Heather Parady - Creator /Fractional COO

Creative Limits: How Restriction Fuels Innovation in Content Creation

In this insightful episode, Heather Parady, former mental health therapist turned trailblazing online entrepreneur, dives deep into the essence of creative transformation and the power of embracing one’s inner misfit.

Heather discusses her transition from therapy to entrepreneurship, revealing how overcoming personal and professional obstacles fueled her journey to empower unconventional leaders.

Discover the compelling story of how Heather leverages her unique perspective to help others scale their impact in the digital world.

Episode Highlights:

• Unconventional Journeys: Heather's shift from therapy to entrepreneurship, illustrating the courage in following one's true calling.
• Creative Restraints: How limitations can unexpectedly boost creativity and innovation in content creation.
• Community Impact: The importance of building a supportive community for 'out-of-the-box' thinkers.

Paul Povolni, the founder of Voppa Creative, has been a creative leader for over 30 years, with clients around the world. He’s led teams in creating award-winning branding and design as well as equipping his clients to lead with Clarity, Creativity and Culture.

Headsmack Website

Transcript

Paul Povolni (03:56.062)
Welcome to the Head Smacked podcast. My name is Paul Povolni and I am glad to have a misfit along for the ride today. This misfit is Heather Parady. Heather is a mental health therapist turned into an online entrepreneur. Uh, she helps out of the box thinkers and leaders bring their sources online to scale their impact. Heather, welcome to the Head Smacked podcast.

Heather Parady (04:17.772)
Thanks so much for having me. I love this whole misfit situation. This is, sounds like my people.

Paul Povolni (04:22.506)
This is your people and I love everything that you're doing. Heather got my attention through her videos and your videos are amazing. Your short form videos. I've seen them well produced, great content, super high value. And I absolutely love what you're doing. And when I saw those, I thought, well, this, I need to talk to Heather and bring her on to not only talk about short form video, but also to talk about a little bit about your origin story.

Heather Parady (04:32.6)
Thank you.

Paul Povolni (04:48.658)
As I read, you started off as a mental health therapist. Tell me a little bit about your origin story. Where did it start? What led you into therapy and what led you out of it?

Heather Parady (05:00.18)
Well, let's stick with the word misfit. I had somebody the other day tell me, I said something along the lines of struggling when I was younger and they're like, and I was like, what's that? And they're like, I just assumed you were the type that was like popular and a cheerleader and blah, confident. Like you're one of those people. And I'm like, sit down and let's have a conversation because I have

Paul Povolni (05:11.276)
Ha ha

Heather Parady (05:26.492)
built confidence and I've learned how to be comfortable in my skin. But growing up and I'm getting to the therapy thing, I was homeschooled my entire life. I really struggled in school. My education stopped at a very early age due to just some issues in my family and just not doing school, quite frankly. I lived pretty isolated and really insecure. I also grew up in like heavy, heavy religion that kind of taught me that

Paul Povolni (05:46.379)
Yeah.

Heather Parady (05:55.944)
not one person, but just what I heard was that we were supposed to live small and my role was really going to be more into a ministry perspective and being a wife to some pastor or something like that. Not that anything, any of that's wrong, but it was just a very, I already had poor confidence just from some things, like I said, the education component and so forth, but then also marrying that with...

Feeling like God's plan for me was to be a martyr pretty much there was just this really weird narrative around Just like unworthiness and you know, my life is nothing and I think that's a beauty There's a beautiful essence to it that a lot of Christians want to you know, a beautiful thing but it was detrimental for me and That kind of led me towards ministry off the bat. So I wanted to go in full-time ministry I did a ministry training program for several years

Paul Povolni (06:27.063)
Yeah.

Paul Povolni (06:41.591)
Yeah.

Heather Parady (06:50.572)
That was the heartbeat of everything that I did was God, Jesus, Bible, ministry, get everybody saved. Long story short, some stuff went down where I just kind of had a hard fall from church and religion, not God, but just not really buying into all of that anymore, which I'm brushing over that piece. But the whole ministry thing was still there where I wanted to help people. And so the next, for me, logical thing of, okay, well, if you're not going to be a pastor,

Paul Povolni (07:07.716)
Right. Yeah.

Heather Parady (07:18.264)
be a therapist because that's kind of like a pastor, right? So did the therapy thing.

Paul Povolni (07:19.354)
Yeah. Right. So how was that really? Cause for some people therapy and religion and faith almost seem like that's, you don't need that. Just, you know, just pray, just talk to Jesus and everything will be okay.

Heather Parady (07:37.788)
Yeah, when I was in graduate school, I was actually in a sermon where they were literally yelling into the microphone that you don't need a therapist, you need Jesus. And I'm like, this is the most unhealthy message ever. Yeah. I mean, it depends. It depends on the folks. I mean, some people think that it's a sign of weakness. And if you're living correctly, you're not going to have issues. And my personal beliefs now with God is that like everything is connected. And so.

Paul Povolni (07:48.731)
Yeah.

Heather Parady (08:05.34)
therapy is a tool and a way to some people have a gift to see into you and ask the best questions and it's like a natural remedy medicine, you know, but yeah.

Paul Povolni (08:16.134)
Yeah. And did you wrestle with that decision? Like, is that, is that a legit thing to reach out for? Yeah.

Heather Parady (08:20.936)
Sure. Well, I was telling somebody the other day that it's only been recently that I've come to terms with my calling, my purpose right now is God's quote, will for me. And I'm living in my highest calling because for several years, I would have thought that I had abandoned God's calling on my life because I wasn't in ministry. And now I just don't believe any of that shit anymore. It's like.

Paul Povolni (08:48.457)
Yeah.

Heather Parady (08:49.332)
I have such a wider view, but it was very hard. I felt like I was disappointing people. I had people messaging me feeling like I had fallen away, like ridiculous, like, because I'm going to school to be a therapist, you know what I mean? Like, wow, that's pretty dark, you know? But it's weird, it's weird the whole, the mental hold that some of these institutions can have on you. And when you get healed and you look back, you think that's ridiculous, but it feels so real in the moment. Yeah.

Paul Povolni (08:57.086)
Wow. Yeah. Right. Yeah.

Paul Povolni (09:14.334)
Right, right, right. And so that journey led you into therapy. How long did you do that before you moved to other things as a misfit?

