Jacob Cass / Brand Consultant. Blogger. Founder JUST Creative

Many business owners and entrepreneurs struggle to scale their operations, differentiate in crowded markets, and adapt to rapid technological and economic changes.

Imagine building a resilient, scalable business that stands out in the market, adapts quickly to changes, and provides long-term value and growth opportunities.

Stay tuned to discover how Jacob Cass transformed his freelance design skills into a global brand and 7-figure business. Learn strategies for evolving your business model, creating a standout brand identity, and building resilience in today's dynamic business environment.

Jacob Cass, founder of JUST Creative and brand strategy expert, takes us through his remarkable business evolution. From a solo graphic designer to a global brand consultant working with giants like Disney and Jerry Seinfeld, Jacob reveals how he built a multi-faceted, 7-figure enterprise. This episode is packed with actionable insights on creating resilient business models, developing strong brand identities, and pivoting strategies in the face of market disruptions.

5 Key Takeaways:

• The evolution from designer to brand strategist
• How to differentiate your brand in a competitive market
• The importance of understanding your audience
• Strategies for leveraging branding to drive business growth
• How to adapt and evolve your brand to stay relevant

Link: JUST Creative

Paul Povolni, the founder of Voppa Creative, has been a creative leader for over 30 years, with clients around the world. He’s led teams in creating award-winning branding and design as well as equipping his clients to lead with Clarity, Creativity and Culture.

Headsmack Website

Transcript

Paul Povolni (11:45.934)
Hey, welcome to the Head Smack podcast. My name is Paul Povolni. So excited to have you come along as I talk to another misfit. And I'm so excited to have Jacob Cass with me all the way from Sydney, Australia. Jacob, how you doing, man?

Jacob Cass, JUST Creative (11:58.107)
Thank you, Paul. I've never been called a misfit. I don't know how I feel about it. It's like.

Paul Povolni (12:01.39)
Well, let's find out how much of a misfit because I've enjoyed calling it conversations with misfits, but I found also that it's Mavericks and trailblazers and people that are standing out in their space and you stand out. Definitely. I've paid attention to the stuff that you're doing. You found a way to stand out in the marketplace, in a busy marketplace of business strategists and branding strategists. And so, yeah, I think you're a little bit of a misfit.

Jacob Cass, JUST Creative (12:28.699)
All right. I can align with, I can align with stand out. That's definitely very much aligned with our, even slogan of our brand. We use a flamingo that's definitely stands out, well stands the flock out. That's, that's.

Paul Povolni (12:35.662)
Yeah.

Well, and I want to talk about that journey to the flamingo, but I want to also talk about a little bit about your origin story. I'm a fan of superheroes and I love origin stories. And I like talking to folks and finding out what there is. Right now you're a brand strategist and an educator, produce a lot of content online and you have a lot of stuff available for folks as well. But let's talk about a little bit about Jacob Kass pre brand strategist.

like where did you get your start and you can go as early as you want. But what was early, early Jacob Cass life like?

Jacob Cass, JUST Creative (13:07.707)
Yes.

Jacob Cass, JUST Creative (13:13.947)
Well, I'll say zero to 16 was, I was definitely in the creative artie world. you know, I was always drawn to the, those sorts of subjects versus maths and science. So within my DNA, I was always a creative person. I believe that, just cause I naturally went that way. it was around when I was 16 or so, I was doing a lot of drawing and graphic design, terrible work. I could not draw stick figures and things like that, but.

Paul Povolni (13:39.306)
Yeah, and the same way.

Jacob Cass, JUST Creative (13:42.171)
I also dabbled in, you know, some using some versions of Photoshop, early versions of Photoshop around that time as well. And that's when I heard of graphic design, but I never really knew like what that was. I was just like mixing people's faces together and morphing face, my friends faces at school. I did a couple of, well, I did a logo for a death metal band, terrible. And then I got one of my mates there.

Paul Povolni (14:00.302)
Yeah, yeah.

Paul Povolni (14:06.51)
Hahahaha

Jacob Cass, JUST Creative (14:10.683)
I knew a little bit about web design and he kind of got me into that world as well. So it was around my teenage years when I fell into this design kind of world, but it was only when I saw my careers advisor that I realized that was actually a career and that you could take that path and go towards it. And that's what I did. That was like my first Ted Hitsmack moment. It's like, okay, this is it. I applied to uni.

Paul Povolni (14:34.958)
Yeah.

Jacob Cass, JUST Creative (14:40.795)
I got to, went to uni, went there for about three years and studied visual communication, majored in graphic design. So at my heart, I'm a creative and I'm classically trained in graphic design. So that's where my origin starts. And throughout that time studying, I started a blog and it was called Just Creative Design back then. It's now called Just Creative. And I use that as a place to share my work, my studies, my design work and.

That's, that was just like a side project. It was just a way for me to document my studies and to share with others through that process. I learned about blogging and blogging is, was very different to what it is today. It was very tight knit, very small communities. it was kind of like, you're definitely a nerd if you blogged, it was that kind of thing. So totally different world, but that was the second aha moment or head smack moment because it opened up, it opened up my eyes to.

Paul Povolni (15:19.662)
Yeah.

Paul Povolni (15:26.094)
Yeah.

Paul Povolni (15:33.134)
Yeah.

Jacob Cass, JUST Creative (15:36.699)
making money online through blogging and through websites. So there was a whole community around how to make money blogging. And through that, I learned SEO and a little bit more about web design as well. And it was through this process of studying graphic design, running a blog and sharing my work that it got the attention of an agency in New York City. So I was in Sydney at the time. I didn't have a job. They offered me a job.

Paul Povolni (15:40.078)
Yeah.

Paul Povolni (15:49.582)
Yeah.

Jacob Cass, JUST Creative (16:05.851)
through Twitter. So this is when Twitter was just starting. I was pretty big on Twitter at that time. I even got onto our local newspaper for being the top twit in our area.

Paul Povolni (16:09.326)
Yeah.

Paul Povolni (16:16.878)
Yeah, now what would you be called now the top X? We can talk about that brand maybe in a little bit.

Jacob Cass, JUST Creative (16:21.979)
Yeah, it doesn't have the same ring to it. Yeah. So yeah, it had Hugh Jackman and then me on the front page of this newspaper saying top twit. So that was, that was a highlight moment. Anyway, so this agency offered the job. I got headhunted. I left Sydney six months later after I graduated. They waited for me, which was nice. And I packed up. I didn't have anywhere to stay. The day before I left, I found somewhere on Craigslist and flew over to New York.

Paul Povolni (16:30.094)
nice, nice. You made it.

Jacob Cass, JUST Creative (16:51.547)
Not knowing anyone like or anything. So it was like a huge, huge leap of faith. I bloody loved it in New York. It was, you know, big learning curve. Didn't know anyone didn't know the culture. I spoke very fast. No one understood me back then. I've definitely slowed down. I wasn't allowed to talk to clients. So that was a whole yeah, bad in combination with us. Tell us you don't, but recently graduate. What was that? Sorry, boy.

