fictional company and right paired up and there are two person know it all. And they, they talk one word at a time. So how are you doing? And the other pair, they answer one word at a time. I am fine. And then they asked the question, what is for lunch? And the other two people might say something like, we have a group on, I don't know this group on two words. maybe it's happening.

Paul Povolni (24:03.263)
hahahaha

Joel Zeff (24:06.256)
And so they have a conversation one word at a time. And so, and then they can go find another pair and they can talk one word at a time and, and, or you could do it as a trio and what that, that has several outcomes that I like to share. One is how we work together as a team. We help each other be successful. You know, it's listening to your teammate. You can't anticipate what they're going to say because you're going to anticipate incorrectly.

And cause you have no idea what word they're going to say or what word is coming next. And so you have to react and make the sentence better. So your team is successful and it's not, this isn't one team. You're this, the four of all four are team. And then the more they play, the more confidence they, they get from each other. They trust each other. They, they find success. They say a sentence that's creative or that makes sense. And it's not just the pair that.

that were successful, it was the pair that asked the question. They all kind of are part of that success. They all rejoice in that because they all, what did they do? They took responsibility. You know, they all took, you can play this game and mess up literally every moment and go, I don't know. I don't know what to say, guys. And everybody giggles and it's fun. Cause that's the goal. We want everybody to have fun. But if you take responsibility, you take ownership, you're accountable.

Paul Povolni (25:15.039)
I love that.

Paul Povolni (25:21.951)
hahahaha

Paul Povolni (25:26.655)
Yeah, yeah, right, right.

Joel Zeff (25:33.68)
and you really listen, you want to help your team be successful and you work and you say, okay, I'm ready. I'm going to react. I'm going to say a word, create a sentence. Then all of a sudden now you're successful because everybody took responsibility. Everybody took ownership. And that's a big part of improv is helping your teammates be successful, being a great listener, being very present and in the moment. We're at our best when we're in the moment. and improv forces us, it forces us to be present.

Paul Povolni (26:02.111)
Right, right. Now, isn't there a rule of when somebody says something or asks something, you have to answer or respond in a certain way. And I wish I remember it because now I feel like I don't know what I'm talking about, but.

Joel Zeff (26:02.256)
and really listen to our team.

Joel Zeff (26:12.72)
Yeah. No, no, you're right on. So yes, and that's the most popular, I think, when people talk about improv and that's usually the most popular element that, that people react to. And yes, and means if you say, Hey, let's go rob a bank, Joel. I have to say, yeah, Paul, let's do that. Because if I say no, we don't have, we don't, where do we go from? No.

Paul Povolni (26:18.207)
Okay, okay.

Paul Povolni (26:39.423)
End of story. Right.

Joel Zeff (26:42.864)
There's no, there's nothing. Now I can, I can say, you know, I can say, Paul, if we robbed the bank, you know, we might go to jail, but we have to build on your idea. You introduced the idea that we're going to rob a bank. Now I had to build on that and how I build on that. But if I say, no, not going, then it stops. So yes is yes. I'm a, I'm going to, I'm agreeing to your idea and then I'm going to build on it. What I find though,

Paul Povolni (26:54.975)
Yeah.

Paul Povolni (27:03.519)
Right.

Paul Povolni (27:08.543)
Yeah.

Joel Zeff (27:10.512)
In my keynotes long ago, I decided that if I said yes and to a corporate audience, it was difficult to process, right? You're not going to run around a company and going, yeah, let's do that. Yes. It just doesn't make sense. So what I did is I kind of divided that. Yes to me means positive support, right? Be supportive of each other. And so I really talk about that support. And to me is about opportunity, right? Building on.

Paul Povolni (27:19.039)
Yeah.

Paul Povolni (27:22.847)
Yeah.

Paul Povolni (27:30.591)
Yeah. Okay.

Paul Povolni (27:38.591)
Right.

Joel Zeff (27:40.24)
creating that opportunity and finding success within that opportunity. And so I kind of, I change how I talk about that. It's still within what I am trying to share with my audiences, but I want to take, you know, I'm filtering it through my experience and so it's accessible to the audience.

Paul Povolni (28:02.623)
Yeah. And I would think even in a corporate environment, maybe an alternative would be okay. Or, you know, and so, you know, it's just a different variation of that. You're not even really necessarily agreeing. You're saying, okay, or we could do this. You know, here's, here's another, another version of that. And so, I just thought of that, by the way, that's, that's called improv. And so that just, that just, that just popped in my head. I'm going to write it down and probably, I'll probably tweet on it later.

Joel Zeff (28:12.144)
Right.

Joel Zeff (28:16.4)
Yeah, right.

Joel Zeff (28:23.28)
I love it! Nailed it! Nailed it!

Paul Povolni (28:28.223)
And so, you know, you mentioned about going into a PR job. Now the magic harmonica and losing your job. When did that happen? Did that happen from your newspaper, your reporting days or was that the PR?

Joel Zeff (28:43.184)
Paul, you've done your research and I'm proud of you. The magic harmonica, which I have right here. That is the actual magic harmonica. Yeah, yeah, it's, I have it ready. I'm not gonna, I don't, not every podcast, Paul, not every podcast. I just don't throw it every time. Did you hear it? How's the microphone?

Paul Povolni (28:45.503)
Well, thank you.

Paul Povolni (28:50.975)
What? How impromptu is that?

Yeah. Yeah. I did. Amazing.

Joel Zeff (29:08.496)
So I bought this, I went to a lecture while I was in university. I don't remember the lecture. I'm guessing it was a harmonica player. I don't know. So I bought, but I know I bought this in college at a lecture. And so I have no musical ability, Paul. Let's just start right there. In fact, I'm tone deaf. I have none. I love music, but I don't have any ability. So when this was at the newspaper in 1991,

when they called, it was on a Sunday, and they said, hey, tomorrow's the last newspaper, come clean out your desk, you lost your job. And so you would think, I mean, you'd be angry, sad, confused, defeated, whatever negative emotion you wanna choose. That was one of the best days of my life. That was not a good job, and I wasn't happy. And so it was like a weight had been lifted off my shoulders.

And so as I left my one bedroom apartment with little to no furniture, I grabbed this magic harmonica to go clean out my desk. I don't know why. I don't know why I don't, I never left the house with my harmonica. This was not a thing that happened all the time. And so I, grabbed my harmonica, went down to the, to the paper to clean out my desk. Range of emotions. People are sad. They're crying. They're angry. They're, they're confused. What are they going to do?

Paul Povolni (30:20.959)
Heheheheh

Joel Zeff (30:36.656)
So wide range of emotions. People have been there years, decades. I'd been there six months. I'd been there six months. Didn't have, so I didn't have a lot of, yeah, there wasn't a huge connection. And so I found myself on the back loading dock. In the back loading dock, all the media had assembled the TV news stations, the radio stations. I'm sure there were some journalists, photographers, newspaper journalists, I mean.

