Kyree Oliver / Men's Coach. Digital Marketer

A little bit of talk about marketing and a whole lot of deep talk about men and the role of modern masculinity in personal development.

Kyree Oliver is a digital marketing powerhouse and men's coach whose unconventional journey has led him to generate over $250 million in client revenue.

With a background as a college football player and a self-taught marketer, Kyree has become a trusted advisor to seven to nine-figure entrepreneurs.

His engaging social media presence and insightful coaching techniques have made him a prominent figure in the personal development space.

Kyree's story is one of resilience, authenticity, and a relentless pursuit of excellence.

Key Points:

1. Kyree transitioned from college football to digital marketing to market himself as a coach, which led to his success in both fields.
2. Authenticity in social media posts drives engagement and helps build a genuine personal brand.
3. Balancing a demanding career with being a present and involved father is challenging but crucial for personal fulfillment.
4. Effective coaching involves understanding client needs and helping them develop a strong sense of identity.
5. Embracing modern masculinity involves navigating uncomfortable conversations and overcoming societal pressures.

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/kyree/
Website: https://www.kyree.com/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/kyreeoliver1994

Paul Povolni, the founder of Voppa Creative, has been a creative leader for over 30 years, with clients around the world. He’s led teams in creating award-winning branding and design as well as equipping his clients to lead with Clarity, Creativity and Culture.

Headsmack Website

Transcript

Paul Povolni (01:11.705)
Hey, welcome to the Headsmack podcast. My name is Paul Povolni and I'm excited to have Kyrie Oliver with me today as a, one of the misfits that I've got to know on social media, and I'm looking forward to this conversation. How you doing Kyrie?

Kyree Oliver (01:28.93)
I'm doing well, man. Thank you, I appreciate you for having me on.

Paul Povolni (01:31.877)
Yeah, this is going to be great. Now, Kyrie is a unique misfit. He is a digital marketer who has done over 250 million in client revenue. He's a men's coach for seven to nine figure entrepreneurs. He's also a proud father of two beautiful kids and also probably one of the most...

Paul Povolni (01:56.697)
engaging social media posters I've seen in recent time. He posts on Facebook, he's also on different other platforms, but on Facebook his posts get so much engagement and whether he believes what he's saying or not, he's putting it out there and getting engagement and people make assumptions. And so well done, man. That's some pretty cool stuff.

Kyree Oliver (02:22.294)
Thank you, man. Thank you. First of all, I don't post anything that I don't believe. Yeah, so some things may be hyperbolized, maybe certain words are picked out because I know it's going to do something to a certain audience. But I made a rule a while ago for myself that I wouldn't post things that I don't genuinely believe.

Paul Povolni (02:25.827)
Oh, okay.

Paul Povolni (02:41.097)
Okay. Cause what I've noticed, you know, a lot of people make assumptions but on what you're saying. And so, you know, they, they kind of read into what you, what they think you're saying, but you're not really saying that. And so that's, that's a pretty, pretty good thing that you're doing there. That's, that's amazing.

Kyree Oliver (02:45.539)
That's it.

Kyree Oliver (02:54.834)
Yeah, sometimes like a, you just remove enough context for it to be a little spicy, right? For us to have some fun. And then I can always clarify my points in the comment section, which is where I've just found that is a really good tool for me is saying, okay, here's my full thoughts. Let me give 10% of it in a status and then I can clarify anything else in the comment section.

Paul Povolni (03:00.265)
Hahaha.

Paul Povolni (03:06.75)
Yeah.

Paul Povolni (03:19.121)
Oh man, you do it so well. And so, you know, you, you mentioned or I mentioned that you're a digital marketer, but is that where you got, you got your start or where did you start? What's the origin story of Kyrie Oliver?

Kyree Oliver (03:31.983)
So I'm an ex-athlete, so I was a college football player here in the States. I say this, I got into marketing so that I could actually learn how to market myself as a coach. I thought I was going to do marketing for like a year to a year and a half and then full-time coaching. And I think that it allowed me to express that.

Paul Povolni (03:52.797)
Co-athletic coaching or people like coaching.

Kyree Oliver (03:55.934)
Yeah, for coaching people. So for coaching men, and then that kind of turned into coaching entrepreneurs. Um, but I realized that it gave me credibility. The marketing business was like the real world business that gave me some level of credibility when actually talking to the type of men that I wanted to help. And so it was worthwhile to continue doing that. And then it, it kind of took off, obviously, like it, it became my main job for about five years. Um,

Paul Povolni (04:01.95)
Okay.

Kyree Oliver (04:23.786)
before I really said, okay, I am going to be a full-time coach as well. I still do marketing. I still consults. I still sit on a few boards of advisors. I still run ads for a few clients, but it's very limited. And so I kind of happened to become a marketer in service of coaching and then marketing kind of took over. And then now I would say the focus is probably like a 70 30 between coaching being the bigger part and then marketing being the smaller part.

Paul Povolni (04:52.357)
Now with, with the marketing, is that something that, um, you know, with the coaching and the marketing, is that some of your first jobs? Well, like what led you into that space? You mentioned with a coaching, you wanted to learn more about marketing yourself, but what kind of led you into that space? Was there anything else that kind of guided that path?

Kyree Oliver (05:02.306)
Yeah.

Kyree Oliver (05:10.29)
Yeah, so a friend of mine, we both kind of got into the personal development space around the same time. He's about 10 years older than I am. He was actually my trainer in high school. He was kind of my foray into personal development and online business. And I don't have a marketing background still to this day. I don't have like formal marketing training, which is kind of funny. But he had hired a marketing team to help him like with his first like personal development product.

Paul Povolni (05:32.86)
Yeah, yeah.

Kyree Oliver (05:40.342)
And he had hired this team. They weren't doing really well. And I was kind of making fun of him about it one day. I just said, you know, they've gotten you, I think it was like 28,000 followers on Facebook and you get seven to maybe 12 likes per post. It's like, something's wrong. Either you're not doing a good job of saying what you need to say, or they're not feeding you the right audience. Do you know, do you have any way to check that? And so I actually went in and found his page insights and I realized they were buying him followers from the Philippines. Like.

Paul Povolni (05:55.214)
Right. Yeah.

Paul Povolni (06:04.431)
Yeah.

Kyree Oliver (06:10.062)
26 of his 28,000 followers were all from the Philippines. And I was like, well, this kind of makes sense. And I was like, just, I was working in special education at the time back in California and wasn't making much money. In my head, I just, I really don't still know why. I was just like, let me try to figure out how to do this for you and pay me a few hundred bucks a month if I can figure it out. And we...

Paul Povolni (06:11.086)
Oh no.

Oh wow. Yeah.

Kyree Oliver (06:35.95)
kind of just took his brand and took off with it. I mean, I had spent so much time around him. I understood his voice, I understand who his message was for. And we built up his brand quite a bit. We pulled him up to, I think it was 180,000 followers in about a year from like that day. And I think I went straight from there to, how can I actually sell products? So I know how to build a brand now. I was using what I was understanding from psychology. So at the same time, I was interviewing people. This was kind of the...

Paul Povolni (06:50.697)
Wow.

Kyree Oliver (07:06.21)
The coaching side of things was I wanted to understand myself. I knew I wanted to help people. I didn't know how I was 19 years old. I knew I didn't have the life experience. Like who's going to listen. And I can't speed up time. So what's the best way to get as much experience as possible. And in my head, it was borrowing the experiences of other people. So I started interviewing people as much as I possibly could. I mean, friends, family.

Paul Povolni (07:18.845)
Right.

Paul Povolni (07:28.826)
Yeah, wow.

Kyree Oliver (07:34.486)
this guy's friends or his uncle's a doctor. I want to interview a doctor, a lawyer over here. This guy's running for mayor. Any type of person you can think of. And it ended up expanding also kind of same thing with the marketing. Like they kind of expanded by themselves. It felt like I interviewed over a thousand people, monks to billionaires, to homeless people, three death row inmates.

Paul Povolni (07:54.429)
Wow.

Kyree Oliver (08:00.81)
Um, I did 65 end of life interviews. So people who were terminally ill, I just wanted to learn as much as I could about as many types of people as I possibly could. And I realized that helped me a lot in marketing, the human psychology and recognizing patterns and how we view ourselves in the world around us helped me shape how I view marketing from a different lens than most marketers. Again, most marketers don't have the social aspect. Um, a lot of them are pretty reclusive. A lot of them are just sitting behind the computer all day and

Paul Povolni (08:13.787)
Yeah.

Kyree Oliver (08:29.158)
I was dedicating myself to learning as much as I could about other people. And I saw how well that related back to like consumer psychology and why do we buy the things we do? Why do we buy into the beliefs and the habits and behaviors that we end up buying into? So I was just kind of accidentally building both of my businesses up to the point where they are right now.

Paul Povolni (08:49.725)
That's amazing. So you started in the health space, you went into the marketing space, and then you brought the health space into the marketing space, right? And so, uh, so that's amazing. And so with the research and with everything that you did, it was out of, you know, a previous thing that you were done. Um, you just brought it into what you were doing and that, that equipped you and made you better at it. And so with, with the marketing and so, you know, the breadth of what you were doing was, uh, social media. Um, was that primarily what you were doing?

Kyree Oliver (08:57.164)
Yeah.

Kyree Oliver (09:08.46)
Yeah.