Paul Povolni (16:52.782)
Wow.

Paul Povolni (16:57.934)
Yeah.

Paul Povolni (17:11.406)
really?

Just because of your accent?

Paul Povolni (17:20.142)
They didn't want you to talk to clients because of your accent. They just...

Jacob Cass, JUST Creative (17:23.259)
Yeah, they couldn't, they couldn't understand me. It was like, right now it's like, definitely have turned it down. Most of my clients in the U S and after living there, it's like, it's definitely turned down. So, yeah. So.

Paul Povolni (17:26.286)
Hahaha.

Paul Povolni (17:34.294)
Yeah. Well, now before you continue about the New York experience, I do want to circle back to a couple of things that you talked about. I find it fascinating that your early story is very similar to mine in that I couldn't really draw that well, you know, but I knew I was creative and I knew, you know, I love doodling. I mean, I could draw, but not like fantastic and like hands and faces were always a challenge, you know, and stuff like that.

Jacob Cass, JUST Creative (18:02.019)
Yes.

Paul Povolni (18:03.854)
And so, you know, for me, it was, you know, I didn't know what I wanted to do as a creative. Like, how am I going to make money doodling or being creative? Like what exists for somebody like me? Were you kind of at that place as well? Like, of what am I going to do with my life with this?

Jacob Cass, JUST Creative (18:22.939)
I wish I could say I was looking for that, but at that time I was really just in school and didn't really know what I wanted to do. And it was, it was just about exploration. I did know that I loved design. So all my focus was around like my subjects at school was like design and tech. And, you know, whenever I had a project, it would be like a digital project. So I knew it was something digital and I knew it was in design, but I didn't know how that worked as a career or like even the.

Paul Povolni (18:43.726)
Yeah.

Jacob Cass, JUST Creative (18:50.971)
the jobs available. I've never heard of things like creative directors or, you know, definitely not strategists. So it's, yeah.

Paul Povolni (18:54.703)
Right.

Paul Povolni (18:58.254)
So when did you become aware of design as a creative? Because as a young kid, like, you don't really think of it. OK.

Jacob Cass, JUST Creative (19:01.819)
Well, I was doing graphic design as a subject. Yeah, I was doing graphic design as a subject and design and tech as subjects, but they didn't really tell you, they didn't really mention that that's like a career or that, you know, you, you could do that for a living and they didn't really share that. So I, I wish that did happen earlier, but you know, my careers advisor, that's their job. And that's what they, you know, they asked, what, what are your interests? And it's like, did you know this? And it's like, aha, of course, of course. Yeah.

Paul Povolni (19:08.174)
Yeah.

Paul Povolni (19:15.982)
Yeah.

Paul Povolni (19:23.726)
Yeah.

Paul Povolni (19:27.65)
Yeah, for me it was very similar to that, but I'm a few years older than you. And so for me it was a very different world when I was coming up. And so for me as a creative kid, I couldn't draw. I loved creativity. And so I did wonder what... I didn't... The word design and graphic design, or it used to be called commercial art back in the day.

Jacob Cass, JUST Creative (19:53.307)
Mm -hmm. OK.

Paul Povolni (19:54.318)
I really didn't know what that meant and what that was all about. And so for me, it was a teacher that introduced me to design. And I'm like, I don't have to be able to draw. I can have use other people's drawings or I can use other people's, you know, imagery and photography and, and, but I can creatively bring it all together. And for me, that was a revelation. And so, you know, that's why I kind of wanted to see if you had a similar moment of that.

Jacob Cass, JUST Creative (20:07.803)
Yeah.

Jacob Cass, JUST Creative (20:18.523)
Yes.

Jacob Cass, JUST Creative (20:23.963)
I think it came a little bit later through in university of, you know, what I did and didn't like. So the art side, I really didn't enjoy. So we had to do art as one of the compulsory subjects as the degree. And I just really didn't like showing up for it, like getting hands on and doing, you know, just thinking outside the box a little bit in terms of like abstract and like different mediums. I just like, I knew that the physical world wasn't for me. So it.

At that moment, I knew that digital was, and that's where I focused and I loved brand. I found out that I loved typography and I loved web and digital. So it's no wonder that I kind of went in that direction and like became a UI UX designer. And yeah, it was just through that exploration by them, like forcing you to do certain things that you come to find what your passion is.

Paul Povolni (20:56.078)
Yeah.

Paul Povolni (21:10.222)
Yeah.

Paul Povolni (21:19.726)
Right, and it's amazing how sometimes the tool appears that brings it all together as well, you know, and it's like, you know, the Photoshop and I can, I don't like working with my hands. I don't like sketching with charcoals. I don't like figure drawing. I don't like that, but the tool kind of brought about the, this and me are meant to be together. They're the right match, yeah.

Jacob Cass, JUST Creative (21:46.235)
Totally. Yeah, totally. Yeah. And Paul, like I drew a lot, but it was mostly copying things. It was like, I'd have every single South Park character drawn on my wall and paste it up. But it was just really about, you know, copying and it was nothing original, but that kind of just evolved into design. And then yeah, Photoshop and Illustrator kind of just bubbled up through school and that time. And that's where I was dabbling.

Paul Povolni (21:56.558)
Yeah.

Jacob Cass, JUST Creative (22:14.299)
And did things on the side as a hobby, like creating logos and websites and that, that just evolved. my friend, yeah, was working in web web and he showed me some of the things behind the scenes of, you know, Dreamweaver and those tools. So it's like, yeah. And flash, like there's, there's some amazing websites built with flash back then that were just like mind boggling. yeah. So yeah, those are some of the tools that exposed me to the digital side of design.

Paul Povolni (22:28.014)
Yeah, yeah, Macromedia, yeah.

Paul Povolni (22:35.342)
Yeah? yeah.

Paul Povolni (22:43.502)
Yeah, and honestly, I think even the tools for me, I don't think I could have been a designer pre -computer. I don't think my ADD... Yeah, you wouldn't have a choice, but I think I was born in the right time because I entered the space just as computers were becoming a part of the space. I used QuarkXPress, freehand. I mean, that was my toolbox.

Jacob Cass, JUST Creative (22:53.211)
Well you wouldn't have a choice.

Jacob Cass, JUST Creative (23:05.259)
Yeah, I caught. Yep.

Paul Povolni (23:12.27)
And I, but I was in the transition time where people were still doing the bromide machines and the, the, the, I mean, I, and I thought I could not have done this side with that. And so, you know, I think the tools. Yeah. Rub down letters, man. Rub down letters. We had to do those. And, yeah, we had. Yeah, exactly. And so, so I, you know, it's, it's amazing how.

Jacob Cass, JUST Creative (23:24.539)
Yeah. Can you imagine like manually type setting each little like letter? Is this bonkers? Yeah, I wouldn't be a designer.