Heather Parady (09:26.272)
I got my license, I got two job offers, and I quit. So not long. Not long Paul, not long. I was in the waiting room to go to the interview and I remember tearing up and crying. I went into the interview and cried because I didn't want to be there. And I still got the job, which was awesome. So they must have been desperate AF, you know, hire some crying girl.

Paul Povolni (09:34.86)
Wow.

Paul Povolni (09:51.557)
hahahaha

Heather Parady (09:53.268)
They called me and said, I got the job and I cried again. And my husband was like, most people don't cry when they get job offers. But I knew in my gut that I wanted to build something on my own. Um, I just have that weird nudge. I've tried being an employee multiple times and I'm not an entrepreneur. I've, I've come to terms with that. I'm a creator. I have an entrepreneurial tendencies, but I don't think about.

Paul Povolni (10:07.316)
Yeah.

Paul Povolni (10:16.236)
Yeah.

Heather Parady (10:19.452)
eating money and making money and money, money. I think about making, making. Entrepreneurship has just afforded me the flexibility to create, if that makes sense. So yeah, I quit like almost immediately, had a mental breakdown because I turned away money and we needed the money at the time. Young family.

Paul Povolni (10:32.129)
Yeah.

Paul Povolni (10:38.303)
Yeah.

Heather Parady (10:41.1)
paid out of pocket for graduate school. My husband sacrificed so much to put me through it and he was in the military at the time, like not making a ton of money. So here I am, not a great time to start a business, right? But Lord Jesus, I'm so glad I did.

Paul Povolni (10:53.163)
Yeah, yeah.

Yeah. And so, so you wrestled with, you know, thinking that therapy was the way you wanted to go and then deciding at the end, like, actually it's not, this is not who I am, this is not what I want to be. And so you launched into being a creator. Uh, what was that like? What was the first thing that you kind of launched into? Cause it's an interesting discussion of, you know, I've talked to several folks about the difference between an entrepreneur and a business owner and you've introduced a new

Heather Parady (11:12.577)
Okay.

Paul Povolni (11:25.082)
realm of creator. Talk to me a little bit about that. Was that the first thing you ventured into or what was the first thing you ventured into after leave in therapy?

Heather Parady (11:32.44)
So I had a pretty successful photography business in grad school. I ran that for about five years. I mean, it wasn't making millions of dollars, but I was traveling all over different states. I was constantly booked. I had a really great clientele and it wasn't because my opinion that I was a fantastic photographer. I knew how to build a client base and how to market. I was pretty good at that.

And so when I got out of graduate school and decided, hey, I'm not going to become a therapist, I was thinking, okay, what are the tools in my hand? What are the things that I know how to do? And photography taught me editing. I was very comfortable with visual elements of stuff. I had just recently started a podcast on my own. So I had these skills that I had developed and I just started freelancing. I remember turning down the job offer. I kid you not, I kid you not.

Paul Povolni (12:22.645)
Ha ha.

Heather Parady (12:22.816)
Put in the email, I hit send, I'm sitting there crying, my husband's on the phone, I'm like, I'm so stupid. Ding, right after that, swear to God, I got an email from a lady named Linda. I barely knew Linda, but Linda said, hey Heather, do you edit podcasts? I need some help. I said, I sure do, Linda, absolutely. Sorry, Linda, I kind of figured out how to do it by editing your podcast, but it was just like a series of that of saying yes to things and skill stacking and building up.

Paul Povolni (12:41.752)
Right.

Heather Parady (12:51.124)
It was usually all in the creative element. So it was like podcasting, social media stuff. It was all media creative related. I didn't love everything and it wasn't something that I was gonna do for, I knew it wasn't gonna do for the rest of my life, but again, it afforded me the freedom to figure out what I wanted to do next.

Paul Povolni (13:10.922)
Yeah. And I think that for a lot of us is the, the learning and the creativity sometimes comes from the necessity of doing something. And so with you, you know, doing the editing, somebody else's podcast, you figured stuff out pretty quickly and realize that you're good at it. You actually did it well. Um, especially with launching your own podcast as well. And so when it comes to, you know, the creative part of you,

Heather Parady (13:21.368)
Totally totally

Heather Parady (13:28.44)
100%.

Paul Povolni (13:38.747)
Talk a little bit about creative restraint. What is creative restraint and what does that mean to you?

Heather Parady (13:44.348)
Recently, so we fast forward that was seven, eight years ago. I don't remember. Fast forward skill stacking over and over again. Eventually I'm out of the freelance space. Now have a agency. We work in digital product development right now with folks and I've always still been creating on the side. So I just had somebody call me the other day, a creative director and he's like,

Heather, how do you make a full-time living as a content creator? I said, I'm not making a full-time living as a content creator. People assume that. Now, granted, I've had a lot of cool clients come from my content. I've had four speaking gigs this year from my content. Stuff's coming from my content, but I still am not making a full-time living off my content. I have a business, and I want people to know that because that's the reality for a lot of creators, and that's okay.

It doesn't matter. So all that to say, you know, we're running a really cool agency. I have a lot of fun with it. It's still not my number one passion. Creativity still is. So I've been consistently making ever since I left that job interview. Now, last year I kind of got to a point of frustration where I was experiencing success in podcasting. I've had, you know, top ranking shows. I've done really well with that.

social media side, I haven't been able to figure out my voice in my lane. And I was like, I have been consistent. You know what I mean? Like, I don't know many people who are as consistent as I am. Saturday nights, I eat dinner at this desk and I edit and I make things and I've been doing it for years. I barely miss a thousand plus interviews between all my shows. I've put out hundreds of videos. I've done the work.

that Gary Vee says to do, at what point does this work? Or am I just not good? You know what I mean? Which there's something there, it's a whole other conversation. All that to say to your point of creative restriction, last July I got mad and I had been making a lot of videos, trying different series and I said, you know what? I am going to sit my ass in a blue chair that I have in my office.

Paul Povolni (15:38.844)
Yeah.

Paul Povolni (15:43.501)
Yeah.

Heather Parady (16:07.668)
and I'm gonna do, I always said I would never do this, but a face to camera series. And I'm not gonna let myself get up from this chair until I figure out what I'm trying to say. So I was being a pouty ass little baby, but what I didn't realize is that there is this tool that creatives use a lot. And

Paul Povolni (16:11.096)
Mm-hmm.