Kyree Oliver (09:18.834)
Yeah, it's always been social media marketing. So Facebook and Instagram ads.

Paul Povolni (09:20.275)
Okay.

So when, when did that transition into, cause now you're doing the men's coaching and, um, you know, moving into that space, is that something that you were drawn to or pushed into?

Kyree Oliver (09:27.726)
Mm-hmm.

Kyree Oliver (09:37.134)
It's funny, I'm actually making a video about this, either today or tomorrow. I've got to figure out exactly what I want to say, but why I came into men's coaching specifically, because again, I knew I wanted to help people. I didn't know exactly why. And what I found was that for men, I looked at what was my view of manhood in general and where did it come from? And it didn't come from a singular source. I didn't grow up with my dad in my house. He was.

around but pretty inconsistent. And it caused me to want to learn the things he was supposed to teach me from anywhere else that I possibly could. And so where I find that most people, their model of what a man is supposed to look like, at least from an earlier age, let's say into your twenties, is your dad. And that wasn't a sufficient model for me. And so instead of saying, I'm going to deal with the inefficient model or insufficient model,

I'm just gonna go find the pieces that I feel are missing. And there was a lot of pieces that I felt were missing. And so I went and found them, I think probably throughout my whole life. I think it was more subconscious at first, like as a kid, I think I understood that this wasn't gonna be the guy that was gonna show me how to do this thing. And so I started kind of collecting other father figures or male figures in my life, from coaches to teachers to friends, dads.

Paul Povolni (10:37.926)
Right, right, yeah.

Kyree Oliver (10:59.538)
And I think it was just in that process of collecting. I saw just how much of a deficit there was not for myself, just like, not just for myself, but for a lot of guys, even who did have dad at home, a lot of those guys got injected with dad's biases, dad's shortcomings, dad's beliefs about himself became the son's belief about himself. So I think not having it right in front of me or not growing up with it in my house, I think it created a deficit that.

Paul Povolni (11:10.643)
Yeah.

Kyree Oliver (11:27.602)
It created a void that there was, you know, there was a vacuum action attached to it. And I think I just wanted to fill that as much as I possibly could for myself. And then I realized how much it existed in other people too. So I think I helped do that now.

Paul Povolni (11:42.725)
Right. And so at what point did, did leaning into that happen? Was it, has it always been a part of your, your interest or did something kind of trigger that move? Was it becoming a dad of two kids that kind of reignited that, or is it always been part of who you are? Yeah.

Kyree Oliver (11:55.382)
Hmm.

Kyree Oliver (11:59.282)
knows well before that. I mean, I had my first kid at 27. But I've been dreaming about my kids since I was like 19. I've known I wanted kids, I've known I wanted to be a dad. Again, I've known that I wanted to break this sort of cycle on that side of my family as well.

Kyree Oliver (12:20.862)
I don't know that it was like a specific spark that said, yes, this is what I want to do. I think when I started uncovering, okay, here's my identity outside of sports. Here's the person I'm looking to become. I'm looking to be helpful. I'm looking to push people forward. I'm looking to do these things. I think it just came as what I would say is a natural consequence of who I was becoming. And I think that that's a lot of what I teach now is

Manhood is not a set of things that you do. It is a way of being masculinity is a way of being That if i'm just the right person if i'm telling myself the right story about myself in the world around me The the right things come as a natural consequence of that It's not something I have to push out for or make a list and say, okay Make sure i'm doing these 2800 things every day Um, it becomes your natural operating system. So I think I just kind of learned that along the way

Paul Povolni (13:12.308)
Yeah.

Kyree Oliver (13:14.47)
and just started teaching as much as I was learning at the same time. Yeah.

Paul Povolni (13:18.333)
Right. Well, and so, so you're, um, you know, of course doing the marketing and that's very different to coaching men and, and with their needs, were you posting socially on it and people are like, I want, I want more of what you're saying, or I want to be a part of that world that you're creating. Is that what you found happening?

Kyree Oliver (13:35.666)
Yeah. So I started doing it. It was really, it started off with friends, I think. I think they knew like I was doing all these interviews and I was gaining all this information. I was understanding these people a lot more and they would start coming to me with questions. I was kind of always the friend that people would come to for advice even before I would say I was qualified for it. But I was always just wanting, I was just wanting to help.

Paul Povolni (13:56.793)
Yeah. That's a good indicator that, you know, that people, people wanted to, to be a part of that. They just saw something in you. Yeah. That's pretty good.

Kyree Oliver (14:03.314)
Yeah. So I think it was just like, it was saved from my friend group at first. And then 2018, it was actually in March in 2018. I made my first post that went viral. And I think I got bit by the bug and it was like, Oh, that I like that. And that's kind of when I started implementing this rule was like, I had hyperbolized, not hyperbolized, I had chosen wording in my post that I knew was going to make people angry. But I stood by what I had said.

Paul Povolni (14:20.283)
Yeah.

Kyree Oliver (14:33.426)
And so I think once I got bit by that bug of like, oh, I can really, one, light people on fire. I can get them to challenge the ways that they currently think about themselves and I can get a lot of attention for it and probably eventually it'll become business. But it has to come with a level of responsibility. And so I'm glad I was able to imbue that level of responsibility inside of it. But March of 2018, I wrote a post about, I believe in a patriarchy inside of a family unit.

Paul Povolni (14:39.826)
Yeah.

Paul Povolni (14:50.971)
Yeah.

Kyree Oliver (15:01.162)
And I said, not in a system of governing, not in any other way, but inside of a household, I believe that the father should lead a household. And the fact that I said that word, patriarchy just blooped. I mean, it was mostly people from high school. And so it was a bunch of girls from high school or people sharing it. Um, and I, from my high school, I'm sorry. Yeah. Most of my social media at that time was like some people I had met at some of these, uh, personal development events, but mostly people from my hometown.

Paul Povolni (15:20.361)
from your high school or high school age. Oh, okay, yeah.

Kyree Oliver (15:31.526)
Um, or who knew me from football in some way. And so as it started doing that, I started just posting more often. So from, I could go find the day. I want to say it's like March 18th, 2018. Uh, I've posted three times a day, every single day up to today. Um, I I've missed, I think six days in total, and they've all been like big life events that have happened those days. Uh, but almost every single day you're going to see me.

Paul Povolni (15:51.154)
Well.

Paul Povolni (15:57.011)
Yeah.

Kyree Oliver (16:00.358)
on my Facebook three times a day saying something. Yeah.

Paul Povolni (16:03.617)
Yeah. And, and it's so good because it's very engaging content. And so, you know, when it comes to, you know, so people started leaning into you and saying, Hey, I want to be a part of what you're doing, or I want to talk to you and stuff. And so did, was that as a, um, a general people leaning into you for coaching, or did immediately men start gravitating towards what you were doing?

Kyree Oliver (16:13.912)
Yeah.

Kyree Oliver (16:25.95)
Yeah, it was definitely mostly primarily men. I would say it's been the same throughout the entire time of me running this coaching side. It's probably been a 90-10 split. I work with a few women. It's obviously not who my messaging is geared toward, but I find that female entrepreneurs who find themselves a little bit too far on the masculine side, sometimes I think that they gravitate towards me and.

I think the first few, I was just like, oh, I'm not quite sure if I'm the person to help you. Maybe a female coach is the right one for you. And I think a few of them were just like, hey, I've tried the female coaches you're suggesting to me and no, I would need to try this approach. And so we started working together and it ended up working out. And so it wasn't something I was going out for, but again, I would say 90 plus percent of my clients are male.

Paul Povolni (17:17.545)
So, you know, culture is kind of at an interesting point where a lot of, you know, sometimes polarizing people are getting attention and drawing a lot of young men and things like that. What do you think that's happening like right now? Why in 2024 does it seem like such a hot thing to be talking to young men especially?

Kyree Oliver (17:35.41)
Yeah, again, I think that void that I felt has circumnavigated the globe now. I think it's just everywhere and people are looking for an answer, good answer, bad answer, just some answer. And I think that that's what we're seeing. We're seeing a vacuum that has been created in mostly young men and anything and everything is being pulled into that vacuum. Good, bad, ugly, all of it.

Paul Povolni (18:01.041)
And so what are you finding, like when it comes to working with men, what are you finding that is the first chipping away or first, first thing that you need to make sure is aligned or set up or, or in a good place before you can actually start working with them.

Kyree Oliver (18:18.579)
I would say one thing is not having all the answers and none of the outcomes. That's probably one of the biggest barriers I've seen. And one of the biggest reasons I say no to clients now is the guy who goes, Hey man, I obviously need help with something like this. I thought I had it together, but I obviously don't. And then by the time we talk about it, they go, yay. I've heard that before. Yeah. I've tried that before. I've done this before. I understand all this stuff. Just tell me this. I'll go, if you, if you want me to coach you.

Paul Povolni (18:44.571)
Yeah.

Kyree Oliver (18:47.402)
you know, with your mentality, with my voice, that's not quite what's happening. Your mentality and the way you move through these things is why you're in the position you're in. And I would say the guys who have all of the answers and none of the outcomes are probably the ones who are in the most danger right now.

Paul Povolni (18:52.724)
That's so good.

Paul Povolni (18:57.481)
Right.