Paul Povolni (30:40.511)
Yeah. Yeah.

Paul Povolni (30:45.663)
Right.

Joel Zeff (31:05.776)
And so I kind of surveyed the situation, got out my magic harmonica, and this is what I did. This is a true story. Not one lesson, Paul. I sound pretty good. That's why a harmonica is magic because anybody can blow into a harmonica and sound like for a moment, for a moment, yeah, he might be in Blues Traveler. Blues Traveler might call me and want me to,

Paul Povolni (31:15.631)
Wow.

Paul Povolni (31:25.791)
for a moment. Yeah. Until you get to the chorus.

Joel Zeff (31:35.344)
join the next tour. That reference dated me, but I don't care. I went, I went, I got no job. I got no money. I got nothing. I just lost my job. I got the newspaper blues. They said, come clean out your desk. I came to clean out my desk. Did I mention I have no job? I got no money.

Paul Povolni (31:40.639)
Ha ha ha ha.

Paul Povolni (31:45.599)
Yeah

Joel Zeff (32:04.912)
nothing but in about 30 years I want to be all Headsmack podcast whatever the hell that is

Joel Zeff (32:18.288)
I might have made up that last part because I didn't I didn't time travel. I didn't time travel. So so you could literally it was like it was like the movies Paul you could literally hear the camera go. And yeah, yeah. And so I got a little spittle. This needs to be cleaned. Yeah.

Paul Povolni (32:18.399)
That's amazing.

That was amazing.

Paul Povolni (32:28.703)
Yeah.

Paul Povolni (32:32.391)
What's going on here? Yeah.

Paul Povolni (32:38.655)
That was pretty passionate. Yeah, it's probably got some classic saliva in there from...

Joel Zeff (32:46.8)
It's got some, yeah, there's definitely some in there. Probably got COVID. So, and then someone grabbed my elbow. I can't see their face, but someone grabbed my elbow. I don't know if it was a man or woman. And they said, told me to stop and said, you will never work in this town again. That's a direct quote. I remember that part. Yeah. Which don't, you know, it's like the movies, like a film noir.

Paul Povolni (32:50.207)
Hahaha.

Paul Povolni (33:10.303)
Wow.

Joel Zeff (33:15.76)
You will never work in this town again after that harmonica performance. Yeah, yeah, yeah, you're you got it. And so, so what that taught me and then okay, so then this is 1991. So I'm on two local broadcasts playing the harmonica they kick off. Remember, this is a over 100 year old newspaper. This is a huge historic moment.

Paul Povolni (33:15.879)
Yeah. Over my dead body. Yeah.

Joel Zeff (33:45.872)
and they start the broadcast with this 20, 23, 22, I think I'm 22, 22 or 23 year old idiot in harmonica playing terrible blues. Two news broadcasts started with me playing the harmonica. And why were there balloons? How did that happen? Did you guys see that?

Paul Povolni (33:58.527)
Hahaha.

Paul Povolni (34:09.919)
No, you did that. I think, I think you might have, if you're on an Apple product, you might have it set to, recognize reactions. Yeah. For those of you listening, he just had balloons fly up. I thought it was a real balloon at first. I'm like, okay, this guy is hilarious. Yeah, that was, that was pretty good.

Joel Zeff (34:15.088)
I am.

Joel Zeff (34:19.215)
okay. Let's see.

Joel Zeff (34:26.704)
Yeah, that was awesome. That was awesome. No, no. Well, how about that? So, so two broadcasts. And then the next day in the Fort Worth Star Telegram, there's a huge picture of me playing the harmonica. This ridiculous. It's absolutely ridiculous. And then I had friends across the country go, did I see you on the news playing the harmonica? So like other, you know, affiliates would pick up the

Paul Povolni (34:52.735)
You are picked up, yeah.

Joel Zeff (34:54.288)
Yeah, I went viral in 1991. And I'm like, yeah, this hundred, how I rolled this newspaper, you know, this huge part of history. And here's this, and what it taught me, why did people react to that? And it taught me a couple of things. First off, everybody expected everyone to have the emotion of being sad and angry and confused. They did not expect someone to be playing the harmonica. So when you go against expectations,

Paul Povolni (34:56.351)
Hahaha.

Paul Povolni (35:04.959)
wow.

Joel Zeff (35:23.504)
The attention will go to you. That's number one. Yep. Right. I'm, I'm different than everybody else. So then the focus becomes me. And so the other thing it taught me was that I chose how I was going to react to this situation. I lost my job. I just moved here six months ago. I uprooted what I was doing in Michigan. All this happened, but I could be angry. I could have been upset. I could have been, you know, pissed off that they hired me.

Paul Povolni (35:25.823)
disruption, yeah.

Paul Povolni (35:30.463)
Ryan.

Joel Zeff (35:53.552)
six months ago, they obviously knew that the paper was in trouble. I chose to be, to choose how I reacted. And I chose to be passionate and I chose this energy and to, that this is going to be my reaction. And it, when you make that choice, then you have control. And when you take control, then that opens up more opportunities.

and gives you the energy for the direction that you want to go.

Paul Povolni (36:28.127)
That's amazing. And do you think because of that reaction and the attention that you got that led you to get the job in the PR space or are they unrelated?

Joel Zeff (36:37.872)
No, they probably didn't know. They probably wouldn't have hired me. No, I don't know. I don't know. That's a good question. I don't know. We could ask, but I don't think it, I don't think they really knew. And, but it did give me the confidence, right? It did give me the confidence and it gave me that, you know, you choose how you react to these situations and.

Paul Povolni (36:39.743)
Okay.

Paul Povolni (36:48.415)
Yeah.

Paul Povolni (37:01.343)
Right.

Joel Zeff (37:02.672)
You know, and it gave me the energy and it gave me the inspiration to go do standup comedy, to go do what I wanted to do, to go take an improv workshop, to kind of focus on what I love to do and what I'm passionate about. And, you know, and I think all that, I think it started with that moment, that magic harmonica moment. You know, I didn't necessarily know how I was going to get to where I was going to go, but that was the beginning. That was, that was, I'm on the road.

Paul Povolni (37:08.639)
Right. Right.

Paul Povolni (37:32.543)
And that sounded like it was also a transition from reporter you to who you were to become for the next 30 years. Right? That was, that, that was the big moment that it's, you were closing that door to reporter me with my, Hey, tell me the latest news, what's going on, you know, with your little notepad and your hat with the little thing in it, you know, and, and, and suddenly you became the person that you would become for the next 30 years. In that moment, it was like almost your leaving smallville.