Paul Povolni (16:23.236)
Wow.

Paul Povolni (16:28.118)
Ha ha ha.

Heather Parady (16:36.2)
Rick Rabin talks about it in the creative act, and if you start paying attention, you'll hear it more and more, and it's creative restriction. So when you're overwhelmed with a lot of things to do, limit yourself intentionally to something that's almost painful, because then it forces like a creative genius to come out of you. And so for me right now, it's been forcing myself to sit in this chair and tell stories in 60 seconds.

Paul Povolni (16:53.218)
Mm-hmm.

Heather Parady (17:02.568)
And I'm not going to necessarily do that forever, but it's been interesting to see how I've grown and how it's working.

Paul Povolni (17:06.336)
Yeah.

Paul Povolni (17:09.858)
Yeah. I love that. And well, and that's one thing that I've always said is limitations breed innovation. And so when you limit yourself, um, you get very innovative, you get very creative. And one of the reasons that I first got onto Twitter in 2007, you know, was because of the 140 character limitation. You know, I thought, well, what would it look like for me to try and say something that I find interesting that others might find interesting?

Heather Parady (17:27.992)
totally.

Paul Povolni (17:35.91)
with a limitation of trying to get it into 140 characters. And so I'd write something and then I have to edit it back and edit it back until I got it to a point where it still made sense, but it still had the strength of what I wanted to say. And so I love the creative restraint of setting yourself limitations and guidelines. Because creatives, when a creative hits a blank canvas with zero restrictions, with zero rules, it can be paralyzing.

Heather Parady (17:58.657)
Yeah.

Paul Povolni (18:05.422)
You find yourself just stuck and you're like, I have so many directions I could go in and I don't know which direction to go in. And they get paralyzed. They stare at a blank screen, the blank screen of death. And so sometimes creating that restriction and creating guidelines, you know, and saying I'm only going to do it this way, or I'm going to follow this path, or I'm going to put these restrictions on it actually is liberating. Right?

Heather Parady (18:30.488)
Totally.

Paul Povolni (18:31.358)
And so that's what you found with wanting to do these videos. And the videos are fantastic. Um, but that came out of a point of, of restraint. Um, what other ways, um, has that creative restraint helped you that you found after that aha moment of doing that?

Heather Parady (18:36.204)
Thank you.

Heather Parady (18:47.672)
So it's caused me to hyper fixate and study elements of the video that I'd never would have before because since I'm restricted to sitting in one spot and there's a general format I have, which is some kind of pop cultural reference hook at the beginning, I usually tie it into some other like a podcast or something and then I end it with a book. That's non-negotiable for me. So now it's freed up the rest of my brain.

Paul Povolni (19:15.948)
Yeah.

Heather Parady (19:16.568)
to hyperfixate on small little things that I didn't ever pay attention to before. So the first three words of the video, that's what I'm really obsessed with right now is figuring out how do I craft what I'm trying to say in one sentence down to three words. I've been really interested in retention editing. I used to like, you know, it's really.

popular right now to have like a lot of transitions and a lot of this and that. And I kind of did that for a few videos. If you scroll back a couple of months ago, I took a course and I was really excited and I was like, like there was all these flashes and all this stuff. And then now it's like, okay, now I'm curious what aids the story by adding it versus just me adding noise. So I know it sounds so ridiculous, but even the smallest thing of like, you know, I used to do up these jumps.

Paul Povolni (19:54.78)
Yeah, yeah.

Heather Parady (20:10.604)
that were really, really fast. And now my jump cuts are getting a lot, lot slower and thinking through what word needs to be emphasized. And it's always this little tiny micro ridiculous details that I never really would have started learning about unless I'd restricted myself and back to the skill stacking, I believe at some point, my soft goal right now is a hundred of these videos. And then I'm gonna reevaluate and try something maybe different. But,

Paul Povolni (20:11.818)
Right, right, yeah.

Paul Povolni (20:21.708)
Yeah.

Heather Parady (20:39.444)
going into my next projects, now that I've hyper-focused on these small little things, I can't wait to see what I can create with that new knowledge.

Paul Povolni (20:48.81)
Now, are you somehow measuring the difference that makes those little minor tweaks or are you just seeing, are you looking at it as the storytelling is what you're measuring?

Heather Parady (20:59.968)
Yeah, such a great question. I think I am looking at just retention overall. I get feedback from people. I've historically not been super good at that, but over the past few months, I've always felt like I've bothered people. Like if you're my friend or somebody I respect, what do you mind looking at this for me? But I just kind of got over that recently where I'm like now bothering people, like, hey, give me feedback, what do you think? So I use that as a measure. And then honestly, my own...

and trusting that a little bit more. Because I still go back to this sometimes where you feel like there's a right or a wrong way of doing things versus just like getting really still and quiet and tuning in and watching it and be like, would I like this? Would I follow this chick? And sometimes I'm like, no, this is annoying AF. You know, I can't stand this. But just having to develop my own taste as a creative, you know?

Paul Povolni (21:55.714)
Yeah. Well, and I think sometimes that's, you know, evaluating stuff is just common sense, like what, what do I feel about this? Um, what do I think about it? Now, some people don't care. Some people are like, it's, it could be irritating or frustrating or interesting or awkward or weird or whatever, but I think for creating your own content and understanding who you are and what you're about.

Heather Parady (22:04.273)
Yep.

Paul Povolni (22:20.478)
and looking at it and saying, you know, I'm kind of my audience, or at least I kind of feel I'm in that space that my audience might be. And what do I feel about it? How do I look at this? And that makes a difference. So with the videos that you're doing, and the people that you're helping, what are you doing next? What's your next thing that you're experimenting with?

Heather Parady (22:30.2)
totaling.

Heather Parady (22:44.676)
I want to produce more shorts, more films. I want to be a part of... It's interesting. I live close to Atlanta and I've been getting involved in the film scene there for the past few years. There's obviously a huge shift in traditional entertainment and what we're seeing on social right now.

Heather Parady (23:14.776)
creators are figuring out, you know, what is it going to look like over the next 25, 50 years, the entertainment media space, and then independent creators who are making their own stuff. So all that to say, I want to, my long-term goal is to eventually get paid to create where I can let go of my business and do this full-time. I want to start producing a little bit longer form content so it's not just on social. I don't...