Paul Povolni (19:06.269)
Well, and that seems to be where we're at with a culture too. It seems like knowledge is so abundant, you know, and like you said, this, that, you know, this person would say, well, I know that, I know that, I know that, you know, it's like, I think we're in a place where we have so much knowledge of so much stuff, uh, but we just don't execute, you know, and, and we're ever learning, we're ever looking for the...

new way to say the same thing, you know, and hopefully that's the igniter for us to make a change. But, you know, then we, then we go on, move on to the next one as well. And so, you know, so the first thing is, you know, acknowledging or taking action on some things that you already know and moving away from just being a head knowledge and a thing that I once learned or saw on a podcast or saw on a video. Um, and so, you know, go ahead.

Kyree Oliver (19:35.073)
Yeah.

Kyree Oliver (19:53.202)
Yeah. I think that's it too, is a lot of people hear the thing that's being said by the person that they view as smarter than them and because it's more well articulated, they accept it as right. And so I think it is a lot of this, oh, I think this way and it's not really them thinking that way. It's them consuming somebody who does think that way. And in the person's mind, they go, that person's smarter than me or they understand this better than I do. So I'm just going to adopt

leave the room for curiosity. Cause I think we don't want to feel dumb. And so we don't want to, curiosity feels like stupidity because I have to entertain the possibility of being wrong and being seen as foolish in order to become right about something. And I don't think they're willing to take that step, that curiosity step that I'm willing to look foolish for a period of time in order to actually find the answers on the other side. I'd much rather pretend to understand this already. And I don't have to think about other possibilities.

Paul Povolni (20:51.761)
Well, I think that's, that's also a thing with, um, where we're at culturally is we don't like looking stupid because we've got a worldwide audience. You know, uh, we, we post so much, we, we share so much, um, that, you know, we had no idea who was doing what and what they thought, but now everybody just shares their thoughts, good, bad, and ugly and.

Kyree Oliver (20:57.75)
Yeah.

Kyree Oliver (21:04.119)
Yeah.

Kyree Oliver (21:11.891)
all over the place.

Paul Povolni (21:13.205)
And so, you know, we, we don't like to feel stupid. We don't like to feel vulnerable and, and even our authenticity is staged. You know, it's, it's even, uh, manicured and, uh, and policed of what we actually share in being authentic. Um, and so it's not really the true authentic stuff. And so, you know, when it comes to even, you know, what you're talking about is. Yeah. They, they, they don't want to open up and, um,

Kyree Oliver (21:30.008)
Mm-hmm.

Paul Povolni (21:42.873)
say this is the real me and I don't get it. I don't understand. I am confused. I don't know what's next. What are some things when it comes to working with young men? Now, you probably work with young and old, right? It's not just young men.

Kyree Oliver (22:00.298)
It's again, 90% under 30. Most of the guys I work with are young, successful entrepreneurs. Cause this is where I see that void being the largest is the men with more money than they have character, more access than they have responsibility. It's the ones who can afford to make a lot of big mistakes and they're starting down that path and they're

Paul Povolni (22:04.286)
Wow.

Kyree Oliver (22:28.054)
they're realizing it or they're not realizing it. And maybe something I'm saying is making them think differently or making them angry sometimes where they have to stop and figure out what they do think about some of the things I'm saying. So it's almost all male entrepreneurs, probably 18 to 30 is my good point.

I have worked with guys who are older than me, but the difficulty there is I'm 29. I turned 30 this weekend and it's a tough pill for a lot of the older guys to swallow to say, what can this 29 year old tell me about my life? Whether again, whether the outcomes have generated are different, better foundations are stronger, whatever it is. It's very difficult to then go and say, what can this kid tell me about my

Paul Povolni (23:18.045)
And I think that's, I think that's a sad mindset to have because truth is truth. You know, it doesn't matter the source, you know, and if it's coming from a 29 year old, um, and it's truth, then I should be able to receive it. I should be able to say, yeah, I, that, that is true. And I need to rethink what I'm doing. And so. Yeah.

Kyree Oliver (23:25.379)
Sure.

Kyree Oliver (23:32.94)
Yeah.

Kyree Oliver (23:36.286)
Yeah. But that's the difficulty is. It doesn't. It depends on how you believe or what you believe, religious, spirituality, whatever. I don't believe most of what I say is coming from me. I think it's coming through. I don't need to take credit for it. I'm just the person here giving it. And so I don't.

Paul Povolni (23:59.643)
Right.

Kyree Oliver (24:02.762)
When people talk to me, and this has been since I was 20, 21, I don't sound like my age. What's coming through isn't my age. And I think people need to, not need to, I think it's beneficial for people to believe that.

I'm maybe a unique person who's not limited by my physical age. I have concepts, I have thoughts, I have all these, again, I have a thousand people's life stories running through my brain at the same time. So maybe it is only that. But there is something operating here that isn't normal. And that is something that's worthwhile to tap into for the people who feel called to. And so I just thankfully...

Paul Povolni (24:32.636)
Ryan, Ryan.

Kyree Oliver (24:46.722)
I got rid of those judgments of my age for myself a while ago. At first, I told myself I wasn't going to start coaching until I was 30, which is hilarious to think about to turn 30. And I've been doing it for five, five years now. So it's just something I don't ever try to make people drop. I have the people on my Facebook who are willing to outwardly say like, hey, what can you what could you possibly teach me? What could you possibly tell me? I have more life experience than you do.

Paul Povolni (24:54.623)
Yeah.

Kyree Oliver (25:14.318)
And my short answer for a lot of them is I disagree. I think a lot of them have been late living the same life over and over again, year after year after year. And I think the growth pattern has stopped in a lot of those people. And I just, this has been my focus since I've been, since I was 18, 19 years old.

Paul Povolni (25:23.997)
Wow.

Paul Povolni (25:30.865)
Man, that's powerful. Some people live the same life over and over. That's awesome. Well, and I think for me, even with growing up, you know, there had to be a time where I had to act my age and not my shoe size, you know, where, where I, where I had to, and, and make decisions even based on relationships. And because there was some people that was hanging around with it, they were acting their shoe size, not their age, you know, and, and there's a level of maturity that you have to start moving into.

Kyree Oliver (25:44.81)
Yeah.

Kyree Oliver (25:55.294)
Not good, yeah.

Paul Povolni (25:59.737)
And for some people, they are able to absorb and spot patterns and spot, they can create, formulate these frameworks, they can formulate steps. They're just wired that way. And I think it's a bad thing for us when we discount youth and say, you just haven't lived long enough to be able to speak on that wisdom. I mean, Jesus felt it, right? You know, he went back to his hometown and they're like,

Yeah, do you know what? We know your mom and your brothers. And by the way, I have like a kitchen set made by you, you know, our kitchen table was made by you and your dad, you know, type thing. And so, you know, the, the lack of honor limited his ability to do anything because they're like, yeah, we kind of know you and you're kind of a young guy. Why should we listen to you?

Kyree Oliver (26:32.813)
Yeah.

Kyree Oliver (26:39.154)
you.

Kyree Oliver (26:52.686)
But this is also as difficult is you can't say that without people going, you know, are you comparing yourself to Jesus now? Are you a Jesus now? Are you this godly figure? Are you this incredible thing? And again, I just, I don't need the credit for it, but why don't we benefit from it? Like we might as well. You can call it me, you can call it something else. Why would we not just benefit from what it has to offer? I don't, I don't even feel the need to dig too far into it. I get back from clients often.

Paul Povolni (27:00.962)
Hahaha

Yeah.

Kyree Oliver (27:22.846)
uh, things that I'll say in a session that I genuinely don't remember saying. I've had to now start recording my sessions, like, because my clients have been like, dude, some of this needs to be captured, right? Um, but for the first X amount of years, none of it was recorded. It was just, I get into this. I'm still here. Like, it's not like I'm not saying the things that I'm saying, but if you were to ask me about it right after the call ends, I couldn't recall most of it.

Paul Povolni (27:28.969)
Hehehehe

Paul Povolni (27:33.35)
Yeah, yeah.

Paul Povolni (27:45.786)
Right.

Kyree Oliver (27:51.242)
And I think it is maybe this flow state that I sometimes can get into and just something starts operating and starts working that it works. And so I feel this deep responsibility to give it as much as I possibly can.

Paul Povolni (27:51.451)
Yeah.

Paul Povolni (28:00.659)
Yeah.

Paul Povolni (28:06.985)
Well, I think even with, you know, when it comes to creativity, it works that way. I, you know, sometimes it can be a God thing, you know, and, you know, those that might be listening, you know, whether God's a part of their life or not, or spirituality, I think it can be a God thing. But I think also for me, what I sometimes talk about when it comes to creativity is I'm like a sponge and I absorb influences. I absorb ideas. I absorb all this stuff. And then when it comes time to create.

the sponge is squeezed, you know, and stuff comes out. And sometimes it's original, it feels original, but it's actually a collection of all the stuff that I've been absorbing. And so for you, you get into that flow state, right?

Kyree Oliver (28:36.618)
Yeah. Found it.

Kyree Oliver (28:47.21)
I think it's a huge part of it. Again, and I talk about this a lot. Like when I just finishing up my course right now and in the last module I talk about, I based my last module off of literary conflicts. A man versus man, man versus self, man versus society, nature and God. And in the God one, it's the longest one that I have and it's the last one that I have. And I kind of specify in there like, I don't care what you call it. Call it God, call it karma, call it Allah, call it universe, call it.

your higher self, call it your better self, call it the best version of you. Don't give a single blank what you call it. The thing is the thing is the thing, a rose by any other name would smell just as sweet. I don't care what you call it. Let's recognize the thing that is operating here and let us contend with it, wrestle with it, make peace with it and understand it. That's it.