Paul Povolni (23:40.078)
You know, sometimes you could also just find your place by finding the tool that can be the catalyst for you generating the creativity and the expression that is within you, that it just works like that. And so, you know, you came at a time when that was evolving, and same with me, and so I think that's pretty amazing. And so, for you, you went to uni, got a job right out of uni,

Jacob Cass, JUST Creative (24:01.787)
Yeah, absolutely.

Paul Povolni (24:09.262)
after New York, what was that like? What was that entering right into the agency space?

Jacob Cass, JUST Creative (24:16.603)
It was a huge catapult. So I was, went from a design student to working for brands like Disney and like I had access to all of Disney's database and like those super high res files that you could like zoom in forever. just so crisp. And that was just like crazy. I was like, how, how is this real? Literally on the other side of the world now working for these huge brands. So it was like a dream come true, but it came crashing down very quickly, after about six months. So I lost the job.

Paul Povolni (24:28.366)
Hehehe.

Jacob Cass, JUST Creative (24:44.635)
and had to leave the country within two weeks. So I had a, I actually found a job within those two weeks, but you had to submit paperwork and they submitted wrong twice, which meant I had to leave. So I had to go home to Australia and I figured I saw a lawyer and figured out some other options because I wanted to get back and I want to find a different job, but I couldn't cause you know, when you don't have a sponsor.

Paul Povolni (24:58.638)
Yeah, yeah.

Jacob Cass, JUST Creative (25:11.643)
to get back in the country. You can't go over there unless you go as a tourist, but then you can't get work. Anyway, I saw a lawyer. I found out that I just happened to qualify for this certain visa that's for recent graduates within one year. So I went on this one visa, went back to New York and went through about four different startups and agencies to find the right one. And then I found one and stayed with them for another four years. So I was in New York for about five years.

Paul Povolni (25:16.494)
Right, right.

Jacob Cass, JUST Creative (25:41.211)
really cut my teeth into the industry, ad agency world. I worked as a UI UX designer for lots of different brands. I've made a lot of websites for Nintendo, a lot of gaming websites. And yeah, so that was a really fun side of things. And Jerry Seinfeld was another big project. I worked with his show, comedies and cars getting coffee. So working on the branding for that and their website and even created a custom typeface. So throughout that time, I was also,

Paul Povolni (25:52.334)
wow.

Paul Povolni (26:02.094)
Yeah, yeah.

Jacob Cass, JUST Creative (26:10.747)
running Just Creative. So I should have mentioned this before. I was working at an ad agency in the digital sector, but at the same time, I was continuing to blog and also run my design business or freelance design business on the side. So I was definitely burning the candle at both ends. I was much younger back then, working hard, playing hard in New York. It was good fun. Yes, exactly. Late nights, late mornings, everything.

Paul Povolni (26:24.942)
Yeah.

Paul Povolni (26:29.314)
Right, you can do those late nights.

Jacob Cass, JUST Creative (26:39.323)
And yeah, the point point of that is that I was building up the business and it was, it was a slow growth for my business. You know, I'd started in 2007. I still run it today, but it was over that time that I, learned the industry, but built up my client base, built up my skillset, built up my portfolio. And that's when I left New York. There's, there's an ultimatum around, well, do I go home and renew my visa for two years? This was after five years, or do I go traveling?

Paul Povolni (27:09.166)
Yeah.

Jacob Cass, JUST Creative (27:09.339)
I was a huge traveler. Like I love travel. I was always traveling every, every moment I had, spare moment I had, I was traveling. So I left New York, didn't renew the visa. the plan was to travel for a year around Europe and a few other places that year turned into three years. we went to about 88 countries, did the digital nomad thing. It was crazy. It was crazy. Yes, I did the bottom about 25 states, like the Southern States didn't get to the North.

Paul Povolni (27:25.23)
wow.

Paul Povolni (27:28.974)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Now, did you travel around the United States? Okay.

Jacob Cass, JUST Creative (27:39.291)
too much. Did a LA to New York kind of road trip, so it was a huge, big one. Yes.

Paul Povolni (27:44.047)
Yeah, nice. And so this whole time, you're still running Just Creative. Now, with the blog, had the content changed, or was the blog still pretty much the same kind of content?

Jacob Cass, JUST Creative (27:55.899)
It definitely changed. So early years was student work and my process. Throughout that time, it was definitely sharing my work and portfolio, but also other types of articles. Creativity, running a business, logo design was a huge focus of mine. That was my kind of niche. And that's how I managed to travel. I had a great system, heavily SEO, search optimized websites. I had a lot of traffic coming in.

The games changed a lot now, but, yeah, I didn't even get on phone calls for three, three years. Everything was through email, and briefs. So it was, yeah, it was great. And I worked four hours a day. That was our system four hours in the morning and then did the travel stuff in the afternoon. So it was, yeah, it was a really great system. And yeah, it was, it literally was. So I read the four hour work week by, Tim Ferriss and that was like,

Paul Povolni (28:25.326)
Yeah. Yeah.

Paul Povolni (28:32.046)
Wow.

Paul Povolni (28:42.19)
Yeah. The true digital nomad lifestyle. Yeah. Yeah.

Jacob Cass, JUST Creative (28:52.251)
another like head smack moment. I was like, this is, this is what I'm going to do. It wasn't four hours a week, but it was four hours a day. So nearly got there.

Paul Povolni (28:55.822)
Yeah.

Yeah, yeah. You had the four in there. So that was pretty good. That's more than most people would do. And so what's interesting about designers, and I think now maybe it's a little less than maybe it was in the past, the transition from being a designer to strategy. And I know you spend a lot of time in strategy now and you have resources around it and everything. I'd love to share that at the end of how people can get some of that.

Jacob Cass, JUST Creative (29:01.563)
Yeah.

Paul Povolni (29:28.448)
but when, when did that transition happen for you that went from simply designer to, to focusing on strategy as well? Was that always a part of how you did stuff? Cause I think, I think, you know, it used to be that we used to do brand strategy, but we didn't really label it brand strategy. It was kind of part of marketing, part of what we did, but we never made it a line item. when did that transition happen for you?

Jacob Cass, JUST Creative (29:55.099)
Yeah.

Yeah, so I'll explain how I did do things and how it evolved. So throughout that travel time, I had a questionnaire on the site and I focused mainly on logos and a little bit of identity, maybe the visual identity, not the whole brand identity. And it's, yeah, it was questionnaires and it was basically you got the client to fill in the data. So there was no real research or...

thinking going into it. It's like, hey, who's your target audience? What, what personality should this evoke? Who are your competitors? And you'd use that data set and go and create the logo or visual identity. So that's how I did things. I didn't even get on a call. So terrible, terrible idea. I was like, in hindsight, they're so, so bad. And I lost probably lost so much business because of that, like extended business. But

Paul Povolni (30:49.358)
Yeah, but a lot of people still do that. That's actually the interesting thing is that for a lot of immature or novice or new designers, that's pretty much their process still. And so I love that you're sharing that. And so continue it with how that evolved.