Paul Povolni (23:27.841)
Yeah.

Heather Parady (23:44.676)
I could if I quit everything, I'd have to give up my job and everything to make YouTube videos. I could do that. I'm not emotionally there yet. That's going to be a huge sacrifice, but that's the realm I want to go into next is longer form. But stuff that's scripted, very kind of story oriented. I had somebody DM me the other day and they're like, we really wish you would take your videos and make them into four or five minutes.

Paul Povolni (23:54.658)
Ha ha

Heather Parady (24:11.788)
pieces that go a little bit more into your story and journey of figuring it out. And I'd love to do that. It'll happen.

Paul Povolni (24:18.346)
Now with the long form, is it long form teaching, training, inspiration, motivation, or is it more, um, you know, many movies, short movies type thing? What, what, what do you mean by the long form videos? What, what is that content?

Heather Parady (24:34.676)
I haven't figured out how to articulate this yet. I don't know if you've ever felt something in your heart and your spirit and you haven't able to put words to it just yet, but the reason that I do the videos that I do is I love spirituality, mental health. I love, I mean, back to the ministry stuff. I love wrestling with deeper topics and it annoys so many people. Like if you come to my house and you're playing contain with me, I'll be like, so what is your life's?

calling, what is your deepest wound and how do you think that plays into your strength? And you're like, girl, I'm just trying to eat a Dorito. Leave me alone. You know, that's me. So I've been trying to figure out, okay, how do I make that stuff interesting and entertaining and funny and light to be a bridge for folks who wouldn't normally talk about that to start thinking about other stuff? So if I started off, I wish I had it here.

Paul Povolni (25:12.428)
Yeah.

Heather Parady (25:31.864)
If I started off my video with Stephen King's book on writing, you might immediately dismiss it and be like, I'm not a writer. I don't care anything about Stephen King, whatever. But if I start it with a story about Lady Gaga and her mental health journey and blah, and then I wrap it to a core principle and truth from a cartole or whoever, then I might help be an entry drug to you to something that's changed my life, which is personal development and personal growth.

Paul Povolni (25:57.14)
Yeah.

Heather Parady (26:01.824)
So, God, I'm long-winded. 60 seconds storytelling. Girl, we won't shut up. Back to your original thing, the long-form content. I wanna figure out a creative way. No, I don't wanna do coaching, motivation. Somebody told me the other day, I was like, you're like a motivational speaker and I wanted to punch them in the face. I wanna figure out how do you bridge entertainment and spirituality and mental health and all that and not make it lame AF, but actually make something.

Paul Povolni (26:04.882)
No, this is amazing. Yeah.

Paul Povolni (26:20.373)
Nooo

Heather Parady (26:30.865)
It might be the same format I'm doing. It might be through storytelling movie type things, but that's my goal

Paul Povolni (26:37.426)
Yeah, yeah. And I think, you know, and I love the discussion about creativity. Um, cause I think creatives creatives, you know, people don't want to admit this, but creatives rule the world really. Cause everything that you are wearing, everything, your microphone, your clothing, your hairstyle, your shoes, you wear, I mean, everything a creative created and creatives have far more impact that people give them credit for.

Heather Parady (26:49.08)
I am freaking men. Yes, yes.

Paul Povolni (27:06.37)
for the good and for the bad, because the creatives are the storytellers, the creatives are the people that translate the complex into ways that people can understand it through stories, through song, through movies, through plays, through all of that stuff. And so there is a lot of power in creative, in the creative realm and in creatives as well. And so I love what you're doing even with the short form and the long form video is.

Heather Parady (27:07.072)
Yes. Amen.

Heather Parady (27:16.104)
Yes.

Paul Povolni (27:32.758)
you know, translating those ideas and all of the stuff that you've kind of stacked on you, you know, you, you look at that and it's like, Hey, I didn't, you know, I pursued that, but I didn't do it. You know, I pursued that and then I left it. I pursued that. But now you look back and it's like, wow, that was actually all played a part in me being who I am today. And now I can use that in a powerful way. And I think that's amazing. And I think storytelling and these long form stories, I think, I think you're going to do amazing at it. And I love the idea of it.

Heather Parady (27:49.548)
Huge.

Heather Parady (28:01.144)
Thank you.

Paul Povolni (28:03.006)
How do you relate that to calling? I know you help, you know, unconventional leaders find their What's that?

Heather Parady (28:09.32)
We like deep topics too, Paul. You like deep topics too, Lord Jesus. You're bringing it.

Paul Povolni (28:15.323)
I do, I do. Let's talk about that. Let's talk about unconventional leaders.

Heather Parady (28:19.66)
How do I relate my work to calling?

Heather Parady (28:27.256)
Hmm.

Heather Parady (28:32.308)
This is my answer for today and it might change next week. Lately I've been thinking a lot about being lit up and the power behind being lit up as a human. So I work with a lot of really awesome people who are very good at a certain skill set in my business. Our agency, we work with...

service providers, people who have spent years and years building a certain thing. And now they're trying to figure out how to translate that online, whether it's products or social or whatever.

without fail most will say, well, how do I, how do I do this? What's the right way? What's going to work? What's, you know, they're looking for a formula and there are formulas and they're awesome. And I'm all about tips, tricks, hacks, all that stuff. It's interesting, but that's not what moves people. What moves someone is seeing another human being lit up about something. We are drawn

Paul Povolni (29:37.982)
Yeah.

Heather Parady (29:41.804)
to passion and heart and conviction, even if we don't agree with it. You know what I mean? Because it's a hint towards what our human nature is, while we're here, the life, the essence. And obviously, when I went to the gym today with no makeup on and looked like a ragamuffin, and it was late taking my kids to school and all that stuff.

Paul Povolni (29:47.25)
Right.

Heather Parady (30:11.74)
I wasn't like lit up this morning, but I've been returning back to that thought over and over again of how do I stay in a lit up space and return back to my heart and passion and what I believe in because when I'm lit up, I'm operating in my highest calling. I am serving other people. I don't have to convince you of the right way of doing things. If I can have an encounter with you where I lift your spirit and being in my energy and my presence is an uplifting.

you know, thing, not talking about being positive, but I'm talking about like, damn, there's something lit up in her and I want to be lit up too. That's calling to me right now. So how do, how do I decipher? I feel like making these videos. I'm very lit up making them. I really am passionate about these topics. I love these topics and I don't think my editing is that great. I don't think my storytelling is that great. I'm out of focus a lot. I don't know if you recognize that because I moved quite a bit. Um.