Paul Povolni (29:36.325)
Right. Well, and like we said earlier, you know, truth is truth and, you know, whatever you want to call it, um, you know, truth can stand examination. The, the, the harder you look at truth, the truthier it gets. Right. And so, you know, you, you can't deny truth, whatever source it comes from. And so, you know, when it comes to working with men, um, what are some, some lies that men believe that gets them, gets them to the point that they need to see a coach.

Kyree Oliver (29:48.406)
Yeah, yeah.

Kyree Oliver (30:00.75)
Hmm.

Kyree Oliver (30:04.746)
Yeah, those are tough men. Because it is like I say I help men navigate uncomfortable conversations with themselves because that I think at the core that is what we're doing. We're navigating these pieces of their psyches that they don't like to venture into that are uncomfortable. That don't feel good that are bringing up old wounds that are bringing up old traumas. I think the biggest lies. I just post about this last time on Facebook like the things that

especially young successful men will attach to themselves to make up for this feeling of lack internally. I don't feel like I am this type of man that I wanna feel like I am. But if I can get other people to believe I'm this person, maybe I'll start believing it too, right? If I can attach enough of the flash or the glitz and the glamor or the right words, if I can attach those things to myself and make them part of my brand, make them part of my social media, that...

Hopefully it'll make other people believe I'm this. And maybe I'll start believing it too. And maybe I'll start acting more like it if I start believing it a little bit more. Unfortunately, and this is where I think mindset coaches often fall short. I don't consider myself a mindset coach. People ask me if I'm a mindset coach and I go, most of the people I know who call themselves that kind of suck. And so, no, I don't think of that at all. I think it has more to do with identity. So I think mindset coaches are great at behaviors.

Paul Povolni (31:22.954)
Right. Yeah.

Paul Povolni (31:27.849)
Right.

Kyree Oliver (31:29.278)
And I think they're decent at beliefs. And I think there's a core aspect that lies underneath both of those, which is your identity. It's the stories I tell myself about my life up to this point and the people around me. And it's a lot of rewriting some of these subconscious operating systems that we have running that we didn't recognize or that we did recognize and go, ah, I'm gonna deal with that later. Ah, when I make enough money, then I'll be able to come back and be a good person. And we realized that it rarely ever happens. Rarely ever do people backtrack.

Paul Povolni (31:36.934)
Right.

Paul Povolni (31:51.299)
Yeah.

Paul Povolni (31:57.805)
Right. Well, and then with money comes options. I mean, that's a big thing that comes with options and with options comes distractions. With distractions comes procrastination and leaving the main things undone that need to be done. But, you know, when it comes to identity, one of the things that I've realized is with identity comes clarity. You know, when you know who you are, you know what to do. When you know...

Kyree Oliver (32:04.651)
lot.

Kyree Oliver (32:14.111)
Yeah.

Paul Povolni (32:23.761)
your identity, it gives you clarity on things that need to get done on the work that needs to get done. And so is that kind of where you start chipping away? You know, I think it was somebody had asked Michelangelo, you know, how do you, how do you carve a statue and you just chip away at everything that doesn't look like the statue, you know? And so is that where you start with identity?

Kyree Oliver (32:42.712)
Yeah

Yeah, we do, like I do an upstart, like identity session with most of my clients, not with most of them, with all of them. And it's like a two and a half hour deep dive that we do. And it is clarifying this new identity, this new identity that I choose to step into. So that they're not now being held to my standard. They're not being, this is again, where I think a lot of coaches fall short, is they're creating replicas of themselves. And...

there's just so many different people. I know how unique I am. And so I couldn't imagine trying to create a bunch of multiples of this. That that can be maybe for my son to some degree, but I definitely don't want to do for my clients. Um, and so it's helping them set a standard for themselves and then genuinely just holding them to that. I don't need you to be me. I don't need you to believe all the things that I believe. A lot of my clients and I don't agree on certain things. We have friction in certain areas. Some of them, it's just a, Hey man, agree to disagree, but here's how to think about it.

Paul Povolni (33:42.984)
Yeah.

Kyree Oliver (33:42.986)
And a lot of times what we find is the clarity in helping them learn how to think about it. I think that's been the difficulty up to this point is they've had a very rigid way of thinking about whatever they choose to think about. And it's expanding that and it's saying here are some other options. But if we were to just say here's who I am, then it's so much easier to say here's what options work for me, right? Do they fit who I say I am? Do they not fit who I say I am? And not that I need to cut everything immediately.

Paul Povolni (34:07.646)
Right.

Kyree Oliver (34:11.71)
I know there's a lot of people who try to teach that, you know, anything that doesn't serve you, anything that's not amazingly aligned with your higher self level, I cut it off right away. Sometimes it's a transition period. Sometimes there's still lessons to learn. If it's a relationship, if it's a business partnership, squeeze what you can out of the thing, but ultimately decide whether this is for me longterm or not. Yeah.

Paul Povolni (34:23.078)
Right.

Paul Povolni (34:33.913)
Right. Well, and I think, I think, you know, something that you said there was, you know, you're not wanting them to be like you, you wanted them to find their own identity. But I do think there is a certain level of value in until you find your own voice, you know, be a really good echo of something else, you know, I, you know, even, you know, if you're Bible based, you know, the apostle Paul said, follow me as I follow Christ, like, you know,

do the stuff that I do, be like me until you kind of find your own way of doing stuff. And so I think there is a little bit of value in that in saying, well, Kyrie, I like the way he's got stuff together until I fully find who I am and what I'm about and what's important to me. I'm going to follow what he's doing. And I think that's what your course is going to help them with is, you're sharing some of those insights with them. And so I think there is some value in that.

Kyree Oliver (35:14.113)
Yeah.

Kyree Oliver (35:30.286)
There is, there is, but it has to be merit based, right? I can't tell you to follow me until you figure this out, but I can show you something that's worth following until you figure this out. And that's the job. It's not telling you to do it, especially again, for the type of men that I work with, is gonna get them to go the complete opposite way. I don't wanna be like somebody else. So why are you telling me to be like you? But if it's based on merit, if it's based on, ah, he's got a point, damn it. I don't like it, but he's got a point.

Paul Povolni (35:39.579)
Yeah, that's good.

Paul Povolni (35:50.403)
Yeah.

Kyree Oliver (35:57.482)
If it's based on something like that, I find them way more open to what I have to say.

Paul Povolni (35:59.339)
Yeah.

Paul Povolni (36:02.793)
Right. Well, and they've got to, they've got to be willing to want to change. And so who are the, who are the people that you can't help?

Kyree Oliver (36:12.598)
people I can't help.

Kyree Oliver (36:17.302)
the people who are only looking for confirmation of what they already believe. And that's it. And it has to stay within that structure. I can't help those people yet.

Paul Povolni (36:28.691)
Yeah.

Kyree Oliver (36:29.758)
Yeah, because something has to break down and I've seen it happen a lot. I've seen the people that I believed I couldn't help come back and go, dude, thank you for not being an asshole to me when I was an asshole to you. Thank you for, you know, responding to my comment on your post the way that you did. Cause I try to let people leave with dignity. Like I will talk my stuff on my Facebook, but when somebody knows that there be in an argument and a discussion or if my audience starts piling onto them.

Paul Povolni (36:41.762)
Yeah.

Kyree Oliver (36:56.414)
Every once in a while, I'll shoot them a message separately saying, Hey man, like I get where you were coming from. And I think there's something better for you. I hope you find it. I'm really not big on like hard pitching people into working with me. I'm not coming in people's DM saying, Hey, I saw that last trauma post about your breakup. Do you want to talk about it? Come work with me. I just make it a point to never do that. But P, I find a space where people know they can come to me when it's the right time. So my job was to just put it out there, put it out there, put it out there.

Paul Povolni (37:09.096)
Yeah.

Paul Povolni (37:14.51)
Right, right.

Paul Povolni (37:22.643)
Yeah.

Kyree Oliver (37:26.326)
The right person is going to see the right thing at the right time. And it's all inbound and it works well that way.

Paul Povolni (37:32.793)
Yeah. And I would imagine that for somebody too, that they've got to be at a point where the, the pain of staying the same is greater than the pain of change. Right. And so they're, they're ready to make that change and they're ready to listen. And that would make them a better candidate than somebody that's like, Hey, I've got the money. I'm just going to pay for another coach. You know, I'm just going to, you know, invest in somebody else and, you know, I'll, I'll kind of.

take what I want and throw out the rest and I'll pay attention. Cause you know, that kind of limits the whole experience of immersing themselves in what you offer, right?

Kyree Oliver (38:09.61)
Yeah, and I've had those people and I tell them politely to fuck off and go somewhere else. I don't know if I'm allowed to cuss, but I tell them in the nicest way possible, fuck off and go somewhere else. And again, some of those people come back and go, I realized now my life had to get worse before I was ready. And I know that that's the answer, but I can't tell them that that's the answer. When they're pushing up against it over and over again, and I really just want to pick these few little things from you, you're just not ready for it yet. It's never just these few little things. You wouldn't have come to me if it was just these few little things.

Paul Povolni (38:15.296)
Yeah, yeah, totally. Right.

Paul Povolni (38:34.664)
Yeah.

Paul Povolni (38:39.557)
Yeah, it's got to be totally immersive. Yeah. And so it's right.