Jacob Cass, JUST Creative (30:53.275)
Hmm, yes.

Jacob Cass, JUST Creative (31:05.805)
Yeah. Yep. So that, that is, and I'll touch on that too. So went from the questionnaire to then learning about sales and business and talking to customers and asking them a lot of questions to get to the root cause of what they're trying to do. Why do you need a logo? What are you, who you're trying to target? What makes you different? You know, how are we going to position our brand? How, what's our message? What's our story? What, what are we trying to evoke here? And.

those sorts of questions, when you, when you talk to them, you realize that most clients don't necessarily always know those answers. And that's when, you know, something clicked. It was like, well, I need to help them with this. And then this idea of brand strategy came along, which I don't know when it was maybe 2019 or 18. It started getting a little bit more popular, at least on online. And I transitioned from doing maybe logo logo and I.

Paul Povolni (31:46.83)
Yeah.

Jacob Cass, JUST Creative (32:02.843)
visual identity work to more brand identity. So get a little bit deeper into the message and the storytelling and the personality and the voice of the brand. And then a little bit later, I went deep dove into brand strategy. I took like 1000 different courses and I loved it. And I was like, I thought I knew brand, but I didn't know shit. I was like,

Paul Povolni (32:24.526)
Yeah. Yeah.

Jacob Cass, JUST Creative (32:26.811)
I was just scratching the surface on, on doing logos and identity, which I loved. I loved. And that was my true passion, which was fine for the time. But then, eventually you grow out of it. It's like, well, am I going to keep doing this forever? Like, how can I provide more value? How can I up my rates? How can I get to the next level? And brand strategy was the way. And I was excited about that. I just talked to so many different people, learned the ropes and yeah. I, I love the cross section of.

Paul Povolni (32:32.27)
Right.

Paul Povolni (32:45.518)
Yeah.

Jacob Cass, JUST Creative (32:55.035)
business marketing, design and problem solving and this wide set of skills that you have to have to help businesses thrive. And that's my approach now. It's I get on the phone. I have hour long conversations with my clients to understand their business, who their customers, you know, the category, how we should actually position them. You know, what are we trying to, what message are we trying to send? So those are the conversations I have now, much deeper, much longer processes, much more value and.

great success.

Paul Povolni (33:26.254)
Yeah, and for the person that fully doesn't understand what brand strategy is in their mind, you're talking about marketing, right? Well, it's no, no, no. It's actually different. So how do you, if somebody isn't sure why they need brand strategy, they think they're doing brand strategy, but they're probably doing marketing. How would you separate the two and how would you explain it to the client?

Jacob Cass, JUST Creative (33:48.091)
Yeah. Yeah. Most often clients they'll, they'll come in saying, I need a logo or I need a website. And it's like, they're going through a checklist of things they need. But when you ask them certain questions about the three, the things I just mentioned, like their customer or the category, or, you know, even their company, like deeper questions around their company, often they, they draw a blank and then you ask, well, why should a customer choose you? You know, there's so many other options out there and it's like just blank.

Paul Povolni (34:10.062)
Yeah.

Jacob Cass, JUST Creative (34:18.171)
So that's the thought, okay, well, you need some strategy here. Like, what are we, how are we going to create a logo or website? And we don't know these things. And then it clicks. So you don't actually have to just say we're doing strategy. It's like you, you ask questions and they come to that realization themselves. And that's how the whole sales process works. Really. It's like, well, if you ask the right questions, they identify the problem and then you can put a solution in front of them. It's like, well, you're here now and you want to get over here. This is what we have to do.

Paul Povolni (34:20.75)
Yeah.

Paul Povolni (34:46.894)
Yeah.

Jacob Cass, JUST Creative (34:47.195)
You know, and they get it, but you're not selling, you're helping them get them from A to B. And that's how I see it. That's how I think about brand strategy.

Paul Povolni (34:52.494)
Yeah.

Paul Povolni (34:57.006)
Yeah, and so when they come to you and you've had that conversation, do they ever ask you, well, how is doing brand strategy or how is doing design going to make me money? Like, why should I care about it? Do they ever ask you to pitch them or sell them on the value?

Jacob Cass, JUST Creative (35:16.219)
Well, I'll ask the question, what's the cost of not doing this? Yeah. So let's say we don't know all of those things. What's that going to cost you? How many lost customers are you going to have over the next XGS? And then they're like, OK, I get it. It's simple. It's simple.

Paul Povolni (35:34.382)
Yeah.

Yeah, and so with the designer that is, you know, they're just starting off, they realize they're creative, they realize that branding and design and doing all that is important. How would you encourage them to grow as a designer to get into a space where they provide more value for their customers?

Jacob Cass, JUST Creative (35:59.579)
Yeah. You don't have to be a brand strategist, but you can become more strategic. And by that, I mean, you can understand how those mechanics work, you know, how brand strategy works, but you don't have to go into as much detail as a brand strategist. So I mentioned before about that questionnaire around, you know, asking questions around the personality and, you know, what they want to evoke and their, their client, their customers and their competitors.

You can get that data, but you can do some of your own research and come up with strategic ideas of your own and run it by them without these vast, you know, frameworks and depth that strategists go into. So I do want to make that clear. You're like, don't be, you know, burdened by this idea of becoming a strategist. You can do design and you can do a little bit of strategy to help inform your design process. And I do both. I do strategy to design, to growth and, you know, marketing.

Paul Povolni (36:39.598)
Yeah.

Jacob Cass, JUST Creative (36:55.355)
and everything in between. So yeah, don't be intimidated by it, but you will definitely become a better designer by knowing those things. And your job will become easier because you'll have less revisions and you'll have less back and forth with the client because A, you have a very strong brief and you know what you're working towards and it's based on some strategic thinking and some insights. It's going to make your designs better and less work on yourself.

You could even do, you know, move into one's concept presentations as well, which is another discussion. So.

Paul Povolni (37:30.35)
Yeah, so let's talk about that.

Jacob Cass, JUST Creative (37:34.011)
Yeah. So one concept, the one concept approach, you know, often, you know, earlier in my career, I'd send like 10 logos as, you know, here's a couple of different type directions and here's a couple of logos. Like, yeah, I picked the best. I was like, that's terrible. Like you're, you're the expert here. You're meant to be suggesting on what is right. If you have a strong strategic direction in the beginning that you're aligned with. Now you have a very strong direction to go after what attributes should this identity.

Paul Povolni (37:42.326)
Yeah.