Paul Povolni (30:46.127)
Right, right, right.

Yeah.

Paul Povolni (31:00.502)
Yeah.

Heather Parady (31:10.484)
But I think the reason they're hitting and making some kind of difference with people is because people believe me and it's refreshing. Um, so all that to say long-winded answer again, how do I wrestle with my calling right now? I think I'm thinking less about what is my quote calling on paper and thinking about, am I living in a state of passion and conviction and attached to something higher than me?

Paul Povolni (31:18.355)
Yeah, yeah.

Heather Parady (31:40.508)
And maybe I can't articulate what my job description calling is all the time, but you know I'm living in it when you meet me. And that's what I want.

Paul Povolni (31:50.302)
I love that. I love that. And, and you know, when it comes to, you know, that thing that lights you up, that thing that just, that you, you can tell when somebody is, is authentically lit up by something and passionate about it, you know, it in the entrepreneurial realm and in the, in the business realm, uh, you see a lot of people just pursuing the, the shiny objects, you know, and, and they don't really show a whole lot of passion and drive from inside. It's like, I'm following.

Heather Parady (32:03.604)
Yes.

Heather Parady (32:12.416)
Yes.

Paul Povolni (32:19.586)
This is the best new funnel. This is the best new AI. This is the best new whatever crypto this and whatever. And they're pursuing these things and nothing wrong with it. Go for it if that's who you are. But then you see the people that are in a place where they're in their passion. That fire inside of them is burning and they're just like, they eat, live, breathe this thing and they have a certainty about it and they have a fire about it.

Heather Parady (32:30.207)
Mm-hmm.

Heather Parady (32:48.568)
Mm-hmm.

Paul Povolni (32:49.854)
That is invigorating. And I think you're right. People are drawn to that. People, when they see somebody that's passionate and on fire around whatever topic it is, you are drawn to them. Because there's a certain level of certainty and confidence and fire that you're just attracted to. And I think we're naturally attracted to that. And so that could be both good and bad. And so when it comes to what you're pursuing and you're calling, you know,

Heather Parady (33:10.456)
Totally.

Paul Povolni (33:20.118)
I love the work you do with creatives. I love your passion for creatives. You're at heart, you're a creative. Are you doing all this editing yourself as well? Wow, awesome, awesome. Yeah, I'm doing all this myself. I don't enjoy it as much. I mean, I do it out of necessity. Yeah.

Heather Parady (33:29.248)
Yes.

Heather Parady (33:37.4)
I mean, I don't enjoy it all the time. I do have a VA who does like, I'll send her like cut one and she'll take out my ums in my spaces where I'm looking at my script or my kids yelling and I go downstairs and she does cut one. But then when she sends it to me, it's just, it's usually about two minutes. And then my goal is to bring it down to 60 seconds. And then I do all the other stuff. Thank you.

Paul Povolni (34:03.042)
Yeah, well done. It is so good. And I do encourage those listening to go check out Heather's work. It is really, really good stuff. So when it comes to, you know, the calling and, and the passion, when, when you work with unconventional leaders, when you work with, with people that are needing help, how do you help them get unstuck? Like, how do you help them with clarity and making, you know, the decisions they need to make?

Heather Parady (34:31.336)
A few ways, there's kind of like the internal work way, which back to your point about everything comes around, I let go of my therapy license, but I still do a lot of that. And then there's the tactical way. So the internal way, you know what I was talking about with passion earlier, I'm

Paul Povolni (34:41.029)
You still have the toolbox, yeah.

Heather Parady (34:51.032)
constantly trying to turn the head to the person and remind them of what they're doing again, because I had somebody the other day, who is in the middle of a big launch and she's super stressed about it. And there's all these different techniques. And she's like, how many emails should we be sending? And what's the right hashtags I should use? And which platform blah, blah. And she's like visibly shook. And I'm like, this launch is not gonna work out. Not because you're not doing the right things, it's because you're coming at it from an energetic place of.

Paul Povolni (35:09.39)
Hmm.

Heather Parady (35:18.588)
fear and defeat and panic and dread. And even if you do everything right, people are gonna feel that on you. And this whole thing, the essence of it, is not gonna work. And I'm not a manifesting blah, blah. I'm not in that, but I am about energy. And people either wanna work with you or they don't. So part of the internal work is turning her head. I said, the next two, three days, I don't want you to think about this launch at all.

I want you to remind yourself and get re lit up about this topic and why we're even here. Let's return back to that. There's a lot of element of that on the technician side. I do a lot of deadlines and that's it. We're launching, we're doing things. Indecision is such a huge barrier for visionaries.

Paul Povolni (35:51.73)
Yeah.

Heather Parady (36:12.576)
back to the whiteboard, or there's so many things I could be doing, which one should I do, that they just run in circles over and over again. So they sometimes need folks like me, who's not in love with them or not their cousin or whatever. And they're like, yo, Paul, you know, launch day is the 24th. I'm pushing, I'm hitting publish on this, whether you're ready for it or not.

Paul Povolni (36:31.788)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Heather Parady (36:37.845)
Because action creates clarity, you know, and I tell you about that all the time You're not going to figure out what something is until you do it and then it will tell you what it is, right?

Paul Povolni (36:40.125)
Right.

Paul Povolni (36:44.063)
Right.

I have the mug for that. Clarity through action. How's that? Ha ha ha.

Heather Parady (36:49.64)
Oh my god, we're besties. Do you know I quote that daily? That quote.

Paul Povolni (36:55.794)
Yeah, I got the t-shirt. Well, I'm wearing a different t-shirt today, but I actually created like a bunch of t-shirts that say clarity through action. Uh, sometimes. Well, I don't think I've put that. Yeah. I don't think I put those on the store, but I will, uh, cause people have asked about them, I've got a store called the Margo's.com for other stuff, but, um, but I will, I will put it up there and I'll share it with you.

Heather Parady (37:03.848)
Where's your store?