Joel Zeff (37:42.608)
Yeah

Joel Zeff (37:52.324)
Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I liked your impression of a reporter. Hey, hey, what's the news? Hey, tell me what's going on. What's the word, Woody? And, I gotta print the facts. I got a deadline, yeah. And so, you know, I think it was to embrace my silliness.

Paul Povolni (38:01.311)
moment, you know, and that's pretty amazing. Yeah, what's the latest? Stop lying to me. I know what you did. I know what you did. The facts, nothing but the facts, man.

Paul Povolni (38:28.831)
Yeah.

Joel Zeff (38:29.648)
and whimsy and fun. And because that's what my career as a keynote, as an MC is about is bringing that energy and bringing that fun to these events and embracing the silly and embracing the, the whimsy and you know, that it's, it's important to laugh and important to play and important to have fun, even though we do serious work.

Paul Povolni (38:56.927)
Yeah.

Joel Zeff (38:57.136)
at serious jobs and we're serious people, but we still have to have time to laugh and have fun and embrace that play.

Paul Povolni (39:04.447)
Yeah. And for some people, they probably didn't realize that that was an actual thing of actually being a professional MC, of keynote speakers. People know about keynote speakers. You have those happen, you go to conferences, but actually being a professional MC of events. for some people they're like, what? That, that thing exists. Like, so tell me, you know, for that person, that's like, okay, I'm kind of the class clown too. And I would totally have done the harmonica thing. tell me a little bit about what that means.

and what getting into that space would even look like.

Joel Zeff (39:37.968)
didn't really know it existed either. It was new to me. I didn't even know speaking was a thing. I always say speaking chose me because I didn't even know that it was an option. It was a career that they had these huge conferences and they had speakers and emcees. And so, you know, just like anything, you do a great job. Your name gets passed around. And so I would have clients even before I started emceeing, they would ask me to do things like maybe at their trade show.

Paul Povolni (39:47.679)
A gig, yeah.

Joel Zeff (40:06.96)
or we would do a video or that would incorporate the fun and incorporate just me doing me. And so that eventually led to being asked to MC. And so you have these big conferences and to have somebody that is the transition.

Paul Povolni (40:17.503)
Yeah.

Joel Zeff (40:33.136)
Not just, and MC means a lot of different things. Sometimes it's very traditional where you're introducing speakers or you're introducing various aspects of the meeting, or you're doing announcements or maybe giving out some awards, you know, the very traditional. And then sometimes a lot, most of the time when clients bring me as the MC, it, you know, we, we start coloring around the edges.

Paul Povolni (40:49.663)
Right.

Joel Zeff (40:59.92)
And so I start using some of my improv games and I start incorporating the humor and the fun and the audience engagement as little breaks throughout the day. Maybe, you know, it's a couple of times, maybe it's once a day during the session, maybe it's a couple of times, maybe it's throughout. And so maybe it's a combination.

Paul Povolni (41:18.271)
So kind of like a transitional thing or a featured thing.

Joel Zeff (41:21.68)
Yeah, yeah, it could be both. You know, there's no one way to do it. I give you a couple of examples. So, so last week I was at my largest conference that I've ever worked, 7 ,500 to 8 ,000 people and predominantly, 56 countries, very international. The US and Canada were out of that 75 to 8 ,000 people, US and Canadian was probably under a thousand.

Paul Povolni (41:33.791)
Wow.

Paul Povolni (41:51.231)
Wow. Wow.

Joel Zeff (41:51.664)
So the rest was from around the world. And so they, my task was they called them brain breaks. And I had four segments throughout the four day conference. And it was part MC where I would kind of recap some of what we saw and some of the elements, but it was also engaging. I wanted to do something with the audience. I wanted to do something that incorporates the whole audience that they, everyone participates.

and it was also, you know, that entertainment, you know, just a little bit of a, like it's a break, right? So it's, and so that's one, you know, that's just one very non -traditional way to do it. You know, and then I have another client, a jeweler client who, I've been their MC for eight years. And, and so they'll have one session each day, sometimes, sometimes two sessions and.

Paul Povolni (42:26.335)
Right, right, right.

Joel Zeff (42:47.472)
At the end of the session, I had a list of announcements, right? That I needed to make sure that everybody understood to incorporate what's happening, but I wanted to do it in a fun, engaging way. And so no matter what, it's about fun, excuse me, for me, fun and engagement. And so it's just trying to figure out, okay, what's the recipe? What am I gonna put in the pot? What am I gonna do with the audience?

But it's really about, you know, creating, you know, as EMC, creating that energy, being the guide for the whole audience, taking them on a journey and you're their guide. You're the one thing that goes through all the days, right? And so sometimes it's part transition and part entertainment and part structural of, you know, doing, I need to give you this information or I need to make this introduction. And then, and then a lot of it is just,

Paul Povolni (43:25.151)
Right. Right. Right.

Paul Povolni (43:32.063)
Right.

Paul Povolni (43:43.231)
Right.

Joel Zeff (43:46.928)
making sure that the audience is having a great time on that journey and that they're engaged and they're energized. They're entertained.

Paul Povolni (43:50.879)
Yeah.

Right. Well, and I think, I think part of having a successful event or even doing a successful presentation or telling a great story is to have a flow. That's not just one tone. cause I think I know at events, you know, you've got speaker after speaker and some of it's really heady stuff like, my goodness, I've got to write this down. This is amazing. This is awesome. And you know, you do need that brain break. And so having a MC or a transitional person that, you know,

kind of stays on theme, but also is a way for you, your brain to go, let me just rest for a second. Cause that I just felt like I was drinking from a fire hose. And so, you know, there's super value in that. And so if you're a person running events, first of all, call Joel, but secondly, keep that in mind is, you know, don't just have one tone through the entire event, because you're going to overwhelm people. You've got to have some form of transition.

whether it's a live person, a pre -record or whatever, but you've got to have some sort of a break for the brain to make it even more effective. And so that's, you know, what you've been doing for 25 years and it's been super successful. So, so when a, you know, you've mentioned that you spoke in front of 7 ,500 to 8 ,000 people. Do you have the same adrenaline rush to, for that, as you do with a room full of a hundred, or is it a totally different vibe for you in it?

Joel Zeff (45:17.912)
I've spoken to eight people. Yeah, it does because I love what I do. It's rewarding. It's fulfilling. I do love what I do. Obviously speaking to eight people and 8 ,000 people, there's two different energies, two different mindsets. And, but it's really about making sure that you connect to the audience, whether that audience is 8 ,000 and it's international or it's eight people.

Paul Povolni (45:19.295)
Hahaha!

Paul Povolni (45:25.535)
Yeah.

Paul Povolni (45:34.623)
Right.

Paul Povolni (45:46.623)
Right.