Kyree Oliver (38:39.722)
You would watch a YouTube video. Yeah. Yeah, you have to buy in. If you don't buy in, it just, it genuinely doesn't work.

Paul Povolni (38:46.981)
Right, right. You had posted something recently and you said, if you don't heal what hurt you, you'll bleed on people that didn't cut you. Talk about that for a little bit.

Kyree Oliver (38:54.602)
Yeah. I heard about that maybe five, six years ago. It was a radio host and he probably got it from somewhere else. Um, his name's Charlamagne the God. He used to be on, um, some radio station in New York, big radio station in New York. Um, and I think he just said the quote as like a standalone thing. And I started really thinking into that and how much, whenever I post that, I just get flooded with messages about it. And

Paul Povolni (39:22.481)
Yeah, well.

Kyree Oliver (39:23.086)
Oh my gosh, this hit or this did something to me or this did something for me. And I think it is like, it goes back to that trauma thing of it doesn't matter where it came from, it's still there. Or I also like what you don't heal. You will pass on, especially when it comes to like having children, your child. And I have two kids are a genuine reflection of all the things I have and have not done for myself by the time I have them, or by the time we run into whatever hiccup we're running into.

Paul Povolni (39:52.307)
Right.

Kyree Oliver (39:52.642)
And so I think this is a huge part of it. It's taking things that have happened to you from other people and attaching them to people in your current reality and sometimes treating them in a way that they don't deserve. Sometimes it's treating yourself in a way that you don't deserve, right? Sometimes it is a pain that somebody else caused me that I'm now beating myself up for. So it doesn't matter who it is. It is if you don't heal what hurts you, you will bleed on the people who didn't cut you, including yourself and the people around you.

Paul Povolni (40:21.417)
Man, that is, yeah, that is a powerful quote. When I saw that I immediately had to, you know, talk about it with you, because I think it is so real. It is, you know, we all deal with stuff that is in our past and sometimes our reactions, sometimes the way we treat people is because there's something that we haven't dealt with. There's something we haven't faced. There is, there is a giant in our life that we've just let scream at us, you know, day and night. Yeah.

Kyree Oliver (40:47.886)
I mean, it's always that you think about like, besides genuine personality disorders, we were all like a cute, nice little kid. I see like the innocence of my children. And it actually, it makes me feel worse for the adults that I see running around here. Cause I'm like, they were probably this at one point too, what happened? So it's not that doesn't exist. It's not that people don't get jaded and biased. And this is where I get like the guys who were in their 40s and 50s saying, what can a 29 year old teach me?

Paul Povolni (41:07.207)
Ryan.

Kyree Oliver (41:17.47)
In some ways, I'm just way less jaded than you are. I also just don't have the years of like gunk and filth and bad inputs that I've attached to myself that a lot of, not everybody, but that a lot of people have. I chose to start digging and peeling back layers really early and I've stuck with that process. Whereas there are people who have been just decades under a mountain of sludge for themselves. And I don't think more years allows you to have less of that.

Paul Povolni (41:20.009)
Yeah.

Paul Povolni (41:40.618)
Right, right.

Paul Povolni (41:44.917)
Yeah. And I think, I think that is a cultural thing that I think we need to get over is who we learn from. Because, you know, when it comes to learning from younger men, younger women that have been through some stuff that have learned that have come out on the other side victorious, or they've spot the patterns or they analyze stuff in a way that maybe you don't. I think we miss out by not tapping into that. But I think we also tap into as a culture, not valuing elders.

like we used to, you know, because there's some people that have been through stuff that can totally share with us their struggles, their victories, the things that they've accomplished that have changed their lives, that have brought them to a place where they're at and in a healthier place. Do you have any elder mentors that have impacted your life?

Kyree Oliver (42:19.413)
Oh yeah.

Kyree Oliver (42:38.454)
Absolutely. I collect them. I'm a collector of elder mentors. This is again where it's funny. When people do the, you know, that I'm sometimes in a way disrespecting my elders by, by kind of pointing out that, Hey, years don't give you experience necessarily years can be on repeat. But the closest men that I hold, whose opinions of me and the world I hold most dear are in their fifties and sixties.

Paul Povolni (42:58.44)
Right.

Kyree Oliver (43:07.986)
Um, there's a core group of four that I, that I really lean on. Um, but again, I find these guys all over the place. I play poker with a few of them. Uh, every Wednesday, I was just playing with them last night at a lounge here in Scottsdale, Arizona. Um, I love finding the men who have been doing what I'm doing for an extended amount of time. That's what I'm looking for. That's who I see like search for. That's who I seek out is who's the guy who started learning this.

around the ages that I started learning it and has decades of experience under his belt now. Yeah.

Paul Povolni (43:42.165)
Right. Well, and I think there is so much value to that. And I think there's certain, you know, turning points in our lives that change perspective for us, you know, and I call them head smack moments, you know. And so with, you know, you had mentioned your kids, you mentioned your wife. What kind of perspective head smacks did you have when you got married, when you found the love of your life?

Kyree Oliver (43:56.343)
Yeah.

Paul Povolni (44:09.373)
And when the kids came along, were there any shifts that you had to like totally chip away and say, Oh my goodness, this is way different than, than what I thought it was.

Kyree Oliver (44:18.445)
Yeah.

Kyree Oliver (44:22.122)
Yeah, first, I would say the biggest one is my daughter being born. The biggest head smack I've probably experienced in the last probably 10 years has been my daughter being born because it was exactly what I needed and what I was most afraid of. I was so scared to.

Kyree Oliver (44:41.314)
to become the exact representation of what my daughter will expect a man to be. Now, it's not that I had these massive shortcomings. It was, I think, the weight of that responsibility and that I knew I'm gonna take it seriously. It wasn't something I was gonna be allowed to take lightly. It's not something I was going to allow myself to be like, I'll just think about that when she's a teenager. I can already see how my interactions with my wife and with my daughter shape how she views herself and shape how she views people around her.

Paul Povolni (44:55.272)
Yeah.

Paul Povolni (45:09.053)
Yeah.

Kyree Oliver (45:11.338)
And I think the weight of that responsibility, that's actually probably right when I started working with more women and it might have been a God thing, a universe thing, whatever. But as soon as we found out that we were having a daughter, we found out really early when my wife was pregnant. Um, as soon as we found out we were having a daughter, I got flooded with female clients. I mean, five or six in a row where it was maybe once every four or five months that I would have a female client come along, it was like, boom, boom.

Paul Povolni (45:32.975)
Well...

Kyree Oliver (45:40.498)
And I realized that, okay, this is putting something in front of you and becoming a representation of how you're going to view your daughter. Because my, my male clients, I do see, I don't want to call them sons because they're not like that. Most of them end up becoming like brothers or little brothers to me, but some, in some way, a representation of like, I'm a fatherly ish brotherly ish figure to them. And I was just used to that. I was used to that with men. And I think it was a big.

Paul Povolni (45:47.443)
Right.

Paul Povolni (46:01.669)
Right, right, authority, yeah.

Kyree Oliver (46:09.498)
Oh shoot, there's a whole other world here. There's a whole other softening that needs to happen here as well because I can play around in Guy Land as much as I want. But I have a little baby girl coming that is going to require a softness that I don't know I have access to yet. And so it has required this. Yeah, this softness to come out that I was just not embracing before. I just, it wasn't required before. And suddenly it's now required.

Paul Povolni (46:17.874)
Yeah.

Paul Povolni (46:24.37)
Right.

Paul Povolni (46:39.237)
And so did that chip away anything or did that just add something?

Kyree Oliver (46:43.69)
Yeah, I haven't felt like anything has been disrupted. This is a question I got a lot. It was like, you know, did it did it shake up your world when your kid was born? So yes. And I think it was in addition to what I was already trying to prepare myself for. You can't learn all of it, right? The books, the everything. But again, I've been dreaming about my children since I was 19. And it was eight years later that I actually had my first child. So I've just been so focused on this. I've been so thoughtful about this for so long.

Paul Povolni (47:04.05)
Yeah.

Kyree Oliver (47:12.93)
that it was adding on top of. It was a new lens. It was a new perspective. It was a, I see it this way now and I can't go back. But there wasn't any, you know, I thought this about this thing. And as soon as she was here, I immediately had the 180 the way that I thought. I think it was just a deepening of multiple areas. Yeah.

Paul Povolni (47:16.183)
Right, right.

Paul Povolni (47:32.017)
Right, right, right. Well, and I think that's what marriage and I think that's what kids does to you. I think, you know, when I met my wife, I, and we got married, it was like, man, I don't think I could love anybody as much as I love her. Like, this is new level of love that it was like, I would die for this woman. Like, I would, whatever. And then, you know, kids come along.

Kyree Oliver (47:51.501)
Yeah.

Kyree Oliver (47:55.534)
usually.

Paul Povolni (48:00.049)
And you're like, I didn't know I had any more love left. But then there's like a level of love that you're like, oh my goodness, I didn't know I could feel this. You know, and then you're like, and then when they cry and when they hurt, you're like, oh man, I wish I could take every bit of pain away from them.

Kyree Oliver (48:03.135)
Oh my gosh.