I'm buying-

Heather Parady (37:18.284)
Lord Jesus, Paul, I will wear that shirt in one of my videos. I love that quote. Seriously.

Paul Povolni (37:23.302)
Cause I've found this to be true. You know, I've done this for so long that, um, sometimes you just got to take action and then the clarity comes, you know, and, and so many people get stuck on perfect or stuck on, you know, I need everything aligned. I need that whiteboard needs a very clear path. And sometimes it's like, no, you just need to take action on this one thing.

Heather Parady (37:31.864)
Preach.

Paul Povolni (37:47.018)
And you'll get clarity and you'll know what that next step is once you do that, because you could have all kinds of ideas in your head and all kinds of plans. And, you know, I think it was Tyson, I said, everybody has a plan until they get punched in the face, right? And so sometimes that punch in the face comes early. Sometimes it comes late, but you're not going to get punched unless you get in the ring, right? And so, so talk to me, you know, you mentioned the whiteboard. So what are some things that you use to help people get

Heather Parady (38:07.768)
Preach.

Paul Povolni (38:14.542)
clarity when they're in that place that they're stuck and they're like, I don't know what to do and where do I go from here and who am I and what am I about? Where does all the experience, your creator, your therapist, your ministry, all of that, how does that come together to give them clarity?

Heather Parady (38:32.756)
I usually start with what's in your hand right now. So lowest hanging fruit and then building. So working with visionaries, they're usually, when I say visionaries, what I mean by that is people with big ideas, big heart, big vision, big passion for changing the whole wide world. Those are the people I roll with. I get them, I like them. But with having your head in the clouds, sometimes you miss the easy quick win at the top, you know? And I'm all about building momentum. So...

we need to start with something small and very, very achievable and build and build and build and build and build. And that goes against people's ego because they're like, I want the biggest brand in the world. I want everybody. You know, I want Joe Rogan podcast and yada yada. And I'm like, OK, but have you even posted to your Instagram in a month? You know what I mean? Like you're telling me that you're going to be faithful with something big when you are not faithful with something small.

Paul Povolni (39:21.131)
Yeah.

Heather Parady (39:27.86)
You know what I'm saying? Here goes the ministry stuff. I love that scripture. He who is faithful to the little can be trusted with the lot. Lock it or leave it. That's some wisdom right there. So what is the lowest hanging fruit right now? And are we being faithful and consistent? And then are we building from there? Also, too, really going slim and having less instead of doing more. I think that's really, really important because.

Paul Povolni (39:27.933)
Right.

Paul Povolni (39:35.362)
Ryan.

Paul Povolni (39:52.199)
Yeah.

Heather Parady (39:53.044)
We think we're limiting ourselves by not doing everything when really we're watering down our efforts and not building traction. When you can build traction in one area, you start building steam and you start building in cashflow and you start building in like a attraction and then you can start building out bigger teams. But if you start out of the gate with that, you're gonna get burnout, you're gonna get watered down and you're not gonna be as effective. So usually I come in and bust everybody's bubble cause they don't like that.

Paul Povolni (40:22.215)
Yeah.

Heather Parady (40:22.924)
But that's how you build something big.

Paul Povolni (40:25.614)
Right. Absolutely love that because yes, small wins. I love, I love that because yeah, sometimes you get just stuck in. I've got to have funnels and email sequences and chat bots on my web. You know, I've got to have all this stuff in place before I can get going. And, and so you, and you haven't even tested out if your idea is relevant or if it's, you know, you haven't even seen if the market actually cares about what you're doing. And so I,

Heather Parady (40:36.6)
Mm. Mm-hmm.

Heather Parady (40:49.496)
Preach it. Yes. Or if you like it.

Paul Povolni (40:55.654)
Yeah, yeah, exactly. Because you could launch it and you're like, this is nothing like I thought it would be, you know, and so, so then you're having, you've invested a lot of time and energy in doing something that you totally feel, no, that's actually not what I want to do, you know, it's not the kind of product or the service or the people or whatever. And so I love that, that that's part of what you do is, is yeah, let's start with some small wins, let's get some, let's get a, a phase one.

Heather Parady (41:01.533)
Totally.

Heather Parady (41:22.892)
Mm-hmm.

Paul Povolni (41:23.082)
Now let's get some foundational things and then let's see how that goes. And then we can add the other stuff, but you don't have to feel that you have it all in place before you launch that thing. And so, you know, where, when you help them with that launch, you know, you're helping them get unstuck, you're helping them move forward. What is the first thing that you find that they have to readjust? That they first, the first thing that really is a...

Heather Parady (41:28.952)
totally.

Paul Povolni (41:51.726)
a head smack to them that they say, Oh my goodness. Yeah, I didn't see this.

Heather Parady (41:58.648)
going narrow so you can go wide, especially in their messaging. And I internally hate everything I'm about to say. It is so annoying and unfun and whatever. I don't like it. It's...

It's true though, that when you're trying to build traction, you have to go super, super clear. I'm not going to say the word niche. I'm not going to say it. But honing in on one particular focus and being very, very clear. And I'm guilty of this too, where we go creative over clear. And so what I told somebody yesterday, I said, let's start with clear and then add the creative

as opposed to being creative and just seeing if we can decipher the clear. So if you think about, you know, a name that you have or a slogan or whatever, let's boil it down to the most basic clear statement that we can make and then come in and get creative with that. That hurts my heart and it's difficult, but it's just, I've seen too much data. I've experienced it too much that whenever I go narrow things build,

Paul Povolni (43:06.027)
Love that, love that.

Heather Parady (43:17.276)
It's creative restriction. If you think about it, we just need to reframe it a little bit, I think. Yeah.

Paul Povolni (43:19.046)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Well, I love that, that you need to get clear before you get creative. And I think that's a sign of creative maturity. Cause as a young designer, um, you know, it's as a young creative, it's easy to want to be super creative and, and do this and do that. And, and, but it's not clear, you know, you, you know, when it comes to designing a brand or designing.

You know, I remember as a young designer, you know, creating ads and it was super cool and like all the effects in Photoshop and you know, all of that stuff. And then, you know, it's like, yeah, but what's the message? Like, are they actually getting the message or is the, Hey, you forgot the call to action. Like, you know, I got, but I got, it was super creative and everybody was like, awesome. And I think, I honestly, I don't think it's a young designer thing. I don't think it's young creative because there are agencies that create stuff to impress other agencies.