Joel Zeff (45:46.672)
And every audience is different, you know, could be an audience of CEOs, could be an audience of entry level or, or frontline team members or, you know, various industries and with different backgrounds and different educations. And, and so it's what's great about improv and comedy is that again, remember we talked earlier, it's an equalizer and it's accessible. And no matter where, where you come from, where you are in the company.

You have that accessibility to improv. You want to play. You want to have fun. It's a unique experience. I don't know what you're going to do and I don't know what I'm going to do, but let's make some magic together. And taking, let's say, what I really love is taking like a manager or a VP and then maybe a frontline team member and put them together in one exercise. And it's just magic and it's amazing.

Paul Povolni (46:40.959)
Yeah, yeah.

Joel Zeff (46:43.472)
how we help each other find success and how we create and how we communicate with each other. And then the best part is the audience gets to laugh and be entertained. And I'm being entertained too. I mean, I've seen, look, the best thing I can have is someone, an audience member that comes up on stage during one of my keynotes and they just go, they're incredible, right? They're hilarious. And I just, I'll just...

Paul Povolni (46:53.503)
Right? Right.

Right.

Paul Povolni (47:08.959)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Joel Zeff (47:11.856)
take a step back, let them be a star. If they're doing, believe me, if they're great, that's gonna make me look great. And sometimes I have an audience volunteer that may be a little tentative and needs a little support, and I'm gonna get involved more and do more in the game to help bring that success out, because no matter what, I want everybody to be successful. And so, the energy of being on stage for me is, that's what I'm after, right? That's...

Paul Povolni (47:13.919)
Right. Right, right.

Joel Zeff (47:39.728)
That's what fulfills and rewards me. And as I say many times, when I'm on stage, I'm not charging. I don't charge to be on stage. That's not what you're paying for. I'll do that for free. I did it for free when I started. What I charge for is to travel, be away from my family, sit next to the annoying person on the airplane, conference calls, accounting, the meeting with the committee. That's what I charge for.

Paul Povolni (47:50.303)
Yeah. Yeah.

Paul Povolni (47:59.743)
You

Paul Povolni (48:07.935)
Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Right. Wow. That's a good perspective. I like that. I hadn't heard anybody say it that way. So, you know, you talked about, you know, getting on stage and, and, and, and just doing it. Has there been a time that you didn't feel it and what do you do to get over that?

Joel Zeff (48:09.424)
The time on stage is free.

Joel Zeff (48:14.384)
Yeah. Yeah.

Joel Zeff (48:26.896)
I, one time I had food poisoning and I, I was, I was feeling something else and I walked off stage and I was like, I tried about, I tried for like five minutes. I told the story there today, like five minutes. And I was like, I'm either going to die on stage, projectile vomit on the front row or pass out or all three. And so that I'm, I'm, I wouldn't either.

Paul Povolni (48:30.175)
Paul Povolni (48:38.079)
man.

Paul Povolni (48:51.743)
They'll never forget it.

Joel Zeff (48:56.336)
And so I was like, I can't do this. And I'm walking up and they were like laughing and clapping. They thought it was part of the show. And the client knew I was sick because I told her that something was wrong. And so I left. I'm sorry for that sound effect. That was the wrong sound effect, Paul. And so, no, you know, even when you may be tired or you're not feeling 100 %

Paul Povolni (48:59.071)
Yeah.

Paul Povolni (49:02.591)
Wow. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

Joel Zeff (49:25.936)
your adrenaline and endorphins take over, and the audience will also create that support. And I talk about that, when I bring audience volunteers up, the, the, the audience laughs and applauds, and I have audience volunteers on stage and you could see their eyes and their body language and their confidence. They do more. And then what happens to the audience laughs and applaud, and then they do more. Well.

Paul Povolni (49:35.871)
Yeah.

Paul Povolni (49:50.399)
Yeah.

Paul Povolni (49:54.015)
Right, right.

Joel Zeff (49:54.512)
For me, I'm a professional, I'm going to do it, whether you... But that laughter and applause is going to help me too. And it creates that endorphin, that release and the adrenaline release, which does not overcome food poisoning. If you have a cold, it will overcome that. If you have a cough or something, it will overcome that, but it will not overcome food poisoning.

Paul Povolni (50:09.887)
hahahaha

Paul Povolni (50:17.055)
Yeah. And you'll probably crash afterwards, like the adrenaline, like, you know, the cold, the cough, adrenaline, and then crash. Yeah.

Joel Zeff (50:20.336)
You do, you absolutely do. You do. Yeah, many times I have had, you know, a cold or something and then you walk off stage and you're like completely clear headed. Everything's like, my gosh, I guess I sweated it out. No, it's all your, you know, it's all that in your body doing that. And then it will go away and that your body high will leave you.

Paul Povolni (50:33.343)
hahahaha

Right.

The chemical battle of, yeah, yeah. Right.

Joel Zeff (50:48.464)
And you're like, you're out. But even, even no matter, even if I'm just a regular, you know, perfectly healthy and I do an event because I'm expending so much energy, you know, and then later in the day, I will just absolutely crash. I just don't. It's just, people always ask me if you really want to make my wife mad, you ask her, is he like that at home?

Paul Povolni (50:48.863)
Ha ha ha.

Paul Povolni (51:01.247)
Yeah.

Paul Povolni (51:06.591)
crash. Yeah.

Joel Zeff (51:16.688)
And, and, and steaming will come out of our ears and fire. It will. Yeah. Because you, you can't be like that all the time. Me on stage and me off stage are completely different. And, and so you can't be like that all the time. And so you have to, adjust and you give a lot when you speak and I give a lot. And then it just, you just, all the energy comes out.

Paul Povolni (51:16.959)
Ha ha ha ha ha.

Paul Povolni (51:21.375)
Yeah.

Paul Povolni (51:26.175)
Right.

Paul Povolni (51:43.871)
Right. So do you have any, rituals or triggers or mindset triggers that you use to transition from the chill Joel to what you are on stage? Do you have any kind of things that you go through? Cause I know sports people do this and I know entertainers do this. Do you have one?

Joel Zeff (52:00.944)
Yeah, good question.

I don't, I think it's really just the moment I walk on stage. And I say this many times, I don't know how donuts get made. I just know donuts are gonna get made when I walk on stage. I don't know what's gonna happen, but I know when I leave, there's gonna be donuts. And so it's really just...

Paul Povolni (52:13.087)
Right. Yeah.

Paul Povolni (52:20.287)
Yeah.

Joel Zeff (52:26.736)
My natural, that's my superpower. And I can't necessarily explain what that, how that happens, but that is, and it's about making that connection to the audience and entertaining the audience and giving them everything and creating that energy. And you gotta remember, so my speaking career in the neighborhood of 2 ,500 events, probably more. And then let's, when I was doing improv, I've,

Paul Povolni (52:29.567)
Yeah. Yeah.