Jacob Cass, JUST Creative (38:02.747)
What are we trying to, what message are we trying to send here? And if you have that in writing and you agreed upon that, and it's based on some insights, then your work is going to be much more dialed in. So when you present, you can share your thinking, your larger mission, the vision, the values, what is our position? How does that translate to design? So how are we bridging the gap between strategy and design? So the one concept approach, you share your thinking.

based on insights with them and conversations and maybe some workshops, you share your thinking and share how it translates from strategy to design. How is it evoking this attribute? And how does that work with the logo? Why this typeface? Why this art direction? Why this illustration style? And you talk through your design decisions and how they relate back to the strategy.

And it's that explanation and how it works altogether as a cohesive identity and brand. That's really how you do the wine concept approach. You share one logo, you share it with mockups, you share the whole identity and how it relates back to the brief, which basically talks to the customer. It's sending the right message that you agreed upon and so forth. So you will often, if you've done your job right, you know, you'll get approval.

Paul Povolni (39:26.414)
Yeah.

Jacob Cass, JUST Creative (39:26.523)
And there's low revisions after that because you've thoroughly thought about the brand holistically, not just the logo, which they will probably rub a stamp everywhere if you just showed a logo. So the logo is not the brand, the clients love it, but you have to think about the brand holistically. So that's the one concept approach. And I don't do that every time. I definitely explore a lot of logos if I'm doing logo work and...

Paul Povolni (39:29.646)
Yeah.

Paul Povolni (39:37.166)
Yeah.

Paul Povolni (39:44.014)
Yeah.

Jacob Cass, JUST Creative (39:52.763)
I'll share a couple of different options. I use a, a framework called soft hard spiky. Actually here's a, you know, another word would be a square in a circle square or hexagon. There's different words for this, but the idea is that soft is like, you know, soft is a circle is rounded. It could be a more, you know, in a comfortable approach. Square is a little bit more hard edged and it's, you know, a little bit more off kilter. And then spiky is definitely.

weird and wacky, it's the least safe option, but it's the most different, right? So if you have a safe, a middle ground and an extreme option, then you're going to, you're going to cover the gun. And you can actually, it's actually good for your process because it helps you think in different ways. Like what if this was a generic brand that kind of fit in with everything? What if this was the craziest? Like I was going to say mother f****g brand. There is.

Paul Povolni (40:23.182)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Paul Povolni (40:47.182)
Yeah.

Jacob Cass, JUST Creative (40:51.707)
I'm not sure if we can spare on here, but yeah, the idea is that, yeah, you can explore different options, extreme to safe.

Paul Povolni (40:53.518)
Yeah, yeah.

Paul Povolni (40:58.766)
Yeah, I love that. I love that. And when I worked in the agency world, I worked for a company called Mad Genius, and we'd do that. We'd have different options, and the final one was called the Mad Option. If we were to really push and take this in a direction that we wanted to go in and just push the idea really out there, this is what it would look like. And we'd always offer a Mad Option. And a lot of times, the client would actually choose it, because we kind of

Jacob Cass, JUST Creative (41:10.651)
Yes, okay.

Paul Povolni (41:28.398)
broke out of the box of where their mind was. And we just created a new playground. And suddenly, that became, absolutely love that. So I love both the single concept solution and I love also that three with the round square spike. I love that. Absolutely awesome. And so one of the things that you mentioned, and this now goes to the client side of questions, you said a logo is not a brand. So.

What is a brand?

Jacob Cass, JUST Creative (42:00.091)
What is a brand? So there's many different, there's many different definitions and I run a podcast called just branding, which is just focus on branding. Everyone that we have on the show, we asked this question, like, what's your definition of brand? And I've heard a lot of definitions for me, probably because I hear it every single time we talk about it on that podcast, my co -host Matt Davies talks about it as the management of meaning.

Paul Povolni (42:01.262)
Yeah.

Paul Povolni (42:13.038)
Yeah. Yeah.

Paul Povolni (42:20.046)
Hehehehe

Jacob Cass, JUST Creative (42:25.211)
And I align with that. I also align with Martin Neumeyer's definition around it being a gut feeling that someone has about your brand or product or service. Basically, it's you don't own your brand, but the customer does. It's formed in their mind based on all the experiences. It's the reputation of the brand as well. Jeff Bezos says it's, you know, it's what people say when you're not in the room. And those are a few different definitions, but it could also be about the perception.

Paul Povolni (42:25.87)
Okay.

Paul Povolni (42:38.254)
Yeah.

Jacob Cass, JUST Creative (42:53.051)
of your brand or product or service, you want to craft that perception. And that's what branding is about. You have to meaningly, meaningly, you have to create that meaning and create that perception. And that's through that's done through the process of branding.

Paul Povolni (42:57.006)
Yeah. Yeah.

Paul Povolni (43:02.99)
Yeah.

Paul Povolni (43:08.686)
Yeah, yeah, and I'm gonna say, well, I've heard so many different definitions and I've wrestled with my version as well of what it might be. And it is definitely reputation. For me, your brand is what people think and feel about what you say and do. That's essentially it, is what they think or feel about what you say and do. And branding is everything you say and do. I mean, pretty much it is.

Jacob Cass, JUST Creative (43:35.323)
Yeah, or not to.

Paul Povolni (43:37.55)
Because yeah in today's culture and in the exposure that we can get It's pretty much everything you say and do it's from their experience with on the telephone on your website When they walk through the door when they drive into your parking lot, you know how you smell how you look I mean, it's everything you say and do is branding in today's culture. And so You know people need to be mindful of that when it comes to your brand So when they say I have a brand, what do you have? I have a logo

Jacob Cass, JUST Creative (43:56.443)
everything.

Paul Povolni (44:07.214)
You know, it's like you don't have, you have maybe a segment of branding, but you don't have a brand yet. And so, you know, I love, I love what you do and the stuff that you're sharing is super valuable. So how is your brand involved?

Jacob Cass, JUST Creative (44:24.731)
How is my brand involved? What do you mean by that?

Paul Povolni (44:26.318)
from just being just creative to where it's at now, like, you know, evolved, yeah.

Jacob Cass, JUST Creative (44:29.371)
Did you say evolved? Is that what you said? evolved. Okay. All right. How's it evolved? So originally it was called just creative design. I asked the design part and a couple of years later, bought the domain. I, and that's how it evolved, but I've, I kind of mentioned this before. It went from like a logo design agency to a visual identity agency to a brand identity focused design agency. And then more recently,

Moving into brand strategy, identity, design, marketing, a few websites and so forth. I should mention that a lot of that time I was doing web design work. So in New York, I was a UX, UI designer. So I was heavily involved in interactive design and digital products, but I still did a lot of branding projects on with my business. So that's how it's evolved. We haven't really talked about the other arm of my business, which was the blog. That was a.

has been a huge part of my brand and business for many years has been the backbone of our business through getting clients and affiliate revenue that we grew that into a seven figure business back a few years ago. And that came crashing down as another head smack moment, which we can talk about. And that was, yeah. So it's just creative has a few arms. It's a brand design agency. It is a community. It is a platform that.