Heather Parady (43:50.252)
Yeah.

Heather Parady (43:55.904)
No, no.

Paul Povolni (44:12.734)
You know, and to win the Addis, you know, um, to win the awards and they lose focus, they lose clarity of who am I helping? What am I helping them with? What is the purpose of this? All of the basic stuff. And so I think that is that that's really good that, you know, in helping your clients, you're doing that. You're like, let's, let's get clarity before we get creativity and, and we can always add the creativity, but unless we have clarity, we're going to miss the mark.

Heather Parady (44:33.632)
Yeah.

Heather Parady (44:43.32)
And it's all a reframe. It's all in the way that we look at it. Like I was just on a call with somebody who was very, very frustrated saying, I don't want to be niched down, blah, blah. And I'm thinking it's all in your perspective. You can look at it as somebody who's trying to suck the life out of you, or you can look at it as a really cool, creative challenge and a strategy to elevate, you know, your brand of like, ooh, step one.

I'm going to target this, this and say this, and I'm going to build some traction and then step two, I'm going to expand and do that. It's not a restrictive thing. It's actually like stepping on the gas because you're in control of something and you're guiding it. Versus just willy nilly throwing something out there and just hoping people connect with it, but total sign up Paul far forget, have you been to creative self?

Paul Povolni (45:30.018)
You know what I've wanted to and I have it on my list of places to go. Ah, nice. I saw you just spoke at that. That's amazing.

Heather Parady (45:35.42)
Yeah, I was, he said designer. I'm like, I was just, I was, you know, it's so embarrassing is I think I may have been, I may be wrong. One of, if not the only speaker who was not a designer. So my slideshow was shit and these designers get up there and it's like crazy animations and fonts. And like, I was just, I was like, Oh my God.

Paul Povolni (45:52.978)
hahahaha

Paul Povolni (45:58.739)
Yeah.

Heather Parady (46:01.056)
They're going to hate me. I got up there with like a Google slide with black and white lettering that just has one word on it. That's like, make. It was humiliating. But anyway.

Paul Povolni (46:02.656)
haha

Paul Povolni (46:07.23)
Yeah. That's awesome. Well, you know, well, sometimes simplicity is better than going all crazy. Cause you know, I think, I think that's where a lot of immature people, when it comes to, you know, even creativity, if they're not creative, they try and be creative and by trying to be creative, they go extra and by going extra, they show that they're not creative. And so I think sometimes the

Heather Parady (46:33.484)
That's so good.

Paul Povolni (46:34.726)
sometimes a better thing is go simplicity. If you can't afford a designer, if you can't afford somebody to make your stuff, instead of trying to be creative, if you're not creative, go simple, go clean, go smart, and it'll look creative. And so I think what you did was brilliant. I think just keep it simple, don't go crazy with it. And so what did you speak about at Creative South? Let me hear about that a little bit. What did you talk about? Okay.

Heather Parady (46:37.308)
Yeah.

Heather Parady (47:02.2)
short form video. So it was storytelling in 60 seconds. So the whole premise was kind of what we've talked about so far, which was creative restriction. I talked a lot about how going viral doesn't do anything necessarily unless he's built a body of work. I've gone viral multiple times prior to the chair series and my following never grew. I never got good connections. That never, nothing ever happened from it other than I have a cool story to tell that nobody cares about.

So I talked a lot about that and then we broke down kind of the essence of a video. So hooks, tension, building tension in the middle to keep people engaged and then good endings. And then at the end, I just wrapped it up talking about how this whole muscle of getting on the internet and putting your face and your voice out there is not a natural thing. It doesn't, people aren't more talented than you. They've just...

gone through the shit and did it anyway. Kind of like what we, you and I were just talking about. So that was the whole essence of the talk. Yeah.

Paul Povolni (48:09.122)
I love that. And short form video guys, I'm serious. If you want some, want to learn some stuff, want to see some cool stuff, check out, um, Heather's stuff. It's just amazing. One thing that you mentioned about the viral thing, um, that just popped in my head and, and let me, let me know what you think about this is, you know, you've gone viral several times, but is to me going viral is basically like standing up in a stadium and screaming at the top of your lungs.

looking weird, doing something, you get attention. Everybody looks at you for 15 seconds and then moves on because you don't have a plan beyond that. Right. And so I think, you know, with, with going viral, I think it's awesome. It's amazing, but it's that you, you got attention in a stadium and then attention moved elsewhere, um, unless you have some sort of a plan, you know, to do something with that attention. And so, um, you know, when it came to, you know, the viral stuff that you've done,

You said it didn't lead to anything. Have you changed strategy in, okay, next viral, here's what I want to do with that.

Heather Parady (49:13.096)
Yeah, so the viral videos that I've done before, I mean, my biggest one hit, if it did not hit 10 million, it was close to 10 million views. And there was a series that I did, I did a series of four videos and one went 10 million, the others were in like a million, whatever. There was just a lot of traction. I did a series called How Kids Get Out of Cars.

Paul Povolni (49:25.033)
Oh.

Heather Parady (49:43.168)
nothing happened. So if you looked at my other videos, I had podcasting clips, I had some weird sketch stuff, I was just kind of all over the place. So if you think about your own behavior, if you watch a video and you like it and you go click on that creator and they don't have other content related to that, you're going to ignore them, right? But if that person is screaming in the auditorium and then you see behind them, there's...

Paul Povolni (50:03.071)
Yeah.

Heather Parady (50:08.616)
a whole body of work of other things that they've done that are very, very similar to that. Let's say they're singing in that auditorium, and you're like, damn, this is a jam. And then you look and behind them is like a whole room full of other music and songs. You'll probably go follow that person. But if behind them is like them eating ice cream with Aunt Jana and their trip to Minnesota, and it's like this random, you're not going to follow that creator. So

Paul Povolni (50:16.649)
Hahaha.

Heather Parady (50:34.632)
What I do differently now, it's not that I don't want to quote go viral and my videos do well, but I noticed when I did Connor prices, that was the first video that went viral on this series. And I didn't, I mean, it wasn't huge. I think it's at 1.8 million. It's not like a, my biggest video ever, but that one brought in, I was at 5,000 followers and then I was over 25,000, 20, 25,000. It brought in, I want to say it was, I'm not doing their math right.