Joel Zeff (52:56.592)
probably done 5 ,000, 6 ,000 somewhere in there improv shows. And then let's throw a couple thousand standup shows in there. And, and I'm probably low on all those numbers. And so it's a whole lifetime and career. And I'm not even talking about being in front of a camera, doing commercials or videos and, you know, doing all that. And so it's been a lifetime in a career of when it's time to go, it's time to go. And, you know,

Paul Povolni (53:00.255)
Wow. Yeah.

Paul Povolni (53:24.767)
Right. Right. Yeah. So stepping through the curtain is like, I guess Superman stepping into the phone booth. Like, you know, reporter. Yeah. Yeah. There you go. Yeah. Yeah. Reporter is over. Now it's time to step in my super power. There we go. And so that was, that's your life. Yeah. Reporter over time to be a Joel's F and D.

Joel Zeff (53:30.096)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I like the one with the superhero metaphors. Yeah. Yeah.

Joel Zeff (53:40.272)
Yeah. Yeah.

yeah yeah i wish i had a bat cave that'd be cool we're really focused on dc i'm more of a marvel guy to tell you the truth but we're

Paul Povolni (53:51.227)
Well, and I forgive you for that and we can continue. There's no reason to stop at this point.

Joel Zeff (53:56.752)
You got hope and excellence right behind you. I'm looking right at Marvel right behind you.

Paul Povolni (54:01.375)
I'm a super, I'm a superhero fan. Superman is my favorite. but I'm not a superhero geek. And so like, I couldn't tell you anything about the comics and like, you know, his issue, whatever did this. I just, I'm, I'm a fan of superhero, so I don't care if Marvel, DC. I just, I love them all, but, I do lean DC though. that's what I kind of grew up on. Yeah. Yeah. So anyway, yeah, that's all right. Yeah. Yeah.

Joel Zeff (54:11.472)
Yeah. Yeah.

Joel Zeff (54:23.564)
Yeah, that's okay. I'm just I lean more toward Marvel when I I mean, I did a little bit but it just never the DC superheroes didn't connect with me as much as the Marvel the Marvel but then sometimes like I got into like some of the independent like spawn I was a big fan of spawn and I think they're doing a new movie like or they keep talking about a new movie. So yeah, I can talk we get new comic I have about we do a whole podcast we talk about comics.

Paul Povolni (54:35.775)
Yeah.

Paul Povolni (54:42.943)
Yeah.

Paul Povolni (54:47.711)
Yeah, they do.

Yeah, so a question on comics is, is iced tea or kryptonite?

Joel Zeff (54:53.68)
You're a jerk.

Joel Zeff (54:58.768)
Is iced tea my kryptonite? Sweet iced tea is my kryptonite. I will spit it out. I love iced tea. And I can't, sweet iced tea is absolutely my kryptonite. I can't stand it. I can't. There's nothing that makes me more unhappy than sweet iced tea. And the same to what really makes me happy. Here's, when you say, tell me your happiest moments in life.

Paul Povolni (54:59.775)
Yeah.

Hahaha!

Yeah.

Paul Povolni (55:17.951)
Yeah.

Joel Zeff (55:28.112)
When I'm at a restaurant and, and the, the server brings a fresh iced tea without me even asking, boom, puts down fresh iced tea. And I go, I just want, I, every time I go, let me tell you something. That is one of my happy moments in my entire life. When somebody brings me a fresh iced tea without even, not a refill, just fresh, full brand new glass, new ice, everything. And I go, I can't even tell you how happy that makes me.

I mean, that is, that's like being on the best roller coaster, right? And you're like, my God, that was an incredible roller coaster. Those moments. And you got it, you got it. When someone gives you a moment like that, you have to acknowledge and tell them that you just gave them, you just gave me this incredibly happy moment. Makes them feel good.

Paul Povolni (56:01.887)
Yeah.

Paul Povolni (56:15.167)
Yeah. Yeah. So talking about happy moments is great. what are, what are some moments? Has there ever been a time when you've been on stage and you like the, they did not react the way you wanted them to react. Like it is absolutely bombed. And you're like this. Not bombed. It, it, it, it, the reaction was not at the scale of your intention. Yeah.

Joel Zeff (56:31.76)
Yeah

Joel Zeff (56:40.816)
Yes, of course. I can tell you many stories. Most of them start with the audience was drunk. So I remember doing this sales group and they kept pushing my time back. It was like mostly men. They'd like been golfing all day and they hired me to be the evening entertainment. And I probably wasn't at my best anyway. So it was, and so, but they were loaded.

Paul Povolni (56:46.655)
Hahaha.

Joel Zeff (57:09.296)
When I say loaded, they were gone. Because they kept pushing my time back and there was no, I wasn't happy, they weren't happy, nobody was happy. And I was like, I'll never get hired by these guys again. And got hired by them a million times because I don't think anybody remembered.

Paul Povolni (57:11.583)
Yeah.

Paul Povolni (57:19.455)
Yeah, yeah.

Paul Povolni (57:26.847)
Yeah.

Everything was new.

Joel Zeff (57:29.704)
Yeah, they didn't remember me. So yeah, no, there's times like that, that it's very few and far between and usually it's extenuating circumstances, you know.

Paul Povolni (57:41.631)
And how do you recover?

Joel Zeff (57:44.56)
I, you know, to tell you the truth, I don't, I, I just go bigger and louder most of the time. It's like something's happening that I don't like. I just keep going. This is louder. I just keep going big and loud. Like I force you to listen. Like you are not going to get away from this. This is just going to be, I'm coming in like a bull to see bull rush it. There was, I'm sorry.

Paul Povolni (57:50.239)
yeah.

Paul Povolni (57:57.087)
Right.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You got all Todd, you got all Todd the right, like, don't ignore me. I want attention, yeah.

Joel Zeff (58:10.864)
There was. Yeah. I told you about the time I walked off stage when I had food poisoning. There's one other time I walked off stage. So twice in my career that I walked off stage, I was doing this event and let's, let's preface it with, I gave them a really good deal and I made a special thing. I like flew in and I had to like fit the event in between a couple other events. I made a special deal. And so it was at a convention center.

Paul Povolni (58:17.951)
Right.

Paul Povolni (58:22.143)
Yeah.

Joel Zeff (58:39.728)
And in the convention center, they had set up the stage and they had the audience. And then around, surrounding the chairs was a trade show. Okay. It was a trade show, you know, booths trade show. And the client was, the client said, you know, the trade show ends before you start speaking. Great. Fantastic. And so these two ladies get up and they start doing announcements.

Paul Povolni (58:50.271)
But yeah, yeah.