Kyree Oliver (48:13.898)
Yeah. Also, why am I in physical pain? Because they're crying. That was a weird one, especially with dad. Cause you hear about that with moms, but like I, even now I explained to people, I don't once since either my children have been born, have I spent more than two nights away from them. I don't go on trips for more than two nights. If clients book me to come out to wherever they are, this is why I don't go overseas for clients. We all do everything over zoom. But when I fly out to a client here in the States, I'm back within 48 hours.

Paul Povolni (48:16.633)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Paul Povolni (48:43.291)
Yeah.

Kyree Oliver (48:43.454)
or inside of 72 hours. I don't spend more than two nights away because it does physically hurt to be away from my kids for that long. I don't like it.

Paul Povolni (48:51.697)
It is, it's a massive shift, I think, in perspective and maturity. And it is, and it pushes you as a man, you know, beyond what you thought was even a thing. Like you can read about it, you can watch the movies, you can, you know, whatever. But it's until you experience that and, and go all in, you, there's no way to even imagine what that's like.

Kyree Oliver (49:05.643)
Yeah.

Paul Povolni (49:16.805)
You know, it's such a different thing. And so I think, I think for the work that you do with men, there are certain things that they're just going to have to jump in on, right? They're going to have to trust you and say, I don't get it. I might've read the books on it. I might've studied this. I might've whatever, but until they jump all in on it, it's going to be hard for them to figure out how much it can impact their life, right?

Kyree Oliver (49:42.654)
Yeah. And the resistance comes with those head smacks too. A lot of times there's a lot of times where I'll, I'll be explaining something to a client or he'll be dealing with something and I'll, I'll explain to him, here's my, here's how I would think about it, knowing that he's not going to go do it and that he's going to go do the exact opposite. And then I'm going to get a message one day at 10 PM going off. I kind of messed up, man. What do I do from here? And that is just as necessary as the things that they do listen to me about. And sometimes maybe even more impactful.

Paul Povolni (50:04.082)
Hahaha.

Kyree Oliver (50:11.71)
A lot of times they do. I have one client who's very, very close with me. He's become a genuine, like a little brother to me. Um, he's close to my wife. He loves my children lives here in Arizona with me as well. Um, that we'll go through it every once in a while where it'll be like, I'll see a pattern coming up and be like, Hey man, you see the pattern. It's happening. Like it's starting. This is where it starts every time it it's happening. And I'll get that. No, no, no. It's good this time. I'm okay this time. I got it under control this time.

Paul Povolni (50:30.547)
Yeah.

Paul Povolni (50:38.693)
Right.

Kyree Oliver (50:39.294)
And it'll, it'll carry on for a few weeks. We'll still do our, our coaching sessions, but they'll feel more surface level. There's a level that he won't allow me into when we're talking to one another. And that's when I know it's happening. So I'll just make sure in every interaction, I just mentioned it. Hey man, are you sure about this? Hey man, are you sure about this? And I'll get the yes and I'll get the yes. And then inevitably I'll get the phone call. All right, man, I just went too far. This is too much this time.

Paul Povolni (51:04.008)
Ha ha

Kyree Oliver (51:05.83)
You know, here's where the pattern I'm seeing it. Here's how I was able to justify it to myself. And I think that's the big thing is especially when you're smart, especially when you're so capable, you can justify just about anything to yourself. And that's where I have to stay on my toes is being able to articulate the way that I view these things is because I work with incredibly capable and incredibly intelligent men, sometimes I'm just having to out argue them with some of the things that they so badly want to believe. And I like it and I enjoy it and I'm good at it. Thankfully.

Paul Povolni (51:10.278)
Yeah.

Paul Povolni (51:30.001)
Yeah.

Kyree Oliver (51:35.362)
But I know that there's some of the times where no matter how well I articulate this, you have to run into a wall and I'm going to be here for you when it happens. So I'm going to allow it to happen. I think this is a way that I view parenting. I'm noticing it with my son. He's liking to fall head first off of anything that he can climb on and having my wife, like take a second before she goes and rushes over to him. Or when he falls down, we just start clapping and

Paul Povolni (51:44.659)
Right.

Paul Povolni (51:53.505)
Hahaha

Kyree Oliver (52:02.258)
Nine and a half times out of ten. He just stands up starts clapping for himself and has no idea why But he needed that like he needs the space to take the tumble and be able to pick himself back up and then have the guidance Or have the person who's willing to be there if you do need some extra help or support Yeah

Paul Povolni (52:06.111)
I'm sorry.

Yeah.

Paul Povolni (52:18.917)
Yeah. And I think, I think all guys are like that. You know, um, they, they'll, they won't listen until they have no other choice, you know, and, and we fight it. We fight that allowing somebody into our space, you know, but with what you do, you know, you put a little Kyrie on their shoulder that says, I'm telling you, don't do this. You know, speaking in their ear, you know, and so what, without sharing names, um, what's being the biggest transformation that you've seen in working with men with somebody.

Kyree Oliver (52:37.91)
Talk about this a lot. We talk about that.

Kyree Oliver (52:51.175)
I think this guy who's a very good friend of mine here, he's been my longest standing client. He's been my closest client. He lived with me for about a year here in Arizona as well. He won't mind. Nick Verge. He's a copywriter. He's on Facebook as well. He's I think five years younger than I am. But what we see oftentimes now that we get to laugh at is representations of

And he'll message me or we'll interact with somebody and he'll go, dude, this would have been me if we hadn't found each other. Like I can see what I would have become. And we talk about it and like, we just talk about it quite often of, of what would have happened otherwise and where would we have gone and where would like, what would you have become if you were left to some of the mentors that you had around some of the people even locally here.

Paul Povolni (53:26.718)
Wow.

Kyree Oliver (53:42.77)
that offer guidance and mentorship, whose lives have just completely fallen apart in the last, you know, since we met them, not having gotten the right guidance from early on. We met when he was 20 and he's 24, almost 25 now. Without that right guidance, here's what I would have become. And seeing those representations of that just give us both so much gratitude. Cause I also learned so much with him being so close to me. One, I partially moved him in to say,

this is now a non-negotiable for me. The things that I'm talking about, I just have to be. Or else I'm going to have this 20 year old kid who lives with me that goes, hey man, you said that thing online, but what's this? Hey, here's that, but what are you doing? And to me, that's a good representation again of the questions my son's going to have for me one day. Hey dad, I saw this YouTube video or this Facebook and you said this, but what happened over here? What is this other thing that is unexplained?

Paul Povolni (54:24.427)
Right, wow.

Paul Povolni (54:33.534)
Yeah.

Paul Povolni (54:38.866)
Right.

Kyree Oliver (54:40.978)
And it made me hold a very hard standard for myself because he was inquisitive. He was willing to ask difficult questions. And that navigating of that allowed, one, some massive growth for him because he got an opportunity that nobody's ever going to get again. I didn't have a wife and children when he moved in with me. The amount that it would cost for me to allow somebody to move into my house now, like another man to move into my house, oh my gosh, would be insane.

Paul Povolni (54:48.358)
Yeah.

Paul Povolni (54:56.697)
Yeah.

Kyree Oliver (55:10.018)
But we got a unique experience with one another and he benefited and so did I. And I was able to watch closely this growth pattern of this man who I believe is becoming a good man. I also saw the, the ability for the other side. I saw the, and I think I saw this in him when we first met each other was, he was at this precipice. He was at this place where I can go down the degenerate entrepreneur, I'm just gonna make a bunch of money.

screw everybody else, I don't want people close to me. We had this actually very interesting conversation. It was one of our, maybe our first 10 coaching sessions when he was first living with me. And he had this concept, and again, I'm not divulging anything that he hasn't talked about publicly as well. He had this concept, I wanna be the Michael Jordan of copywriting, and I wanna be the greatest of all time and fuck everybody else on the way up there. And like that was part of the greatest of all time as I also have to say.

fuck everybody else on the way up. And I have to abandon relationships and I have to not be around people and I have to seclude myself and I have to be willing to and sometimes like romanticize the fact that I'm hated by other people in order to become the greatest. And.

Paul Povolni (56:22.793)
Where do you think you got that from?

Kyree Oliver (56:25.83)
I think it was a lot of the people he was consuming. I think it was a lot of the content that he was consuming that was, you know, be great at all costs and then you can become a, possibly become a good person later. And I think that this, this story really embeds itself, especially when you see how difficult it is to maintain solid relationships or if people leave your life or if people let you down, it's very easy to get those, again, those layers of jadedness on top of you that say I'm just going to distance myself from people. I'm going to protect myself.

Paul Povolni (56:36.08)
Yeah.

Paul Povolni (56:51.293)
Right.

Kyree Oliver (56:55.81)
But what I think people don't realize is if I'm protecting myself from the negative, I'm also guarding myself from the positive. And so I'd let him weave this whole tale about I'm gonna become the Michael Jordan of copyrighters and slash and burn and everybody else sucks and this is terrible. And I said one thing to him, and I've used this with multiple clients now, thankfully. I said, I know what you lay in bed and think about at night. I let him go for 10 minutes on his whole spiel about I'm gonna be the greatest of all time and all this. And I said,

Paul Povolni (57:02.599)
Right, right.

Paul Povolni (57:09.746)
Yeah.

Paul Povolni (57:22.194)
Hahaha

Kyree Oliver (57:24.27)
I know what you think about at night and that's why I can't believe you. That's why I don't believe you when you're talking about this. I think this sounds good. I think you've well articulated your point and I think your point sucks because I know what you lay in bed and think about. And I said, in fact, I know what you laid in bed last night and thought about. How scary is that? And I wasn't watching you. You were all the way down the hall. And he goes, what do you mean? And my wife and I just started dating at the time and she was in Arizona and she was visiting, I think. Yeah.