Paul Povolni (50:59.438)
Wow.

Heather Parady (51:03.984)
19 to 20,000 people within the span of a couple of months. And the reason is, is because they looked at the Connors video and then they went to my profile and I had 10 other videos that were in the chair. And they're like, oh, this is what she does. She makes these things. I like that. So all that to say, build a body of work and let go of going viral. And then when you do go viral, that body of work will reap benefits for you.

Paul Povolni (51:28.564)
Yeah.

Heather Parady (51:34.)
Even Jax, I don't know if you follow Jax, she does the Victoria's Secret song. I'm a Victoria's Secret. You don't, oh, you should look it up. It's great. It's bashing Victoria's Secret, but she's a musician and she made all these videos. Nobody watched it. It was all her music and one video did really well. They went to her profile. They saw all her other songs and now she was at Macy's Day parade, you know? Um, so she said, I'm so glad I did those smaller videos before.

Paul Povolni (51:40.696)
No I don't. Yeah, yeah.

Paul Povolni (51:58.704)
Bye.

Paul Povolni (52:03.91)
Yeah, that is so good. I mean, that, that alone is a good head smack for any kind of content. Creator is yeah. Create that body of work. Cause yeah, that, that one time attention that you might get, um, would last either 15 seconds and then people just move on because they don't see a. Trend. They don't see a habit. They don't see a consistency. And so they'll just move on. They just, okay, cool. That was awesome. Like.

Heather Parady (52:04.268)
when no one was watching.

Heather Parady (52:22.08)
Yep.

Heather Parady (52:30.735)
Yep.

Paul Povolni (52:31.986)
And moving on and I love what you just shared there. I think that's absolutely brilliant. So for the person, as we're wrapping up here, for the person that is kind of on that creative journey, you know, you had several things that it seems like the transition was crying between each thing that happened, but yeah, between, you know, for somebody that on a similar kind of journey or for a younger version of you, what would you tell them that, you know, they're in that place that you once were, what would you tell them?

Heather Parady (52:50.589)
I cry a lot.

Heather Parady (53:01.976)
Trust your instincts. Put your feet on the ground and be really still and listen to what your gut is telling you to do. You can trust it. I'm not a religious person anymore. I still do believe in God and I believe that there's something, I don't give a rat's ass what you call it, moving on our behalf and nudging us.

and just hinting towards us, but we're so busy and things are so loud that getting still and quiet and really tuning into that still small voice is so important and you can trust it and it's usually going to tell you something that's going to scare the hell out of you to do. But when you do it, it's not going to be as scary as you think. And everything is going to like...

I always picture the flashlight on the ground and you can only see the couple of steps up ahead of you, but until you move that light's not going to go any further. So trust it. Be around people who are as lit up as you or be alone. I hate saying that, but the normalcy of what is appropriate and acceptable in your life, you have to create that.

Paul Povolni (54:10.824)
Yeah.

Heather Parady (54:22.228)
people are like, oh, aren't you embarrassed to be on camera and do all these things? I'm like, no, because all my friends are creators and I hang out with creators and those are, you know, I don't hang out with people who think it's stupid. You know what I mean? So curate and be open to people, but have some have community who's pushing you. Yeah.

Paul Povolni (54:33.336)
Right, right, right.

Paul Povolni (54:41.354)
Right. Yeah. I think that's so valuable because yeah, it's hard to, it's hard to follow a vision where, where people are constantly, um, looking at it negatively, you know, and looking at it like, Oh, you're just trying to kind of get attention, you know, and, you know, and, you know, to keep going, if, if that's the people that you're around is tough because you're feeling, well, am I, is this prideful? Am I full of myself? You know,

Heather Parady (54:58.56)
Nope.

Heather Parady (55:07.968)
Yeah. Our friend, yeah.

Paul Povolni (55:09.49)
And so, so I think definitely changing that, uh, the, the birds that you're with, you know, the, the birds of a feather flocking together is changing the, the people around you and looking at, you know, who is actually adding to my life and who is actually sucking away my dreams, you know, and, you know, being around that type of person, I think makes a huge impact and finding those people that encourage you along that journey, I think, uh, is so valuable as well that say, Hey, I'm, I'm here for you.

Heather Parady (55:16.044)
What's that?

Heather Parady (55:26.605)
Preach.

Paul Povolni (55:39.522)
Um, don't fully get what you're doing and they don't even have to be in your space. You know, they could just be like, Hey, I don't get it, but I'm for you. Uh, keep going, keep going.

Heather Parady (55:48.091)
Amen. That's huge.

Paul Povolni (55:50.55)
Well, Heather, this has been amazing. I've really enjoyed this conversation. And so if people want to be a part of your world, if people want to connect with you, what's the best way to get a hold of you.

Heather Parady (55:54.497)
Me too.

Heather Parady (56:01.592)
Um, at Heather parody, P R 80 Y pretty much everywhere. I'm not, I know probably should be on LinkedIn a little bit more, but it's still just not my vibe. It's just not my vibe. I'm there, but most social platforms you can find me there and I'm pretty active.

Paul Povolni (56:10.294)
Hehehehehehe

Paul Povolni (56:17.198)
That's awesome. And I know we could probably talk creativity for another couple of hours. I absolutely love talking creativity and everything and maybe we'll do this again. And well, and I think you had mentioned about Creative South too, is that you were surrounded by designers and you're not a designer, but I think a creative is a creative, is a creative and you just express it different ways. And I love the creativity that you show, the stuff that you're putting out there. And I do encourage everybody to look you up and connect with you and follow you.

Heather Parady (56:21.084)
Oh, totally. I love it. I never get bored. Never get bored of it.

Heather Parady (56:34.55)
Yeah.

totally.

Heather Parady (56:42.476)
Thank you.

Paul Povolni (56:47.362)
And they'll not only learn stuff, they'll be entertained and they'll be enriched by it. And they'll get a couple of head smacks along the way. And so thank you. Thank you, Heather, so much for being here today.

Heather Parady (56:52.76)
Thank you.

Heather Parady (56:58.952)
It's been an honor. This was so much fun.

Paul Povolni (57:02.167)
Take care.