Paul Povolni (45:44.814)
Yeah, absolutely.

Jacob Cass, JUST Creative (45:55.067)
helps other creatives and entrepreneurs grow their brands. So there's a brand in podcasts attached to it. There is a, did I say community? Yeah, there's a ton of resources on there, but yeah, it's basically split into two sections. One, the blog, which is focused for designers and creatives and techies. And then my brand design agency, which is more focused on entrepreneurs and business owners. So I serve two audiences, creatives and entrepreneurs.

Sometimes I cross over, but that's how that's my target audience. And I don't think that's necessarily changed over the years. It's been both a blessing and a curse because I have two audiences, but it's allowed me to have my hand in different pies and do different things. And I love variety and that's, that's my rant. So I'll show you where you want to take that.

Paul Povolni (46:25.838)
Yeah.

Paul Povolni (46:35.246)
Yeah.

Paul Povolni (46:43.15)
Yeah, yeah. Well, you talked about the crash. So let's talk about that. And then I do have another follow -up question of doing your own branding is the toughest thing. And so I want to hear about how you evolved, even your branding and your visuals and all that. But let's talk about the crash that happened. What was that about?

Jacob Cass, JUST Creative (47:05.179)
Yeah. Before I talk about the crash, I'll talk about the rise because what it is. So the blog, Just Creative is it's a blog for designers and creatives. And back in around 2018, I started making some money through Amazon affiliates marketing. I dabbled in a little bit. Like I registered my Amazon affiliate account like 2012, but for like, I don't know, eight years, it was like earning cents. So I didn't really know much about affiliate marketing, but.

Paul Povolni (47:31.086)
Yeah, yeah.

Jacob Cass, JUST Creative (47:34.331)
I eventually had a few posts on our site get a lot of traction through search. And I was like, well, how is this post making, you know, hundreds of dollars? Why is this? And I kind of researched and learned some of the keywords and what was making that particular post rank well and convert well. And by reverse engineering that post, we, I scaled up.

And I, okay, well, I'm going to hire a few writers to write similar posts and see how it works out. And it worked out. And I just, it, I kept doing it from 2018 to 2020, a bunch of different writers, maybe four writers and kept doing it. And then in 2020 to 22, I scaled out to about 10 people around, around the world. And we're pumping out at the peak, probably like 20, 20 articles a week. So it was a lot of content.

Paul Povolni (48:24.046)
Well...

Jacob Cass, JUST Creative (48:31.483)
And whatever we posted, like 70 % of it would convert and rank well. So we had like, we had a lot of clout with Google cause we have a lot of links back to our site because we had been around since 2007. So naturally our site was ranking really well. So yes, still serving the creative community. So what affiliate marketing is just, I didn't mention this is if you share a link, someone clicks on the link and buy something, I get a cut of that. So.

Paul Povolni (48:43.63)
Yeah.

And this was still serving the creative community, right?

Jacob Cass, JUST Creative (49:00.251)
I had a post, let's say best laptops for designers. Someone comes to my page, clicks on the best laptop that we recommend for, let's say travel. They go to Amazon and buy it. I'll get like a commission, maybe like 50 bucks from a $3 ,000 laptop. So the interesting thing about Amazon is if you click a link through Amazon and they buy the laptop, but then they go and buy a diamond ring in the same purchase, you're gonna get a commission on that whole cart. So you're doing this at scale.

Paul Povolni (49:27.438)
Yeah.

Jacob Cass, JUST Creative (49:29.243)
You can actually, you can actually get quite a good commission from, Amazon. So we did this at scale. We had hundreds, maybe thousands of articles, all different tech related articles. And it went really well. We branched out into tech. We went into fonts. We went into like procreate resources, everything for designers and creators and things were ranking well. And we grew to like a million page views a month. And that was our, our peak over about two years. We went from 200 ,000 a month.

Paul Povolni (49:54.67)
Wow. Wow.

Jacob Cass, JUST Creative (49:59.003)
which is pretty good. and then two years later, like a million a month. And that didn't last too long. Google changed the algorithm. So everything came back the other way. Yeah. And it was a slow, it was, it was a fast and slow burn. So it's like, man, we'd lost, you know, half our visitors and we're like, that was bad. And then three months later, they bring out another update. we've lost a half again. And then six months later, they bring out another update and then just.

Paul Povolni (50:06.73)
Google. Yeah.

Paul Povolni (50:25.038)
my goodness, wow.

Jacob Cass, JUST Creative (50:28.795)
slowly weeding out publishers like our site from search results. And I get the reasons why there's definitely debate around is it for the better for the user? They're prioritizing ad revenue and certain big publishers instead of smaller publishers. We won't get into that, but the point is there's a huge rise. We've grown so well. We went up, we got to a seven figure.

figure we were going on that path. And then it came crashing down very quickly. I had to cut back the team and everything. And, you know, the head smack moment here is that nothing's forever. You know, I was heavily into search for so many years. It was the backbone of our business and, you know, nothing is, is forever. We still rank for certain phrases, but none of the, you know, affiliate posts are anywhere near what they were. So I've had to re -

rethink, repivot our strategy because I had this passive income coming in, which meant I could be pretty flexible with what I worked on and I didn't have to like, I could do client work, I could do creative work, I could do side projects and I didn't have to worry too much about the finances and all of that because of that layer. But yeah, things change.

Paul Povolni (51:47.79)
Yeah, so it was called passive income, but it was kind of a primary income. Like it was your, you know, yeah, yeah.

Jacob Cass, JUST Creative (51:52.699)
It definitely turned into a primary income. It's scaled past that. And that's why I focus on it. I loved, I didn't know this, but like when things are working, you dive into the data and I just loved working with data. So I went from like being doing somewhat design to working on like keywords and data diving and analytics and optimization and, you know, plugins and speed and all like backend stuff. So it was like, it was a needed shift for me because I've been doing blogging.

for so long, but it was, yeah, it was just, it worked. So we doubled down on it, I guess, and then it didn't work, and then we'd move on. So that's how things work.

Paul Povolni (52:30.446)
Yeah.

Yeah, what would you have done differently? What would you have done differently? What would you advise somebody else? Yeah.

Jacob Cass, JUST Creative (52:37.147)
I can't take like, we can't change it. So the, the algorithm is the algorithm and you can try beat it. you can try reverse engineer it and that's what we did. And it worked for a while. Now it's getting increasingly more difficult and more competitive, not just from other websites, but Google itself pushes, pushes their own products. you know, the search result, like the shopping results and then, you know, the ads, you know, the

Like even if you're number one, you're not really number one, you're like five. So the chance of you being clicked, and then they have snippets and rich snippets, like you're just, the results are getting worse and worse. And soon they're going to bring in SGE, which is search generative experience, basically AI results within Google. And that's even going to push everything further down the page. So things are definitely shifting.