Paul Povolni (57:36.395)
Yeah.

Paul Povolni (57:42.566)
Yeah.

Kyree Oliver (57:53.706)
moved in yet, but she was visiting us right now. And I said, when we were watching our dumb TV show and you were making fun of us last night, and then we get up and I go cook in the kitchen and we're joking and we're playing around and we're having fun and you're pretending to pay attention to the TV, I kept seeing you looking over at us. I kept seeing you notice us. And I knew that there was some draw. I knew that there was a...

Paul Povolni (58:14.289)
Oh wow.

Kyree Oliver (58:21.142)
Man, I want that. Now, again, he was 20. Like, you can't expect that of yourself at that age. It's something you have to grow into. It's something I had to grow into. But I know when you laid in bed at night, and be honest with me, did you think about becoming the Michael Jordan of copywriting? Or did you think about having fun cooking, dancing, with the future woman that you're going to spend the rest of your life with? And immediate tears. I didn't even need an answer from him. Because I know.

Paul Povolni (58:27.705)
Yeah.

Paul Povolni (58:45.406)
Wow.

Paul Povolni (58:50.494)
Yeah.

Kyree Oliver (58:50.546)
I can see it, like I can see that you want this. Everything else is your defense mechanism saying, I don't know if I can have it. So I have to pretend like I don't want it. But I can see, I can see that in you. And I've, again, I've used it with other men that I've worked with. I can see what you actually want. I can also see why you don't feel deserving of it and why you have to attempt to replace it with a cheap replica. And I don't want that for you. I want you to have the real thing. Yeah.

Paul Povolni (58:59.622)
Yeah, wow.

Paul Povolni (59:16.809)
Well, and it's, it's filling that void with other stuff to distract you from the reality. And like you said, you know, when you're laying, laying in bed at night, you know, what are you thinking about? And when it comes down to it and it was, he was distracting himself with all these other things that made him delay the thinking about the thing that he actually, his heart wanted.

Kyree Oliver (59:21.588)
always.

Kyree Oliver (59:32.578)
Of course.

Kyree Oliver (59:38.818)
Well, that's who we are. When everybody else is stripped away, when I don't have the social media to post on, when I don't have the people to give me attention, I am who I am when I'm sitting in silence with myself. That is who I am at my core. And I just want to speak to that person. I know that you've had to cover him up with all these other things, but if you don't give anybody else access to him, give the person that you're going to for guidance access to who that person is. Because then that's something we can work off.

Paul Povolni (59:56.07)
Yeah.

Paul Povolni (01:00:07.961)
Yeah. Well, and I think it goes back to even hustle culture, which is similar to what he was, you know, on about is, is when it comes to the hustle culture, and it's not talked about as much now, there's maybe other terms for it, but there's, it comes with a price tag, like some, something or someone pays for the hustle. You know, and you've got to decide on.

Kyree Oliver (01:00:14.99)
For sure.

Paul Povolni (01:00:31.525)
Are you willing to pay that price, you know, and is it worth the price? Because when it comes down to it and you've achieved, you're the Michael Jordan of copywriting and you look back and you're like, man, a lot of stuff paid the price for that and it was not worth it. It was not worth the price that I, that I paid for it. It was not worth the sacrifice because here I am the Michael Jordan of copywriting. And I'm at home.

Kyree Oliver (01:00:40.065)
Yeah.

Paul Povolni (01:00:58.297)
laying on a couch by myself, you know, dreaming of Kyrie's family.

Kyree Oliver (01:00:59.374)
I love you.

And that's what I said. I said you'll end up successful and alone, even if you have a bunch of people around me. That's the difficulty is you'll feel wildly alone, surrounded by people. And that is the deepest pit that you can possibly be in. I have everybody and I have everything and I have nobody and nothing. Because then once you have all that stuff and you realize that void still wasn't filled, you're then left with even deeper despair than you had when you didn't have anything. And I think that that's a really difficult one. I think this is why it's also important.

Paul Povolni (01:01:05.885)
Yeah.

Paul Povolni (01:01:19.974)
Yeah.

Kyree Oliver (01:01:32.322)
For me, I show my life genuinely. I've only had a few clients that haven't been over to my house. Even my clients overseas, I have clients in Australia, three different clients in Australia who have stayed the night at my house at least once. I show my life because I think a lot of successful men, quote unquote successful men, don't show what is actually suffering for the success. Like you said, I think a lot of times there are, I call them hidden transactions. Every time I'm saying yes to something, I'm saying no to something else.

Paul Povolni (01:01:45.427)
Yeah.

Kyree Oliver (01:02:02.206)
And a lot of times we don't notice until the public divorce happens. We don't notice until the guy makes the post about his alcoholism or about his suicide attempts or his suicide, like, um, like thoughts or whatever. We don't see that the cost of what's happening on the way to those posts. We see the post and Oh, I'm all better now. And we're great.

Paul Povolni (01:02:23.888)
Right.

Kyree Oliver (01:02:27.882)
And then I start noticing that there's a cycle for a lot of these people. It's every two or three years. It's every 18 months that this guy is back in this space where I can't handle it anymore. Here it all is. I suck. I haven't been actually working on this. Okay. Now I'm all better. And now we're a lot of times we're back in the cycle. Now, hopefully, and some of them have been able to heal it, but a lot of times it becomes a cycle of like successful men won't actually show what is being transacted for their success.

Paul Povolni (01:02:55.038)
Right.

Kyree Oliver (01:02:55.058)
And I find that to be a calling for me to be way more public about my personal life. My mother, my grandmother, my preschool teacher, my old pastor, my wife, everybody who could possibly go like, Hey, this guy is not what he's saying is on my Facebook. You see Annette Hastings posting on my Facebook. That's my grandma. You see Christine Ardell. That's my mom. You see the people who are closest to me genuinely out here. If I wasn't this, it would have been said by now.

Paul Povolni (01:03:11.641)
Yeah.

Paul Povolni (01:03:18.988)
Yeah.

Paul Povolni (01:03:25.173)
Yeah. Well, I think that, yeah. And I think that's, that's sincerity and that's integrity, you know, integrity where everything in your life is consistent and sincerity. You know, I once heard about the, the idea of without wax, you know, that they would make pottery and if something, you know, if it broke, they would put it together and fill the cracks with wax. And the only way to reveal if it was sincere is to hold it up to the light and see, you know, is it at.

Kyree Oliver (01:03:25.79)
I think it's important.

Kyree Oliver (01:03:46.977)
Yeah.

Kyree Oliver (01:03:53.078)
where it's shown through. Yeah.

Paul Povolni (01:03:54.213)
Yeah, is it as real as it's pretending to be? And I think that's where, you know, integrity and sincerity in your life are so important when it comes to being a man, because, you know, your kids are going to see your Facebook, they're going to see your Instagram, you know, not, not immediately, maybe five years from now. And they're like, yeah, that wasn't him at all, you know? Um, and so I think that is important because it, it flows into everything you do, it flows into business, it flows into your family. Um, and if you don't have that sincerity and then integrity,

Kyree Oliver (01:04:12.075)
Yeah.

Paul Povolni (01:04:24.337)
You know, it's going to come, it's going to, it's going to be revealed at some point, you know.

Kyree Oliver (01:04:27.182)
Of course. Of course. And some people keep these things separate for good reasons. And I do genuinely believe that. The business and the personal life, they're separated for certain reasons or maybe some for religious reasons, right? Like my Muslim friends don't showcase their wives on their social media the way that I do. And I respect that. And I understand that. There are the massive amounts of people though, who hide the things that they're embarrassed of, who hide the things that would otherwise show.

this doesn't look the way that this man is pretending it looks or wanting you to believe it looks. And I just, again, I just, I think I saw so much of it coming into this space. Again, I was 19 when I started working at personal development events and watching people speaking on stages, all that. And I think I just saw early on, like, the cost of these people and what they were hiding in their personal lives and just like even their day-to-day lives, people hiding like massive addiction problems. People hiding.

Paul Povolni (01:05:01.906)
Right.

Paul Povolni (01:05:17.638)
Yeah.

Kyree Oliver (01:05:23.802)
whole other families that they've had. I've seen a bunch of stuff aired out on Facebook in my 10 years of being on the platform. I just saw so much of it where I was like, let's just remove all of that. Again, if I wasn't this, my wife would have said something, if not publicly to me. Cause I also find, especially this is one of the big things that when working with women was their boyfriends who were, or husbands who had public brands.

Paul Povolni (01:05:29.737)
Yeah.

Paul Povolni (01:05:40.413)
Yeah.

Kyree Oliver (01:05:51.278)
listening to what their thoughts were about the things that he was posting or, you know, their contention with like, he's posting this and this is the man that I'm getting off screen. And how do I wrestle with that? And how do I bring it up to him? And how do I talk to him about it? And what I realized in talking to them was that all of the wives and girlfriends who don't have the me in their lives, they don't have anybody to talk to, or they just talk to their girlfriend group, and then they just stay quiet about it. But nobody is encouraging the conversation with him and saying like,

Part of my job is your biggest support system as the woman you've chosen to spend your time with or sometimes your entire life with, is to sometimes help you hold up a mirror for yourself. Cause if nobody else is going to do it, who better than the person who for a lot of us is going to end up with your last name and having your children. And that's one of the biggest benefits that my wife has. Whenever I've had even small hiccups where she's been able to go like, hey babe, again, this is who you said you are, but this doesn't match.