Joel Zeff (59:08.88)
The trade show's not ending. Nobody, because you know, people, they rent these tables. They're not gonna stop selling. They paid for this. I get it. I totally get it. But probably should have the trade show in a different room. Not in the same room where the audience is. And so these, the two women, they were talking and nobody was listening. Nobody was coming to sit down in the chairs.

Paul Povolni (59:10.943)
Hehehe

Paul Povolni (59:15.423)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Joel Zeff (59:36.592)
And I turned to the AV guy and I go, this isn't going to go good. And right next to the stage, right next to the stage, there was the booth had like a wheel of fortune, like a big wheel. Like right next to the stage. So people could win a koozie or a, you know, whatever they're winning.

Paul Povolni (59:39.583)
Yeah.

Paul Povolni (59:49.503)
wow, yeah.

Paul Povolni (59:59.615)
Yeah.

Paul Povolni (01:00:07.231)
man, sounds ideal, sounds ideal, yeah.

Joel Zeff (01:00:07.312)
Yeah, I'm living the dream, baby. And so I just remembered, I remember turning the AV guy go, this is not going good. He's like, dude, I know. And the ladies were supposed to shut down, try to get the trade show to shut down and get everybody to move to the chairs. It was not happening.

Paul Povolni (01:00:19.343)
You

Joel Zeff (01:00:31.728)
And so they just go full bore and introduce me. And so I get up there, there's probably like eight people sitting in the chairs and you know, I, I'm going to give it a shot. I'm going to try. I'm going to help. So I went with it. You know, I went with the fun way. Hey, the trade show ends. Come on over. We're going to start the program. You know, I think I even might have taken the microphone and like went into the audience to the trade show. I'm like, Hey, do you guys,

Paul Povolni (01:00:42.555)
It's what I'm here for, yeah.

Paul Povolni (01:00:58.879)
Ha ha ha!

Joel Zeff (01:01:00.528)
If he could just put down the pens and the stress balls, the koozies just for a minute. And remember, real fortune's not stopping. And so then I started getting a little, you know, like a teacher, you know, okay, it's time, pens down, right? That wasn't working either. So I tried, I tried speaking, I tried, I did about, I don't know.

Paul Povolni (01:01:04.095)
Yeah.

Paul Povolni (01:01:08.895)
man, not stop it.

Paul Povolni (01:01:21.023)
Yeah.

wow.

Joel Zeff (01:01:30.128)
I did like the first, I did an improv first game and the people that were sitting in the audience, they were loving it. But the problem was they couldn't hear anything because you know, and it's concrete, you know, it's a convention center. The sounds like bouncing everywhere. You know, it's like, it's like trying to do, trying to do a keynote in the middle of like a busy restaurant. Doesn't work. And then so, you know, and the guy with the wheel of fortune would not stop. I mean, I was just,

Paul Povolni (01:01:38.207)
Yeah.

yeah, right.

Paul Povolni (01:01:47.967)
hahahaha

Paul Povolni (01:01:55.711)
my goodness. Yeah.

Joel Zeff (01:02:00.176)
my gosh, and so I was like, you know what I go I go it's not fair to you the audience not fair. It's not fair to me So I'm going to step off and if we can get everything situated I'll come back and if not I'll see you guys later and I walked off. Yeah Yeah, walked off gave the client gave the check back Said don't worry about it. I go you want to call me you won't call me again when you have a better situation I'll do it for free even

Paul Povolni (01:02:15.295)
Yeah. Wow. Wow. Wow.

Paul Povolni (01:02:24.991)
I'm out.

Paul Povolni (01:02:29.823)
Yeah. Yeah.

Joel Zeff (01:02:29.904)
I'll even come back and do it for free. And it's just, you have to be, you have to have value. You have to, you know, you have to value what, who you are and what you do. And it's in the contract. You have to provide this space and this space has to have A, B and C and you know, and I have control over this and you weren't doing that. And it was not fair to me, the audience volunteers that I'm bringing up on stage, the audience, not fair to anybody. And so.

Paul Povolni (01:02:34.879)
Right.

Paul Povolni (01:02:38.559)
Right.

Paul Povolni (01:02:49.055)
Right.

Joel Zeff (01:02:59.024)
I'm like, I have value. And that was it. I walked off.

Paul Povolni (01:03:02.687)
Yeah. So for somebody else, you mentioned the contract for somebody else that's like, man, this sounds amazing. I want to do this. What would you recommend to them? No, no, no, no, no. Being a keynote, being an MC, doing these kinds of events. you know, it's for some people, it's probably open up their minds to the opportunities that are really out there. what would you recommend to them for, getting into this? Like, you know, you're, you're 25 years down the road. you know,

Joel Zeff (01:03:10.064)
I'm talking about walking off stage, that does sound amazing.

Paul Povolni (01:03:31.007)
What would you recommend to them for doing this?

Joel Zeff (01:03:33.968)
I think if people want to be a speaker, you have to do two things. One, you have to have something to say. And two, you have to say it well. And there's a lot of people that necessarily don't do both of those things that try to have a career and may have some form of career, but those are the two things. And want to do it. Don't get, I think I find too many speakers, I mean, kind of the new generation of speakers and they got involved in it because they put something on YouTube and, you know, got some popularity or whatever.

They're not doing it because they have something to share. They're doing it because, well, this is, I'm going to create content and I'm going to, I want to, I want income, you know, and it, it's, it's, you have to have something to say and want to say it and want to share it with the people, with the audience. And, you know, like I said, I'm on stage. I do it for free. I have to charge cause I, to be away from my family and to travel and.

Paul Povolni (01:04:13.407)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Paul Povolni (01:04:27.839)
Right.

Joel Zeff (01:04:32.368)
you know, get sick from being on the plane. you know, but I love what I do and it's rewarding and fulfilling. And if you want to be a speaker, you know, do something today that's going to move you forward. You don't have to do everything today, but start building what you want to do, you know, putting an outline together, finding opportunities in your neighborhood. And when I say neighborhood, that means what is around you that.

Paul Povolni (01:04:38.015)
Right.

Joel Zeff (01:05:01.552)
you can speak at is it a school, the local Rotary club, the local marketing association, every, every organization has local chapters, find opportunities to speak at those local chapters to kind of get your feet wet a little bit, you know, find those opportunities and speak and get good at it and then build on that. But a speaking career doesn't happen overnight. It doesn't happen in six months or a year or really even two years. Now you can speak.

But having a career is something different. And so when you're talking about a career, that means that's all you do. That's what you do. And so that takes time to build. But just like anything, you put your energy into it and you do something to move the needle every day. Look where you're going to be in a week, in 30 days, in six months, you just keep moving, keep working at it.

Paul Povolni (01:05:32.895)
Right.