Paul Povolni (53:09.742)
Yeah, yeah.

Paul Povolni (53:14.862)
Right.

Paul Povolni (53:25.038)
Right.

Paul Povolni (53:29.166)
Well, and I'm thinking more about your business model. Like, well, you know, if you look back at the way your business model was at that point, for somebody else that might be in a similar type of place is what would you have done differently that the crash would not have been as hard for you?

Jacob Cass, JUST Creative (53:45.819)
Well, the crash only really affected the blog inside of it, but also it was my way of getting clients at that time. So a lot of my traffic for my eight, so a lot of my leads for my agency came through search. It was, I had a lot of articles on things like logo design or identity design strategy and so forth. And people would find it through that way, but.

How the update happened was that Google classifies your whole search as helpful or not helpful in a nutshell. And because of all those other articles, our regular rankings for other terms like brand strategy or design also went down. So we couldn't really control that. We're going through a major prune of articles and trying to re -optimize things and yada yada. But the point is the business model

doesn't necessarily change. Like I still have the blog and I still have the agency. What does change is how I go about marketing. What's the strategy for getting, what are the tactics we're going to use to get clients in the door leads and where are we focusing? Before I used to be able to run a community, do design, run a side project, run a team of 10 and all of that at once. But now, of course I have to actively market. I have less time because before I was passive, I had everything.

Paul Povolni (55:07.278)
Yeah.

Jacob Cass, JUST Creative (55:09.179)
organically coming in organically is no cold outreach or anything like that. No marketing. So yeah, the model hasn't changed, but how I market changed and that affects the time as well. So those are the things that have kind of shifted in recent years.

Paul Povolni (55:24.27)
Yeah, yeah. And so that was the reset after the crash, right, is looking at how are leads coming in now, how are we going to pivot, how are we going to make sure that we have things coming in that is maybe not even leaning into one source as much as you did into the blogs as maybe you were before the crashes. You were heavily leaning into that.

started off as passive became primary in generating income as well as generating leads. And now you've diversified that into other ways instead of leaning into one direction, right?

Jacob Cass, JUST Creative (56:03.579)
Yeah. I've always diversified. So I have digital products around, like we have a typeface, we have downloads, we have the agency work, we have a community. So, and we have lots of different social profiles. So my eggs were definitely scattered in different baskets. So that's why I've been able to adapt. But the, yeah, it's the marketing side that has really been affected. So changing up where.

Paul Povolni (56:23.054)
Yeah.

Jacob Cass, JUST Creative (56:31.355)
rather than search, I went more into LinkedIn, for example, this year and focused there and that worked. And I also reworked on my branding when it was a bit of a quieter period, like Christmas jam, it's like naturally quieter. So I reworked my brand and refreshed it, launched that, got the attention of a few people on LinkedIn and I got a few clients from that. So it was just like this kind of ebb and flow of, you know, how...

Paul Povolni (56:36.686)
Yeah.

Paul Povolni (56:55.342)
Yeah.

Jacob Cass, JUST Creative (56:59.515)
Lifestyle has created and designed us. I'm sure everyone has been familiar with.

Paul Povolni (57:02.35)
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, and so with your own brand, with your own visuals, you know, you said you did a rebrand. What was that like? What did you, where were you and what did you either add, take away or augment or make better?

Jacob Cass, JUST Creative (57:19.483)
Yeah, I wouldn't go as far as saying rebrand. It was more of a refreshed identity. So what I mean by that is we updated some of the typefaces to be bigger, bolder. We added two new typefaces and we doubled down on this Flamingo idea. And yeah, so pink has always been a part of our brand since 2007. It's definitely stood out in the marketplace, especially back then. There was no other.

Paul Povolni (57:38.286)
And where did that come from?

Jacob Cass, JUST Creative (57:48.571)
especially male graphic designer in the creative digital space using pink. So it stood out, white and pink. The Flamingo idea came probably about five years ago. I did a pro bono project for my mate's gym and they had this huge mural on the wall of a lion. So for me, the project was creating different slogans and messaging for their gym to go around the walls and the theme. So there was like the Dan and there was like,

Paul Povolni (57:53.262)
Right.

Jacob Cass, JUST Creative (58:18.459)
core marks and there was, you know, be fearless, be courageous, never give up kind of stuff, like positive messaging. And they had this theme and I was like, man, Just Creative does not have a theme like that. And it has got no legs in terms of like, you know, theme like that. And I was like, well, what mascot or animal would represent our brand? And obviously the flamingo came up, not just because it's pink, which works perfectly, but...

Paul Povolni (58:19.566)
Right, yeah.

Paul Povolni (58:28.238)
Yeah.

Paul Povolni (58:33.71)
Yeah.

Paul Povolni (58:46.926)
Right.

Jacob Cass, JUST Creative (58:47.227)
You know, they're bold, they're creative, they stand the flock out and they represent our brand spirit and of creativity and joy and it just works so perfectly. So I shared this idea of the flamingo and I created a poster, a Pantone pink poster of a flamingo and I hung it up in my wall. And then I shared it on the socials and it got the attention of a lot of other people. And whenever I was dabbling with a new...

project of just like experimenting with like AI or anything. I often just use a flamingo, because that's what I did. And I shared that. And then I started getting gifts of like flamingo related things, or people taking photos of like, this reminded me of you. So I've got like undies and socks and shirts and like figurines and like gin or flamingo related. And it's definitely, it's ingrained in people's heads. Like I get so many photos of like, this reminded of you, when I saw the flamingo. So it worked really fucking well.

Paul Povolni (59:21.902)
Yeah.

Paul Povolni (59:32.462)
Yeah. Nice.

Yeah.

Jacob Cass, JUST Creative (59:44.571)
That's the point. So I'm like, how do we double down on this idea? And I wanted to create a mascot that we could use, you know, in our marketing material. And I had to, had to find something that worked, but I went through like using stock. I tried more recently AI, then I hired someone on Fiverr and they're all okay. But I'm like, I don't want to really bring this up a notch. And I was just throughout this process, I was sharing this flamingo and this idea, and then someone slid into my DMs. It was like,

Paul Povolni (59:44.75)
Yeah, yeah.

Paul Povolni (01:00:01.006)
Yeah.

Jacob Cass, JUST Creative (01:00:13.243)
we do 3D mascot design, let's have a chat. And I was like, this, let's see where this goes. And then I got talking to them. I shared my vision and we created this animated mascot called Pinky. And we've just nearly finished it now. And it looks really awesome. It's this like low poly style, kind of sleek digital looking flamingo. And it now animates. We have this animation of it opening its wings, which tie in with our slogan of dare to flare.

Paul Povolni (01:00:18.638)
Yeah.

Paul Povolni (01:00:29.838)
Yeah.