Paul Povolni (01:06:32.158)
Right.

Paul Povolni (01:06:50.482)
Yeah.

Kyree Oliver (01:06:51.378)
or I heard you on that call, somebody asked you about somebody that you don't like, and instead of just saying, hey, you know, we've had a few disagreements, you've had to launch into what exactly happened. A person didn't need what happened. They just needed this small piece. The small piece was for them, the rest was for you. And is that something that, again, that you've said that you are, and I'm just lovingly holding up this mirror for you? And I just think a lot of people don't have that. In a male mentor, in the woman that they're with,

Paul Povolni (01:07:03.398)
Yeah.

Paul Povolni (01:07:17.96)
Yeah.

Kyree Oliver (01:07:21.554)
I think a lot of successful guys in order to keep their current rigid version of what this success looks like, they have to actively avoid people that are willing to hold that up for them.

Paul Povolni (01:07:31.969)
Right. And I think we all need that truth teller in our life. You know, that somebody that can say the thing, you know, that, uh, we might not want to hear. Yeah. And so I think that's where the value of, of coaching, um, having a spouse that can be truthful with you, that doesn't have to fear the wrath of, of you being confronted with truth. Um, you know, I think that's so valuable.

Kyree Oliver (01:07:40.266)
Yeah, even if it's brash. Yeah.

Kyree Oliver (01:07:56.45)
That's huge too. That's huge. I think that's why a lot of them avoid it too is what are the consequences? And I think there's a lot of feelings of unsafe to you too. Like a lot of these guys, and we all know some of them that are again, are the big successful whatever. And I know that they're emotionally volatile or I can tell just from their interactions with people that they're emotionally volatile. That's not the guy that, you know, your wife or your girlfriend feels comfortable going up to you and saying, hey, babe.

What the hell is this? What's going on? Because she may not trust her response or she may not trust that she's safe if you do get lit up about something. And that I genuinely still believe is the number one thing I provide for my wife is safety, emotional safety, maybe even more than physical safety. She feels safe here.

Paul Povolni (01:08:40.423)
Yeah.

Paul Povolni (01:08:45.089)
Yeah. And I think we're kind of in a bail culture where people are afraid that you'll bail on them. People are afraid, they're feeling insecurity. They're feeling that I cannot be myself. I don't always feel safe because people bail so quickly. They'll bail on a restaurant, they'll bail on a relationship, they'll bail on whatever. And I think the bail culture makes it

tough for people to be that honest because they just, you know, will they stay, you know, if I, if I tell them the truth, will they, will they still be around?

Kyree Oliver (01:09:19.19)
And if they leave, what ammunition will they have? I think that scares the hell out of people. What if I really open myself up to this person and they leave and now they've left with what I believe to be a piece of me that I may not trust them to be responsible with? I think that's a scary one.

Paul Povolni (01:09:21.561)
Yeah.

Paul Povolni (01:09:29.893)
Yeah.

Paul Povolni (01:09:35.265)
Yeah. And sometimes that bailing is physically and sometimes it's emotionally. Sometimes it's, you know, they're there, but they're not, you know? And so I think, you know, having, having that relationship and having that authenticity and being able to share, you know, what, what you think and what you feel and feel safe, I think is so critical for relationships, whether, you know, it's relationships with other men, whether it's relationships with your loved ones, I think we've got to have that as part of our life or elsewhere.

We're going to just pent it all up. And like your, your post said, you know, if you don't heal it, if you don't deal with it, you'll bleed on people that had nothing to do with it.

Kyree Oliver (01:10:12.226)
Yeah. And again, with more power, the more people you're allowed to bleed on before somebody says, what the fuck you're bleeding on me. And a lot of times, like by then you've just broken so many relationships. You've caused irreparable damage to certain people in your life or the things around you or your children or whatever. And so that's why, like the more successful you get, the more important it is for you to take stock of yourself, because the less likely a lot of people around you are going to be saying, hey, what the fuck?

Paul Povolni (01:10:17.704)
Yeah.

Paul Povolni (01:10:41.585)
Right. Well, and I think, I mean, you see that happen with celebrities. You see that happen with people that, um, benefit from your existence, you know? Um, and suddenly you start surrounding yourself with the people that benefit from your existence. And then they're too afraid to say anything because their income, their, their security, their whatever is, is tied to you. And so the truth tellers stop telling the truth because they've,

Kyree Oliver (01:10:58.126)
Yeah.

Paul Povolni (01:11:11.093)
there's a price to be paid, you know.

Kyree Oliver (01:11:14.186)
Yeah, even if it's just perceived. Cause that's the, I find that, I find that I run into leaders who wish that they had somebody to tell them the truth. And what we actually uncover is that you haven't created a culture where people can tell you the truth. So it's not always that they don't want to hear the truth. Sometimes it is that they haven't built a culture with the people around them that made those people feel safe to say, I can come to you with this, or I can come and ask you, you know, about this.

Paul Povolni (01:11:16.36)
Yeah.

Kyree Oliver (01:11:43.662)
Sometimes it genuinely is on accident. I don't think everybody's just not looking for the truth I think sometimes they have done a poor job of making people feel emotionally safe Around them to bring difficult things to them Yeah

Paul Povolni (01:11:57.181)
Right. And so for the, for the young guy that, um, you know, he's like, man, this is really resonating with me. This is really, I've got to make some changes. Um, but where do I start? Like, what's the first thing I do? Of course, engaging in you as a coach, I think would, would benefit anybody listening to this that feels they're in that space of, of needing somebody. But what, what would you tell that person that is like, yeah, this is, and I need to make some changes. What's the first thing that you tell them to do?

Kyree Oliver (01:12:25.655)
Yeah.

Kyree Oliver (01:12:29.126)
I think number one is find somebody in your personal life whose approach to life you agree with. Not necessarily every single thing about them is perfect, but the way that they think about life you go, that's admirable. I like that. I want to be around that and start talking to those people. Get close to those people. Do again with this client did, this now really good friend of mine did with me. He met me at a networking event and just persisted. He was like, Hey man, can I buy you a cigar? Hey man, can I take you out to lunch? Hey man, can I do this?

and ended up ingratiating himself with me. He's actually now really close with one of my mentors as well. And just finding the people again, whose approach to life you agree with, start collecting those people. So it's not always inside of, you know, paying somebody to coach you, paying somebody to do this. Sometimes it's just finding the right golden nuggets of people and saying, I'm going to spend my time with them. I'm going to spend my time just absorbing who they are and how they operate.

Paul Povolni (01:13:10.771)
Yeah.

Paul Povolni (01:13:28.917)
Man, that is so good. This has been an awesome conversation, man. I've absolutely loved this. And I do believe that, um, you know, there's a lot of moments and a lot of things that people can take from what we've been talking about that if they just apply it, man, just if they take action on just one good idea, it could literally change the whole trajectory of their life and the leg, their legacy, and not only their, their future and their destiny, but their legacy could, could totally be changed just by taking.

even one of the things that you've shared today. And so I really appreciate you being transparent and honest and really sharing what you've shared. For somebody that wants to be a part of your world, they want to, you've really resonated with them. They're like, yeah, I want somebody like Kyrie in my life. I need somebody like that. What's the best way to engage with you or to be a part of your world?

Kyree Oliver (01:13:59.34)
Yeah.

Kyree Oliver (01:14:16.818)
Yeah, I would say easiest is probably I mean for friends on Facebook. I'm I know we have a lot of mutual friends on Facebook. Just Kyrie Oliver on Facebook. I'm at Kyrie on Instagram at Kyrie Oliver on Twitter. I would say that's the place to start. If you have questions, if man, when you said this, this is what I thought about. If you disagree with something, I say, please feel free to

Paul Povolni (01:14:44.787)
Yeah.

Kyree Oliver (01:14:46.294)
just be open about it and create a dialogue. I'm always open to dialogue. That's why I post my beliefs publicly for everybody to see and to pick apart and to do what they will with. And so yeah, I would say if people have questions or wanna reach out, please, Instagram, Facebook are probably gonna be the easiest ways. But yeah, just start a conversation.

Paul Povolni (01:14:54.15)
Yeah, yeah.

Paul Povolni (01:15:12.785)
Yeah. And then if you want to go beyond that, um, of course, you know, you're launching the course, um, by the time this, this podcast comes out, it'll probably be launched and available. And so, uh, connect with Kyrie on socials, uh, you know, check out his, uh, website links and, um, you know, be a part of that. I think, I think it is such a need in today's culture for young men, uh, to find, you know, good examples, good networks, good.

people to say, yeah, I want to be like them when I grow up, you know, and no matter what the age. And so, yeah, thank you for being on today. This has really been awesome.

Kyree Oliver (01:15:47.41)
No, thank you, man. I genuinely believe with podcasts and interviews, like it's only as good as what the person can pull out of you, because you just find the ones that are like they have the list of questions and that's it. And this feels like a genuine conversation. Feels like we're sitting at a lounge or something and just talking. Those are always my favorite because it just pulls something out of me that I don't always get to express publicly. So I appreciate you.

Paul Povolni (01:16:11.209)
Thank you so much. Have a great day. Take care.

Kyree Oliver (01:16:13.035)
Likewise, brother.