Paul Povolni (01:05:53.631)
That's amazing. Earlier on, you talked about these movie moments that that one sitting on the, on the dock playing the harmonica where it just felt like something out of a movie. Has there been a point in your speaking career where everything seemed to be like live in the dream? Like everything suddenly went slow motion. You're like, my goodness, this is the best. Like you were fully in that moment and realizing to yourself.

This is the best thing in the world that I'm doing right now and I am living my best life. Was there a moment where that happened to you?

Joel Zeff (01:06:30.032)
yeah, I think there's a lot of times where you are in an event and I've been very lucky to have some incredible events. The event last week, I think was very similar to what you're talking about. you know, 8 ,000 people, it's my biggest group I've ever spoken to. And I do this thing where I have the whole audience do to da. We talk about celebrating, you know, when you're a little kid and you go to da and you celebrate everything. And so I do that with the audience. That was the largest to da of my career. 8 ,000 people.

Paul Povolni (01:06:45.375)
Yeah.

Paul Povolni (01:06:51.775)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Paul Povolni (01:06:58.567)
Nice.

Joel Zeff (01:06:59.568)
Right. I do something called bunny, bunny, bunny, where I get where we talk about taking a risk and doing something silly. And I had the whole audience. And I remember this event last week, it's being translated in nine different languages. People are being translated and I'm doing it and I'm getting 8 ,000 people from 56 different countries to do this. my gosh. Amazing. I played this game called zigzag Zog where I say Zig, the audience says zag. If I say zag, the audience says Zog.

Paul Povolni (01:07:13.151)
Wow.

Paul Povolni (01:07:16.703)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Joel Zeff (01:07:28.944)
but they have to clap and you don't know whether you can do it any order. I'm playing that with 8 ,000 people. And I'm like, how did I get here? What am I doing? And when someone comes up to you from countries around the world and say, want to take your photo and says that, and they say how funny or entertaining you are.

Paul Povolni (01:07:35.391)
Wow.

Yeah. Yeah.

Joel Zeff (01:07:54.992)
you know, whether, you know, I'm in customs, this guy from Mexico wants to take my photo. you know, Japan, Indonesia, Philippines, you know, India, Cyprus. I've met somebody from Cyprus, Australia, UK, Ireland, you know, I'm just keep going all these countries. It is so inspiring and energizing that my humor translated all to all these different languages and all these different cultures and.

Paul Povolni (01:08:07.967)
Wow. Wow.

Paul Povolni (01:08:16.159)
Yeah.

Joel Zeff (01:08:23.728)
and made that connection. And it was just so inspiring. It kind of gives you hope, right? That we're all together. We all respect each other. We all want everybody to be successful. We're laughing together. We're creating energy together. This is amazing. I mean, it was pretty amazing. That was just last week, right? And I could say that to almost every event I could make.

Paul Povolni (01:08:25.695)
Right.

Paul Povolni (01:08:29.055)
Right, right.

Paul Povolni (01:08:44.319)
Yeah. Wow.

Joel Zeff (01:08:51.792)
you know, I could tell you about something that happened at a specific event that is so inspiring and energizing, you know, when people are playing and having fun, it's just incredible. And it just is so rewarding and fulfilling. And, and, you know, I always say that's that this was my purpose, right? And so I didn't choose this. Someone chose some other being Galactus boom, Marvel chose chose for me.

Paul Povolni (01:09:08.927)
Yeah.

Paul Povolni (01:09:15.647)
Ha ha ha ha ha!

Yeah, yeah.

Joel Zeff (01:09:19.664)
Right? The watcher. Boom. Another one. Big, big name. Said, this is what you're supposed to do. And it's pretty, pretty amazing. Pretty inspiring.

Paul Povolni (01:09:26.175)
Yeah, yeah.

Paul Povolni (01:09:30.367)
That's awesome. Well, and, and yeah, and being able to translate your humor into an international audience is quite a challenge and quite an achievement because not everything translates. I mean, you, you know, you did the bunny ears and people like, is that moose? Is that a deer? Is that a, you know, what is it?

Joel Zeff (01:09:46.924)
Here's what any language, any, any country, if you put your hand up like this, you cannot not smile. I don't care if you think you're a deer, a bunny, a moose, some animal I'm not aware of this, this translates and it is awesome. It is just so, so incredible. And, you know, like the zigzag Zog game. And I told, if you're being, you know, there's no translate.

Paul Povolni (01:09:55.775)
Yeah, exactly.

Paul Povolni (01:10:12.511)
Yeah.

Joel Zeff (01:10:16.432)
And like, if I say Zig, there's not a translated word for Zig. And so, and I told everybody, I said, you know, if you're being, if you're getting the translation, take it off. Cause I think you can play this game. If you hear Zig, once we start the game, take off your translation, you're Zig, you say zag. If I say zag, you say Zog. And so we're doing it together. This whole amazing audience. It was just so, it was absolutely one of the coolest moments of my career. And I've had a lot. I've been very fortunate.

Paul Povolni (01:10:19.807)
Yeah.

Paul Povolni (01:10:29.407)
Right.

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

Paul Povolni (01:10:44.255)
Yeah.

Joel Zeff (01:10:46.096)
that I've shared the stage with lots of cool celebrities and seen some amazing speakers. I mean, I can look on my phone and people that I've met are Olympians and astronauts and secretary, I did an event with Colin Powell, secretary of state and,

Paul Povolni (01:11:07.743)
Wow. Wow.

Joel Zeff (01:11:10.224)
and it's just incredible. It really is. It's just absolutely incredible, the people that you meet. And it's just, it's really energizing, really inspiring.

Paul Povolni (01:11:22.559)
Yeah, so tell me again about Tadah, what was Tadah about?

Joel Zeff (01:11:25.936)
So today, I start all my keynotes. We talk about when you're, you know, when the kids are small, everything's a today, right? You celebrate everything. Ta -da, right? You ate your whole lunch, ta -da. Or, you know, you did a little, you put your clothes away, ta -da. You know, and what happens, you celebrate with them and that builds their confidence and they do more, right? They do whatever you're celebrating, they do more of. And then, so these today moments, we all have them. And as we get older,

Paul Povolni (01:11:32.639)
Yeah. Yeah.

Hahaha.

Paul Povolni (01:11:45.055)
Right, right, right. Yeah.

Joel Zeff (01:11:53.712)
We still have to that moments, but we're not celebrating enough. And that fuels us, gives us confidence, gives us fuel for our passion, for what we want to do, what we want to accomplish. And so we're not celebrating these moments enough. We do great things every single day for our clients, for our partners, for our team. And those to that moments need to be celebrated. And so I talk about that and have the whole audience, we all stand up and we do ta -da, you know, and celebrate with each other.

And these are just. It fuels us. It creates this energy and that's how I start all my keynotes. That positive support and that energy and then we start talking about the different improv games and and and the different messages.

Paul Povolni (01:12:37.343)
Have you ever tried to die at home and your wife just shut it down?