Paul Povolni (01:00:42.382)
Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Jacob Cass, JUST Creative (01:00:42.459)
And he's got sunglasses on. So he's got this cool attitude and yeah, it's, it's really resonating with people. And we have a few tag lines that go along with it, like stand the flock out, dare to flare, flock ordinary and those sorts of things. So it has a lot of legs, not just cause they're flamingo legs, but the idea. Yeah. Yeah. The idea is there and that sort of theme is what I was looking for. And we found it and it's resonated really, really well. And also natural progression.

Paul Povolni (01:00:57.102)
Yeah, right, right. And I bend backwards, yeah.

Paul Povolni (01:01:08.334)
Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

Jacob Cass, JUST Creative (01:01:12.315)
And that's what branding often is. It's like, well, things evolve. You know, some things come into things, your brand naturally, others, you know, fabricated, which is okay as well. But mascots, they're very memorable. Apart from the product and perhaps the logo, mascots are the most memorable item of a brand.

Paul Povolni (01:01:15.118)
Right.

Paul Povolni (01:01:22.926)
Right.

Yeah.

Paul Povolni (01:01:35.342)
Yeah, yeah, and I love that. And for the listeners, of course, we're going to have designers listening to this as well as people that are business owners and things like that. How would you apply that head smack moment of the mascot creation? How would you apply that to the business owner that is wondering, do I need something like that? Why would it benefit me? What would you tell them?

Jacob Cass, JUST Creative (01:01:59.355)
Why would it benefit you? Well, every business is different. Yeah. It's, it's hard to say like, if it's going to benefit you or not a mascot. So there's so many different variables. I can't say it's going to work for every business. You have to look at the pros and cons. Like what's your category, how other brands standing out? you know, are they using a mascot or, you know, is this an opportunity here? Does it make sense for our brand? And the people I see doing it is like, they actually stand out and they're memorable. And.

Paul Povolni (01:02:00.75)
Yeah, for a business owner.

Paul Povolni (01:02:17.838)
Yeah.

Paul Povolni (01:02:24.334)
Right.

Paul Povolni (01:02:28.334)
Right.

Jacob Cass, JUST Creative (01:02:29.051)
You know, like there's a few people online that are using like a purple monster or like a pigeon or, or even if it's a personal brand, you can become a mascot yourself. So I have another mate that he dresses in pink. He's a creative and everything he has is pink. He's got pink hoodie, pink beanie, pink earphones, like pink shoes, like he becomes a mascot. So there's different ways about it, but you have to figure out is it right for your brand? And there's, there's a lot of different variables to consider for that. And yeah.

Paul Povolni (01:02:33.966)
Right.

Paul Povolni (01:02:41.838)
Yeah. Yeah.

Paul Povolni (01:02:46.734)
Yeah. Yeah.

Paul Povolni (01:02:55.63)
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I love what you said there. I think there are several things there that we can highlight is, you know, you created, when you came up with this mascot, when you came up with this flamingo, is suddenly it gave you a language, it gave you visuals, it gave you a voice, it gave you a personality. Like it brought a lot with it that I think is valuable for a brand. If you can find a way,

Jacob Cass, JUST Creative (01:03:13.531)
voice.

Paul Povolni (01:03:24.942)
to create, like even Liquid Death, the drink in a can, they created an attitude, they created a personality that then influenced everything that they did moving forward. And I think that's a way to build a powerful brand is to create something that then creates the language around it, that creates the personality around it, that dictates visuals and things like that.

Jacob Cass, JUST Creative (01:03:47.035)
Yeah. Yeah. I will, I will share that it generally stems from the company's soul or essence or DNA. So what do these brands actually stand for and how are they translating this to, you know, their message in their story? So for, for, you know, liquid death, it's, you know, the whole idea of.

Paul Povolni (01:03:56.046)
Yeah. Yeah.

Paul Povolni (01:04:05.07)
Yeah.

Jacob Cass, JUST Creative (01:04:11.419)
You know, the environment is there, but it's also doing things differently. It's got like a death metal vibe and it has a certain aesthetic that stands out in the whole marketplace. And it relates back to the values and the customer as well. Like, you know, there are people are drinking water at a, you know, a concert, for example, they want to be seen as cool and this have this can like that's a great idea. And it works for us for the flamingo. Like it makes sense about standing out and being different in the marketplace is what we do as a service.

And we can get behind this idea of standing the flock out, daring to flare. And that theme kind of naturally comes from like the essence of your brand. So before you get into the personality or voice of your brand, you have to consider, well, what are our values? Like what's authentic to us? What do we believe in? And that's going to help dictate the personality and voice of your brand.

Paul Povolni (01:04:40.494)
Yeah.

Paul Povolni (01:04:58.701)
Yeah.

Paul Povolni (01:05:03.438)
Yeah, yeah, that is so good, man. That is so, so good. Well, man, this has been an amazing conversation, and I appreciate you coming on. If people wanted to get ahold of you, first of all, who do you want to get ahold of you, and how can you help them, and how do they get ahold of you?

Jacob Cass, JUST Creative (01:05:17.947)
So I've served two audiences, creatives and designers and people that want to become more strategic. I also serve business owners and help and entrepreneurs helping them with their strategy and their branding, everything from strategy to design to growth and marketing. That's all done through me at just creative .com. And yeah, I'm interested in connecting with anyone really, anyone that wants to learn about.

brand design marketing. And I have a ton of resources on my site, as you briefly mentioned before, you can go to branding briefcase .com and download it all there for free. There's strategy workbooks, there's logo inspiration, eBooks, there's strategic documents, there's sales, calls, documents to help you with your process. There's so much that like my custom GPTs that I've created for ChatGPD plus, and that's all free.

Paul Povolni (01:06:12.142)
That's awesome. Yeah. That's...

Jacob Cass, JUST Creative (01:06:13.435)
in exchange for your lovely email address. And there's no spam in there. It's pure value. You'll get a lot of value in the world of branding. So yeah, that resonates. Head over to justcreative .com.

Paul Povolni (01:06:23.118)
Yeah.

Paul Povolni (01:06:27.214)
Awesome. And yeah, if you're a designer, if you're creative, I definitely recommend you follow Jacob on all the socials, on everywhere he's at. Definitely provides a lot of high value. Download that briefcase. Your recent presentation for Adobe Live, I loved it. Your presentation on doing the San Francisco logo was amazing. And just even that, if you're a designer, definitely go check that out. Research that out. Jacob shared the whole process of redesigning.

Jacob Cass, JUST Creative (01:06:45.659)
Thank you.

Thank you, Matt.

Paul Povolni (01:06:56.686)
or designing a logo for a city, San Francisco, and talked about that entire process. And so if you're a designer, whether you're a mature designer or a startup designer, just joining the market as a creative, definitely go look that up as well. Thank you, Jacob. This has been awesome. I appreciate you being on.

Jacob Cass, JUST Creative (01:07:14.491)
Thank you, Paul. Yeah, great questions. And I'd love to chat about this and connect with others as well. So thank you.