Joel Zeff (01:12:40.656)
She shuts everything down.

Paul Povolni (01:12:42.675)
So as...

Joel Zeff (01:12:44.016)
She's way, yeah, yeah. There's an expiration date on all this. And all this expired a long time ago. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, actually, some time, a long time ago, she would like say some of my messages back to me. Like, you're not being very open and flexible to change. And I would have to say, these are just for work. These are not. These are not home. These are not.

Paul Povolni (01:12:48.191)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Look, cut it out. Yeah, yeah. Cut it out. Pick up your socks.

Paul Povolni (01:13:04.639)
Hahaha.

Paul Povolni (01:13:08.575)
Work rules. Yeah.

Joel Zeff (01:13:12.016)
It's for the home. I'm not a home expert. I'm a work culture expert. I have no expertise here. This is just, I don't know how anything works here.

Paul Povolni (01:13:17.023)
Yeah.

Paul Povolni (01:13:21.183)
You could have responded with, yes, and.

Joel Zeff (01:13:24.368)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't know how any of this works here. At work, these are the messages.

Paul Povolni (01:13:28.159)
Yeah. Yeah. So as we wrap this up, this has been amazing conversation. as we wrap this up, tell me a little bit about your book and the inspiration behind it. And, you know, I'll of course put a link in the show notes to this. And then, you know, if you want to grab the latest one, when it comes down in the fall, you can certainly do that as well. but tell me a little bit about the inspiration, behind writing the make the right choice book.

Joel Zeff (01:13:47.696)
Yeah, that'd be great.

Joel Zeff (01:13:53.04)
So I recommend this to everybody is to have the publisher call you and say, hey, I was doing research on somebody else came across your name, notice you didn't have a book, why don't you have a book? And I said, I was waiting for you to call me. That's how I recommend you write a book. And so that's what happened. And so I took my messages.

Paul Povolni (01:14:14.879)
Yeah.

Joel Zeff (01:14:21.52)
in what I was talking about and then, you know, kind of put it into the book and each chapter kind of broke down the keynote and in much greater detail and the messages in much greater detail and put a lot of different ideas that people can use at work with their teams and their groups. And then this year, at the beginning of the year, having discussions with the publisher, which is Wiley, largest business book publisher, and they said,

Excuse me. And I said, would you be interested in doing an expanded revised edition? And I thought, yeah, that sounds great. It didn't sound like a lot of work. And then we got into it and it is, it's a lot of work. And so they're like, yeah, we need 25 % new. And so I wrote five new chapters and then we went through the whole, I went through the whole book, revised. Once I got into each chapter, I rewrote a majority of each chapter, not just updating some of the references and some of the jokes.

Paul Povolni (01:14:55.679)
Yeah. Right. Right.

Joel Zeff (01:15:18.896)
But just adding again, as my presentation evolved, I started talking about different things. And so I kind of put some of that evolution into the book. You know, when we talk about communication or teamwork or leadership or change or opportunity. And so each chapter became a new chapter. And that's how the book and it's going to be out September, October. And it's, you know, just creating that.

fun and energy of the keynote and putting it into the book. So there's a lot of humor. I want it to be fun. I want people to be enjoyable. Let me, if I can't, there it is. I'm trying to get the new, this will be the first podcast. Can I show the camera? Can I show what the new?

Paul Povolni (01:15:53.759)
Right.

Paul Povolni (01:16:08.575)
You can, there will be a video version and there will be an audio version.

Joel Zeff (01:16:12.4)
This is what the new...

Paul Povolni (01:16:15.135)
Make the Right Choice. It's a orange looking cover with a big blue dot on it. So when you're going through the bookstore, when you're looking on Amazon, look for the orange book with the big blue dot. Make the Right Choice.

Joel Zeff (01:16:27.408)
Yeah. And we changed, we changed the, the new subhead is lead with passion, elevate your team and unleash the fun at work. that sounds good. That sounds really good. Yeah. That sounds good. And then it says fully revised and updated with the spirit of to duh. That's the little blue dot. Yeah. Yeah. So, very excited. Also, I just showed your whole podcast that I still have an iPhone seven that's that's cracked.

Paul Povolni (01:16:36.063)
Nice. That sounds amazing. I'll be getting that for sure. That is awesome.

Paul Povolni (01:16:45.343)
Nice. Nice.

Paul Povolni (01:16:54.299)
That's correct. It's got some miles on it.

Joel Zeff (01:16:56.656)
Yeah, that's cracked and yeah, I'm waiting for the 16.

Paul Povolni (01:17:02.303)
I'm sure it's going to be amazing. And so how do people get ahold of you if they want to get ahold of you, if they want to follow your journey, if they want to see some of your stuff, what's the best way to do that?

Joel Zeff (01:17:13.648)
A couple different ways. My website, JoelZeff.com and we, a new website, brand new website, will be launching hopefully next month. Better be next month. And so I have a new website launching next month and LinkedIn is a great way to connect with me. That's my number one social media. It's LinkedIn. So it's pretty easy to find me, JoelZeph. But also you can follow me on Facebook.

Paul Povolni (01:17:35.327)
Okay.

Joel Zeff (01:17:43.088)
And if I ever get through my to -do list, I'm gonna start an Instagram. I'm pretty excited about that. Yeah. Yeah, I'm gonna gram it. I'm gonna gram it as soon as I get a new phone.

Paul Povolni (01:17:46.375)
Nice, nice. It's what all the cool kids are doing. Yeah, there you go. Yeah, that one probably can't do a whole lot. It can't gram. Well, man, thank you so much for this. And I will put those links in the show notes. And when I post this on social media for people to connect with you, this has been amazing, Joel. Thank you so much.

Joel Zeff (01:17:57.188)
yeah pretty

Joel Zeff (01:18:09.744)
Paul, I loved it. It's been a great conversation. I hope your listeners and viewers enjoyed. We went off on a lot of tangents, but I had a great, there was harmonica playing. I told some good stories, I thought. I don't know if I've told the story about walking off stage with the, I don't know if I've told that story. And so I feel pretty good about it and good rehearsal, so I'm ready to do the real thing right now.

Paul Povolni (01:18:18.303)
Hahaha.

Paul Povolni (01:18:25.119)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Hahaha.

Paul Povolni (01:18:34.815)
Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, do you know what? I didn't even record that. So let me, well, we definitely did the improv thing. We did take quite a, quite a journey and there was a lot of yes, yes. And, okay. Okay. Or, so I think it was, I think it was a great conversation. Appreciate you being on and having them have an amazing day.

Joel Zeff (01:18:41.196)
Excellent.

Joel Zeff (01:18:47.184)
Yeah, we did. It was.

Joel Zeff (01:18:55.792)
Thank you, Paul. Appreciate it.